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  #1721  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 5:03 PM
homebucket homebucket is offline
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Ruh roh.

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Ford halts production and shipments of its electric F-150 Lightning due to potential battery issue
PUBLISHED TUE, FEB 14 202312:29 PM EST

DETROIT – Ford Motor has paused production and shipments of its electric F-150 Lightning pickup due to a potential battery issue, the company said Tuesday.

Ford spokeswoman Emma Bergg declined to disclose details of the possible battery issue, which is being investigated after a vehicle displayed a potential problem as part of the automaker’s pre-delivery quality inspections.

The stop-shipment order and halt in production was issued at the beginning of last week, according to Bergg. It adds to ongoing “execution issues” detailed to investors earlier this month by Ford CEO Jim Farley that crippled the automaker’s fourth-quarter earnings.

Shares of Ford were down about 1% in midafternoon trading Tuesday. The stock was trading for under $13 a share.

Ford has not established a timeline for when production and the shipments will resume, according to Bergg.

...

The F-150 Lightning is being closely watched by investors, as it’s the first mainstream electric pickup truck on the market and a major launch for Ford.

Automakers routinely have issues and recalls associated with vehicles but problems with batteries are of particular concern and interest, as the automakers invest billions of dollars in the vehicles.

One of the most notable issues has been with General Motors’ Chevrolet Bolt EVs. The Detroit automaker two years ago had to recall all of the vehicles built up until then to address fire issues caused by “rare manufacturing defects” at facilities of its battery supplier LG Battery Solution.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/14/ford...roduction.html
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  #1722  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 5:45 PM
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Ruh roh.
Competition is coming.
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  #1723  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 5:57 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Too bad for Ford. At least they are doing the right thing.
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  #1724  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 6:09 PM
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It looks like Ford will be shifting to a new battery supplier soon anyway.

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Ford to move forward with $3.5 billion EV battery plant with Chinese company
PUBLISHED MON, FEB 13 2023 1:45 PM EST

DETROIT – Ford Motor said Monday it will collaborate with a Chinese supplier on a new $3.5 billion battery plant for electric vehicles in Michigan, despite tensions between the U.S. and China.

The anticipated announcement of the deal between Ford and Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., or CATL, follows Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin saying he was withdrawing the state from a competitive process to attract the planned Ford plant over its connection to the Chinese company.

Lisa Drake, Ford’s vice president of EV industrialization, said the automaker will own the new facility through a wholly owned subsidiary instead of operating it as a joint venture with CATL, which several automakers, including Ford, have done with non-China partners in the U.S. She said the company will license the technology from CATL, including technical expertise.

“The LFP technology is already here in the U.S. It’s in a lot of consumer electronics devices, it’s actually in another OEM product, but, unfortunately, it’s always imported,” Drake said during a media call. “This project is aimed at de-risking that by actually building out the capacity and the capability to scale this technology in the United States, where Ford has control.”

Ford Chair Bill Ford said CATL will assist in getting the automaker “up to speed so that we can build these batteries ourselves.”

“Manufacturing these new batteries in America will help us build more EVs faster and will ultimately make them more affordable for our customers,” he said Monday during an event announcing the investment.

Ford declined to comment on the financial details of the licensing agreement with CATL.

The plant is expected to open in 2026 and employ about 2,500 people, according to the Detroit automaker. It will produce new lithium iron phosphate batteries, or LFP, as opposed to pricier nickel cobalt manganese batteries, which the company is currently using. The new batteries are expected to offer different benefits at a lower cost, assisting Ford in increasing EV production and profit margins.

Ford follows EV leader Tesla using LFP batteries in a portion of its vehicles in part to reduce the amount of cobalt needed to procure to make battery cells and high-voltage battery packs.


...

The new LFP plant is in addition to Ford’s collaborations with LG Energy Solution and South Korea-based SK, including a joint venture for twin lithium-ion battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky. Those plants are expected to come online in 2025 and 2026.

Ford plans to deliver an annual run rate of 600,000 electric vehicles globally by the end of this year and 2 million globally by the end of 2026. The company aims to achieve an 8% adjusted profit margin on its EV business by then.

The automaker said it expects to begin offering the LFP batteries in the Mustang Mach-E later this year, followed by the F-150 Lightning pickup next year. It will source those batteries from CATL, the company said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/13/ford...hina-catl.html
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  #1725  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2023, 7:30 PM
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Saw my first Rivian pickup on the road in Vancouver today.
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  #1726  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:30 PM
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Saw my first Rivian pickup on the road in Vancouver today.
Saw one as well. People actually stopped on the side of the road and took pictures of it. You'd think no one would be that enamored with a pickup truck but I guess word is out that it's the next hot electric brand...
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  #1727  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:39 PM
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Interesting. Guess it took you guys awhile to get them. They've been out here for a couple years now. I haven't sat in one but on the outside, they look really sharp. Def the best looking pick up trucks on the market currently.

