ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[sevensixtwo]

in square brackets write img. then paste the image URL. then in square brackets write /img

[gttx]

A while back, someone here posted 2 images of Midtown taken from the top of Georgia Tech's Civil Engineering building - the first from the 60s, and the second from last year. They showed an incredible change in the city.

I'm wondering if anyone knows where to find these images, or if they happened to save them. I'd like to use them for something, but for the life of me I can't locate them.

Thanks!

[GThomas]

Atlanta board OKs plan for Midtown nightclub

By Eric Stirgus
10:03 p.m. Tuesday, October 6, 2009

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

A hotly contested plan to open a nightclub and lounge in Midtown Atlanta took a major step Tuesday toward becoming a reality.

The city's License Review Board voted 3-2 late Tuesday in favor of granting Alex and Michael Gidewon a liquor license to operate the nightspots in space they're renting at Peachtree and 11th streets. Mayor Shirley Franklin has 60 days to decide whether to approve the liquor license.

The Gidewon brothers hope to open before Christmas.

"We certainly hope [Franklin] will follow the recommendations of the board," said DeWayne Martin, the Gidewons' attorney. "We're pleased with the outcome."

Scores of Midtown residents opposed the plans, saying the club would bring more crime and excessive noise to a portion of Peachtree Street that is becoming increasingly residential. Skyscraping condos have popped up in the area, which many call the "Midtown Mile."

"I think having these clubs here is tremendously out of character with the direction this neighborhood is going," said Sally Flocks, president of a pedestrian safety group based in Midtown.

Others said they would welcome more nightlife in the area.

"I think Atlanta could use a little more of that mix," said Jenny Smith, who moved to Midtown 10 months ago.

In the end, the majority of the board said they found no legal basis to recommend against granting the liquor license.

About 100 people attended Tuesday's meeting at City Hall. The crowd was so large that the meeting had to be moved into the City Council chamber.

The Gidewons, who have owned and operated some of metro Atlanta's most popular nightspots, say they've spent about $4 million on their latest project. They owned Vision, a nightclub at Peachtree and 12th streets that closed in 2006.

Opponents cited police statistics they say showed crime in the area near Vision dropped dramatically since the club closed. Martin countered with police data of his own that 60 percent of crime occurred on days Vision was closed.

[tech]

The Gidewons, who have owned and operated some of metro Atlanta's most popular nightspots, say they've spent about $4 million on their latest project.

Wow, $4 million and you'd think they could do something to the outside of the building. Plus what about the risk of spending that money and not being allowed to open. As a Midtown resident, I don't mind nightlife (noise I do mind though), but I sure hope this doesn't derail residential developments in Midtown. It seems like with CB2 coming, we are the verge of launching a unique retail, dining, and arts district, could this hurt that progress?

[ATLBlaxican]

I don't think so. Plus wouldn't the retail component like CB2 have different operating hours than a Night Club? I guess it's kind of a moot point anyways seeing that the only step left really is for the Mayor's ok. We'll see...


In other news, I was kind of surprised to see that vendors have already moved into the newly built kiosks. I really like the way they turned out. I actually feel ok to buy something from them as opposed to buying a drink out of someone’s shady cooler. Also, the Decatur St. improvements seem to be rolling along quite nicely. I can’t wait to see the finished product. Does anyone know what they’re doing at the Suntrust building by Woodruff Park?

[cityenthusiast]

[pdpmishap]

Originally Posted by tech

Wow, $4 million and you'd think they could do something to the outside of the building. Plus what about the risk of spending that money and not being allowed to open. As a Midtown resident, I don't mind nightlife (noise I do mind though), but I sure hope this doesn't derail residential developments in Midtown. It seems like with CB2 coming, we are the verge of launching a unique retail, dining, and arts district, could this hurt that progress?

Maybe $1M for actual renovations and $3M for greasing palms?

I don't think it'll affect CB2 as much as the Loews Hotel. Staying next to a mega club may make it a draw for a few guests but I'd venture most people would like to be able to get to their hotel at night on weekends and possibly even sleep. Have a few bad traffic and noise incidents and watch its permits get pulled w/ the quickness.

$4M may seem like a lot but Selig, Daniel, et al have dropped hundreds of millions into that 2 block area and aren't about to let a bad neighbor ruin it for them on top of their already shaky investment.

