[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Jebby

What is truly amazing is the fact that what is currently being built, despite it's massive size, still leaves a huge amount of the property untouched.

This truly is massive.

It`s a mall: it has to be massive to be successful, only achievable because of the tall towers above the podium.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Vin

It`s a mall: it has to be massive to be successful,

No it doesn't. What makes a mall successful is quality, not quantity.

Originally Posted by Vin

only achievable because of the tall towers above the podium.

That will be one of the drawing points for tenants, along with the redevelopment of the area, relatively affordable prices (compared to CoV and Metrotown), and accessibility by transit.

[sburnaby33]

Originally Posted by Jebby

No it doesn't. What makes a mall successful is quality, not quantity.


That will be one of the drawing points for tenants, along with the redevelopment of the area, relatively affordable prices (compared to CoV and Metrotown), and accessibility by transit.

The quality of shopping experience at Brentwood will be hard to beat. You can shop and dine at the same time, or spend some leisurely time at the plaza.

There are literally 20 buildings in the pipeline in the area with the potential for, at least, another 50 to 60 buildings. The area is growing, and quickly, for the foreseeable future. Fulton House, Altus, probably Phase 3 of Solo, Milano, The Dawson, Porte, Concord, Escala, Brentwood 1 and 2, and Triomphe will all be completed within a year of Brentwood opening. Gilmore Place will follow shortly thereafter That is probably close to 6000 to 7000 residents moving into the area in the next five years. That should be a draw to future tenants of the mall.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by sburnaby33

The quality of shopping experience at Brentwood will be hard to beat. You can shop and dine at the same time, or spend some leisurely time at the plaza.

There are literally 20 buildings in the pipeline in the area with the potential for, at least, another 50 to 60 buildings. The area is growing, and quickly, for the foreseeable future. Fulton House, Altus, probably Phase 3 of Solo, Milano, The Dawson, Porte, Concord, Escala, Brentwood 1 and 2, and Triomphe will all be completed within a year of Brentwood opening. Gilmore Place will follow shortly thereafter That is probably close to 6000 to 7000 residents moving into the area in the next five years. That should be a draw to future tenants of the mall.

Add Lumina

[flipper316]

and yet only 3 faregates at the station. who's the idiot that thought that was a good idea?

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by flipper316

and yet only 3 faregates at the station. who's the idiot that thought that was a good idea?

Don't think it is fair to blame that idiot for putting only 3 faregates in year 2000. 16 years ago was more than sufficient. Brentwood has never really taken off even after the Millenium line, for 10 years always second cousin to Metrotown. Shopping Mecca always been Metrotown. Things are changing fast in the last 5 years that no one has anticipated. But yes It is time for review now. Hope Translink takes note.

[jamieson]

Has construction for Tower 3 started yet?

I got an email notification from Shape in October stating that construction will start on the first week of November but the area appears the same to me

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by VarBreStr18

Don't think it is fair to blame that idiot for putting only 3 faregates in year 2000. 16 years ago was more than sufficient. Brentwood has never really taken off even after the Millenium line, for 10 years always second cousin to Metrotown. Shopping Mecca always been Metrotown. Things are changing fast in the last 5 years that no one has anticipated. But yes It is time for review now. Hope Translink takes note.

Those three faregates are from a much more recent year than 2000, unless you meant that the proof-of-payment system was sufficient at that time.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Jebby

No it doesn't. What makes a mall successful is quality, not quantity.
.

Quality follows the quantity of retailers that can attract the shoppers. Small malls don't attract massive crowds. A one-stop-shop concept is important. Usually a mall with good anchor tenants like entertainment outlets such as a cineplex, a couple of anchor tenants, like department stores, or even supermarkets, are the most successful.

[jlousa]

Entertainment is not a good anchor case in point look to the retail turnover at Station square when it had 2 theatres, Intl Village, Riverport, Coq silvercity, etc. Destination retail is a good anchor and why landlords court those tenants with big incentives.
Brentwood will be fine but it will not be what some are envisioning of it.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Entertainment is not a good anchor case in point look to the retail turnover at Station square when it had 2 theatres, Intl Village, Riverport, Coq silvercity, etc. Destination retail is a good anchor and why landlords court those tenants with big incentives.
Brentwood will be fine but it will not be what some are envisioning of it.