Been seeing a lot of R1S's and Amazon EDVs as well.
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  #1728  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:52 PM
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Ruh roh. Looks like the hammer has come down. Was only a matter of time.

Quote:
Tesla recalls 362,758 vehicles, says Full Self-Driving Beta software may cause crashes
PUBLISHED THU, FEB 16 2023 12:49 PM EST

Tesla is voluntarily recalling 362,758 vehicles equipped with the company’s experimental driver-assistance software, which is marketed as Full Self-Driving Beta or FSD Beta, in the US, according to a recall notice out Thursday. Tesla will deliver an over-the-air software update to cars to address the issues, the recall notice said.

The FSD Beta system may cause crashes by allowing the affected vehicles to: “Act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution,” according to a safety recall report on the website of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The FSD Beta system may also have trouble responding appropriately “to changes in posted speed limits,” the notice said.

The group of affected vehicles included the following years and models: 2016-2023 Model S and Model X, 2017-2023 Model 3, and 2020-2023 Model Y vehicles equipped with or pending installation of FSD Beta.

CEO Elon Musk and Tesla fans have objected to the use of the term “recall” to describe safety defects or issues that can be fixed with a software update delivered over wireless internet. On Thursday, he wrote on Twitter, “The word ‘recall’ for an over-the-air software update is anachronistic and just flat wrong!”

Tesla lets thousands of drivers try new and unfinished driver assistance features on public roads in the U.S. through FSD Beta. The technology does not make Tesla electric cars autonomous, nor safe to drive without a human at the wheel ready to brake or steer at any second — despite the brand name.

Only Tesla owners who have the company’s premium FSD driver assistance system installed in their cars can join the FSD Beta program. That option now costs $15,000 up front or $199 per month in the U.S. Owners must obtain a high driver-safety score, as determined by Tesla software that monitors their driving habits, and maintain it to get FSD Beta access.

FSD Beta can best be summarized as a host of new features that are not yet fully debugged. The main attraction is “autosteer on city streets,” which lets a Tesla navigate around complex urban environments automatically, if imperfectly.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/16/tesl...e-crashes.html
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  #1729  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2023, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Ruh roh. Looks like the hammer has come down. Was only a matter of time.



https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/16/tesl...e-crashes.html
How exactly did Tesla get permission to let the public use beta software for the auto-drive feature?
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  #1730  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by svlt View Post
Saw one as well. People actually stopped on the side of the road and took pictures of it. You'd think no one would be that enamored with a pickup truck but I guess word is out that it's the next hot electric brand...
funny enough I saw one on the Gardiner in Toronto yesterday for the first time too.
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  #1731  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 2:04 AM
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More than 20,000 Canadian Teslas part of recall to fix 'full self-driving' system issues

Automaker also recalling nearly 363,000 vehicles in the U.S.
The Associated Press · Posted: Feb 16, 2023

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tes...nada-1.6751370

I wonder if it will happen in Canada as well

Biden praises Musk for promise to open 7,500 Tesla chargers to other EVs
PUBLISHED WED, FEB 15 2023

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/15/tesl...other-evs.html
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  #1732  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 4:42 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I wonder if it will happen in Canada as well

Biden praises Musk for promise to open 7,500 Tesla chargers to other EVs
PUBLISHED WED, FEB 15 2023

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/15/tesl...other-evs.html
Tesla is getting big subsidies for this. If the Government of Canada offered similar subsidies I'm sure they would.

3rd party fast charging seems relatively unreliable and frustrating for users. Tesla could easily become the defacto fast charging provider for all EVs if they wanted to make this kind of move.
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  #1733  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 11:04 PM
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3rd party fast charging seems relatively unreliable and frustrating for users. Tesla could easily become the defacto fast charging provider for all EVs if they wanted to make this kind of move.
It's true. Most Tesla owners I've talked to have generally reported seamless Supercharging on long distance routes. Long lines and waiting used to be the biggest problem, but never actual performance, reliability, or ease of use. And I think they've built a lot more recently so that is no longer an issue even during peak holiday travel season.

OTOH, I've heard of far more issues with other public chargers, where there's some difficulty with the connection, either with the charger or with payment, broken chargers, not charging at full capacity so it takes longer, poor ease of use, etc. It often adds more trouble to the experience than it should.
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  #1734  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2023, 11:13 PM
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I think people just want a charger that will work at 100% charging performance when you plug in the first time, sync seamlessly with your car and its preloaded preferred payment, so you don't need to do anything. Just drive to an open spot, plug, wait, and then move on.

How many people here have tried to pull into an open spot, only to find it doesn't work, and then as you go to park in the next open spot, someone else takes it?