[RobMidtowner]

I really hope the mayor stops this from happening. Isn't the whole Midtown Mile push to get new retailers, hotels, etc. that aren't in the southeast to relocate to midtown? How does a nightclub fit into this vision? This is the type of thing that could give Atlanta a bad reputation to prospective tenants.

This is not a good mix of land uses. And if you don't believe me, let's talk again in a year after the club opens and see what's happened.

[Atlantan26]

I officially give up on Atlanta! I'm moving! see Y'all

[boomtown]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

I really hope the mayor stops this from happening. Isn't the whole Midtown Mile push to get new retailers, hotels, etc. that aren't in the southeast to relocate to midtown? How does a nightclub fit into this vision? This is the type of thing that could give Atlanta a bad reputation to prospective tenants.

This is not a good mix of land uses. And if you don't believe me, let's talk again in a year after the club opens and see what's happened.

I agree. Seems like West Peachtree would be a better location than across from the Federal Reserve and brand new high rise development.

[citywalker]

The board that heard this case seemed to have almost no knowledge of Midtown, its character or the blueprint for a retail mile. They also didn't seem to understand or care what all the people were there complaining about. As someone who lived and worked in Midtown when the clubs were all there and now when they are gone I can tell you it is like living in a totally different city. You would think if so many people were there to oppose a liquor permit toting petitions, crime stats, council members and board members then something must be wrong. Don't count too much on Shirley to deny the permit, as I was walking to my car on the break at the meeting I spotted the mayor and councilwoman Anne Fauver having a discussion in the parking garage where Shirley said she disagreed with Ms. Fauver. I am not sure what all was said but it doesn't seem like they are on the same page since the councilwoman was at the meeting earlier to oppose giving Spi club its permit.

[popewiz]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

I really hope the mayor stops this from happening. Isn't the whole Midtown Mile push to get new retailers, hotels, etc. that aren't in the southeast to relocate to midtown? How does a nightclub fit into this vision? This is the type of thing that could give Atlanta a bad reputation to prospective tenants.

This is not a good mix of land uses. And if you don't believe me, let's talk again in a year after the club opens and see what's happened.

Let me direct you to this picture with Mayor Franklin holding Alex Gidewon's nephew:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/gidewon%20franklin/BlackPix2007/BlackPixV/atlfdn4.jpg

So, what do you think is going to happen?

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by popewiz

Let me direct you to this picture with Mayor Franklin holding Alex Gidewon's nephew:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/gidewon%20franklin/BlackPix2007/BlackPixV/atlfdn4.jpg

So, what do you think is going to happen?

that's interesting.

are there known/documented connections between the mayor and gidewon? i wouldn't be suprised if they exist, i know the mayor, or more specifically her in-laws have a history of dubious relationships, but i wouldn't automatically count this picture as evidence.

i have pictures of myself and relatives with various local and national political figures taken at charity events, civic events, etc.....they mean nothing.

just curious.

[ATLaffinity]

CB2 won't be hurt.

it's a nightmare for Loews.

it's a nightmare for 1010 residents.

[pdpmishap]

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/club_king/Content?oid=1027140

Don't know if this was posted earlier but it paints kind of a sympathetic picture of the Gidewons and Vision despite it's obvious problems while it was around.

I'm sure the Gidewons are connected to Franklin in that they've been generous donors but the question is how politically connected is Selig, Daniel, Metlife, and Canyon-Johnson (Magic Johnson) who have vested interests in maximizing value for those blocks when they've poured hundreds of millions in. A single violent or potentially embarrassing incident and the value of those buildings goes down far more than the Gidewons spent putting in Zebrawood and chrome.

In every condo I have ever visited in my drawn out search, adjacent night clubs have never been a selling point. If the condo boards have coronaries for unapproved patio furniture, how happy do you think they're going to be w/ event promotions plastered to their unused storefronts every week? I think SPI has a shelf life of a couple years max before it gets shutdown for running afoul of its fairly affluent neighbors. Velvet Room has plenty of angry neighbors but few have spent quite as much money buying their homes.