It won't be the heart of Metro Vancouver's night life and luxury shopping?

Color me surprised.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Entertainment is not a good anchor case in point look to the retail turnover at Station square when it had 2 theatres, Intl Village, Riverport, Coq silvercity, etc. Destination retail is a good anchor and why landlords court those tenants with big incentives.
Brentwood will be fine but it will not be what some are envisioning of it.

This is a bad example/analogy.

The 2 theaters at Station Square (there were actually more than 2 screens at least) were already dying - along with the entire Square, really - by the time it underwent the renovation and had been on a steady decline for quite a while ever since Silvercity opened next door at the mall and basically sucked all the entertainment (or at least movie theater) business from the area.

Prior to that, yes, they were a big pull factor in attracting people to the shopping centers at the square since people coming to watch movies are more apt to visit the neighboring shops and stores either prior to or after the movie to pick up a few things or just browse.

Regardless they were already in a bad situation as besides Silvercity, you also had the Superstore downstairs and lots of other retail close by the theaters which made visiting Station Square a moot point.

At the end of the day it's undeniable that the adjacent retail units and eateries close to Silvercity DO benefit considerably from the walk-in business it brings, in the form of people coming to watch movies from outside the immediate neighboring areas suburbs.

[Genauso]

Anchor stores died the day buying full pages in newspapers advertising a sale stopped drawing crowds.

Sears, The Bay, Best Buy, etc. offer nothing extra. Their advantage was harnessing the hype of print advertising. But anybody can run a 1 day sale online, might as well cut out the middleman. The 'store within a store' concept is one step towards cutting out the middleman, but it's not the final one.

It's destination, with Nordstrom margins+service or Wal-Mart turnover+savings, or nothing.


Entertainment serves the same purpose as free & easy parking: it gets people to show up, and eliminates all other barriers for stores to make a sale.

A successful mall is a cluster of factors that reduce the barrier to making a sale, substitutes for spending on marketing by individual stores. The right mix of stores matters as much as anything already mentioned.

Station square lost because Metrotown was bigger or investing to get there, no? Growth begot better stores, and that would have been all the difference when they were in a winner-take-all competition for attracting the same crowd.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Entertainment is not a good anchor case in point look to the retail turnover at Station square when it had 2 theatres, Intl Village, Riverport, Coq silvercity, etc. Destination retail is a good anchor and why landlords court those tenants with big incentives.
Brentwood will be fine but it will not be what some are envisioning of it.

I did mention good anchor tenants, didn't I? Whatever happened in Station Square was already pretty run-down, especially since Metrotown was the pulling factor, and was a lot larger. Other examples you quoted are small malls in low-density suburbs, and therefore destined to fail.

And if not for Cineplex at International Village, the food court and many of the retail there would've closed shop long time ago. That was totally management problem, and skid row nearby did not help either. I wonder why you always harper on this failure, when you know full well newer large malls built in high-density neighbourhoods elsewhere would work. Put a Walmart inside International Village and see if it won't be crowded. Problem is, the mall is outdated and city policies don't help it either.

Originally Posted by Genauso

Anchor stores died the day buying full pages in newspapers advertising a sale stopped drawing crowds.

Sears, The Bay, Best Buy, etc. offer nothing extra. Their advantage was harnessing the hype of print advertising. But anybody can run a 1 day sale online, might as well cut out the middleman. The 'store within a store' concept is one step towards cutting out the middleman, but it's not the final one.

It's destination, with Nordstrom margins+service or Wal-Mart turnover+savings, or nothing.


Entertainment serves the same purpose as free & easy parking: it gets people to show up, and eliminates all other barriers for stores to make a sale.

Not all anchors stores fail. Winners, London Drugs, Superstore, T&T, Walmart, Shoppers, etc, are the new breed of anchor stores, and they thrive beautifully.