I've heard of people going to public chargers that show there's an update being performed, and they go back 2 months later, and the same screen is showing that an update is occurring.

I think it's starting to shift from range anxiety to public charging infrastructure anxiety.

Quote:
Tesla dominates charging experience satisfaction, and that’s a problem now that it’s going public

Tesla is dominating the charging experience satisfaction among EV owners, and it’s going to be a problem for charging network operators now that Supercharger is going public.

This is a problem that needs to be put in perspective since most electric car charging happens at home.

Therefore, public charging issues mainly affect only a small part of the EV-owning experience, but it is still a problem that needs to be addressed.

When going on a road trip or traveling longer distances, public fast-charging stations are essential, and unfortunately, there is a wide range of levels of satisfaction based on the charging station.

We recently reported on a study that found that more than a quarter of surveyed charging stations were nonfunctional. This is a real problem.

Now J.D. Power has released its new charging experience survey to compare the satisfaction level based on different brands of charging stations, and it had some interesting findings.

First off, satisfaction went down overall despite the availability of public charging stations increasing significantly over the last year, which is one of the biggest problems with charging networks to start with: availability.

It wrote in the report:

Despite that more public charging stations are in operation than ever before, customer satisfaction with public Level 2 charging declined from last year, dropping to 633 (on a 1,000-point scale) from 643 in 2021, while satisfaction with the speedier DC (direct current) fast charger segment remains flat at 674. This lack of progress points to the need for improvement as EVs gain wider consumer acceptance because the shortage of public charging availability is the number one reason vehicle shoppers reject EVs.

The report highlights that one of the biggest issues for satisfaction is that the charging points actually function:

Public charger operability and maintenance a key issue: Growth of the public charging infrastructure is making it easier for EV owners to find public charging stations. The index for ease of finding a location is 724 among users of DC fast chargers and 683 among users of Level 2 chargers. But the industry needs to do a better job of maintaining existing charging stations. The study finds that one out of every five respondents ended up not charging their vehicle during their visit. Of those who didn’t charge, 72% indicated that it was due to the station malfunctioning or being out of service.

When breaking down the scores by brand, Tesla and its Supercharger network dominate the survey, and the last point about maintenance and keeping the charging station going has to do with it since Tesla is known for having a very good operation time compared to its peers in the charging world:

Tesla Destination ranks highest among Level 2 charge point operators with a score of 680 and Tesla Supercharger ranks highest among DC fast chargers with a score of 739.

From the survey, it’s clear that Tesla is actually bringing the average up with being the only charging operator over the average score:

https://electrek.co/2022/08/22/tesla...-going-public/
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  #1735  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2023, 4:10 PM
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In terms of L3 (fast charging), Tesla dominates in quantity and quality.

As somebody who wants to see EVs thrive, the other fast charging stations are an embarrassment. They have "McDonald's ice cream machine" level of uptime.
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  #1736  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2023, 5:00 PM
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Harper threw some decent cash at Via in the 2010’s so I don’t think they are super opposed to it necessarily, and it’s a privately driven infra project which is the kind of thing the cons like so I’m hopeful.

We’ll have to see.
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  #1737  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2023, 11:30 PM
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Canada has a goal of 50,000 chargers in place, but if you read the details you'll see that includes chargers located in private residential buildings and work places. I don't think our population is 10x smaller than the USA, and the geography covered is certainly not that much smaller.

Charging infrastructure is actually a common site on the west coast states in the USA, but outside of Tesla its still mostly just a smattering of options available here.
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  #1738  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2023, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
Canada has a goal of 50,000 chargers in place, but if you read the details you'll see that includes chargers located in private residential buildings and work places. I don't think our population is 10x smaller than the USA, and the geography covered is certainly not that much smaller.

Charging infrastructure is actually a common site on the west coast states in the USA, but outside of Tesla its still mostly just a smattering of options available here.
According to NRCan, there are 3784 Level 3 charging stations in Canada in 2022. I assume this includes Tesla and others. Tesla has the most, but also the most cars, and as they open up to 3rd party EVs, overall access should be equivalent.

50,000 sounds like a goal if virtually everybody is driving EVs. It seems a bit chicken and egg to me. Everybody wants more charging, but the business case to build them as a 3rd party is weak. Tesla has it baked into their vehicle cost and because nobody else has stepped up, it's one of the best selling features as well.

I can easily see a future where they dominate charging as a whole, if they open even some of their network up.
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  #1739  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2023, 1:22 AM
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I think it varies from region to region.

I have no complaints about Hydro-Québec's Circuit Électrique network.

Expansion overall would be good and even essential but even today it is pretty widespread and dependable.
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  #1740  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2023, 1:30 AM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
...I don't think our population is 10x smaller than the USA...
Approximately 11.8%, or one-ninth, based on 2022 estimates for both countries.
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