I counted 14 cop cars cracking down on Bulldog's after their Black Gay Pride Week celebration got out of hand. There was maybe a few thousand people massed in the parking lots near the club. Not necessarily their fault but I'm sure all the people that had to detour when they shutdown Peachtree were real happy. Make it a more than once a year occurrence and I'm sure you'll start seeing lots of opposition.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

CB2 won't be hurt.

it's a nightmare for Loews.

it's a nightmare for 1010 residents.

i agree.

however, there is a middle ground. midtown isn't vacant with empty parking lots like it was 10-20 years ago when backstreet and club anytime ruled, consideration needs to favor residents and businesses. i wonder how a fully occupied 1010 peachtree and the condo's atop loews might have impacted opposition or advocacy of the new club.

it's really the scale of this club that i find problematic. clubs with a 20K-30K footprint attract huge crowds that descend on entire neighborhoods and several blocks during peak periods, usually weekend nights and a few promotional weekday nights. there's no doubt that disturbances, noise and supposedly crime increases considerably with such a crowd.

heck, the size of crowd that these mega clubs attract isn't much different than crowds drawn to medium size sporting events. it's usually the mega clubs that sport the obligatory 'wait' lines running down the street which in turn create street ruckus and draw cruising to the neighborhood.

having said that, i think peachtree should definitely have nightlife, however, IMHO it makes more sense to limit size to a target 5K and a max 10K sq ft.

[mahanakorn]

Originally Posted by cityenthusiast

Hey I'm new to this someone please explain how to post images. When I click on images it just has a url for a website how do you post personal pictures?
Thanks

Maybe you'll find this thread helpful:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=168165
Look forward to seeing your pix.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

i agree.

however, there is a middle ground. midtown isn't vacant with empty parking lots like it was 10-20 years ago when backstreet and club anytime ruled, consideration needs to favor residents and businesses. i wonder how a fully occupied 1010 peachtree and the condo's atop loews might have impacted opposition or advocacy of the new club.

it's really the scale of this club that i find problematic. clubs with a 20K-30K footprint attract huge crowds that descend on entire neighborhoods and several blocks during peak periods, usually weekend nights and a few promotional weekday nights. there's no doubt that disturbances, noise and supposedly crime increases considerably with such a crowd.

heck, the size of crowd that these mega clubs attract isn't much different than crowds drawn to medium size sporting events. it's usually the mega clubs that sport the obligatory 'wait' lines running down the street which in turn create street ruckus and draw cruising to the neighborhood.

having said that, i think peachtree should definitely have nightlife, however, IMHO it makes more sense to limit size to a target 5K and a max 10K sq ft.

I agree. The nightlife that surrounds the Crescent street area is perfect for the area in my opinion. Smaller venues, but more of them. Creates more variety and atmospheres to choose from.

If they could just extend the Crescent st scene out onto peachtree that would be great. Considering Tap is already there on 14th, and Shout (or whatever) and the place in the W.

I guess the word I'm looking for here is "classy". I've yet to see a 25,000 sq ft night club that was in any sense of the word classy or worthy of having front row seats to what is supposedly atlanta's premier boulevard.

[popewiz]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

that's interesting.

are there known/documented connections between the mayor and gidewon? i wouldn't be suprised if they exist, i know the mayor, or more specifically her in-laws have a history of dubious relationships, but i wouldn't automatically count this picture as evidence.

i have pictures of myself and relatives with various local and national political figures taken at charity events, civic events, etc.....they mean nothing.

just curious.

I guess that's true, but I don't see that many where the political figure is holding someones kid in their arms. Maybe I'm overreacting to it though...

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by briantech

I guess the word I'm looking for here is "classy". I've yet to see a 25,000 sq ft night club that was in any sense of the word classy or worthy of having front row seats to what is supposedly atlanta's premier boulevard.

funny you mention 'front row seats'....based on an article i read in creative loafing, one of the features gidewon speaks highly of in the new SPI (or whatever it will be called), is the private VIP suites that will line the entire front of the club along peachtree.....supposedly each suite will be visible from the sidewalk through floor to ceiling windows......enabling those on the street to peer into the high rollers occupying each suites. hey, it's a cool idea, if i was in club marketing, i wish i would have come up with it.

but again, it's the location, i think this type of 'club marketing' encourages street activity, noise and an overall environment more suited for lincoln ave or ocean drive in south beach vs. what i think most people what to see along peachtree.

it's going to be a very interesting environment along the peachtree corridor in midtown over the next 2-5 years.