I wish the new Brentwood mall will get a person with international retail experience to run it. He/she has to decide on the mix of retail types to draw in the crowd. The mall is already more advantageous than many other malls in that it has the skytrain station right at the door-step, ready shoppers living in the vicinity and above it, and the fact that the facilities are all brand new. If it fails, it will only be one travesty: management style and non-creativity.

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by Vin

And if not for Cineplex at International Village, the food court and many of the retail there would've closed shop long time ago. That was totally management problem, and skid row nearby did not help either. I wonder why you always harper on this failure, when you know full well newer large malls built in high-density neighbourhoods elsewhere would work.

If you ever drove to International Village mall, the experience in the parkade was probably every bit as bad as walking from skid row. Just one of those parkades built on the cheap that is not usable if busy.

Should have tried to replicate a bit of Granville Island, get some young hipster foot traffic like the Woodwards redevelopment did later.

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not all anchors stores fail. Winners, London Drugs, Superstore, T&T, Walmart, Shoppers, etc, are the new breed of anchor stores, and they thrive beautifully.

I just don't think of them as anchors, they can and do exist as standalone locations successfully. They work hard to be the best, or near it within a large category. I referred to them as a destination.

I think of an anchor store as lazy, poor service, poor back office logistics, dependent on below market rent, etc. There may have been a time when they were glamorous and built great relationships with customers, but that's in the past. The Bay downtown is a joke that should just be closed, like their 70 year old escalators always are.



I don't foresee any problem at Brentwood. There's already a big whole foods and BC liquor store across the street that do well and some other street front retail. CostCo is nearby, between Lougheed and #1 Hwy. Skytrain. New residents, old residents who go to Metrotown today. Starting from scratch, the stores should fill up with growing brands that are willing to invest and make a go of it. Higher delivery costs have kept online sales at bay in Canada. The car dealerships south of Lougheed might even be redeveloped before long, to bring more retail/office/residential space.

[burnaby88]

First off, Brentwood is no longer a real shopping mall. It is sad and bleak, and just depressing. With no fashion stores, it is basically a London Drugs and a Sears with a smattering of Canadian chains like Bentley and Flight Centre, and some one-offs that are geared towards the Seniors population. And there is nothing wrong with a "Seniors" geared mall, there are a ton out there, this, in my opinion is not a nice place.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by burnaby88

First off, Brentwood is no longer a real shopping mall. It is sad and bleak, and just depressing. With no fashion stores, it is basically a London Drugs and a Sears with a smattering of Canadian chains like Bentley and Flight Center, and some one-offs that are geared towards the Seniors population. And there is nothing wrong with a "Seniors" geared mall, there are a ton out there, this, in my opinion is not a nice place.

It's worth noting (and has been discussed here before) that a large part of the reason that Brentwood mall currently looks so bleak is because most of the existing smaller tenants are running down their existing leases and not re-upping, either in anticipation of the mall renovation (to integrate it with the new plaza/podium when complete), or because a lot of their business has been undercut by the ongoing construction which has killed a lot of the foot traffic to the mall.

Some of them probably will come back, I imagine, although considering it will be quite a while before the first phase of the project (Towers#1-4 + the podium plaza) is complete allowing them to integrate it with the mall, it's probably more likely that more of them will seek tenancy elsewhere in the meantime and it will be a while before it's thriving and has full (or close to it) occupancy once again.

Furthermore, most of the people who use the mall or used to use it before, are probably aware of this and now do their shopping elsewhere - and I can't imagine that Shape didn't expect this.

Once the towers are complete and begin to get residents, (with the remaining phases of Solo across the street, not being far behind), I imagine the necessary foot traffic to sustain mall retail and shopping, will be back to healthy enough levels for them to get tenants back.

I don't think anyone involved in this project was under any illusions as to what was going to happen to the mall once construction began and given how long it's expected to take.

[SpongeG]

It's never been the same since Eatons left.
I worked across the street for years and it was a great place to grab a quick lunch or something at london drugs cause it was never that busy.

[GilmoreStation]

Will there be less buyers now that Rennie wont be in charge in marketing Brenwtood's tower 5?