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  #1721  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
I bet you have never heard the French pronounciation of it...

"À mille tonne"

😜
I like it.

What about Oxbury (Hawkesbury)?
And Ayrst (Hearst)?

Don't they also say Allie-facks (Halifax)?
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  #1722  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 12:42 PM
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Beaubassin, one of the Moncton area forumers who never posts in the Canada section did this thoughtful analysis on potential future changes to the Moncton CMA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaubassin View Post
The Shediac POPCTR will likely be over 10,000 by the end of 2024, which will make Shediac a candidate to become a Census Agglomeration. Since it usually takes two census cycles before a Census agglomeration is created, it will most likely only happen in 2031 at it's earliest.

Here are some of my predictions regarding what will happen to the Moncton CMA.
  • The Shediac CA will include the newly created municipality of Beausoleil due to the manual adjustment rule (core) because a part of the core is within the CSD.
  • The Shediac CA will be short-lived though, because it will be instantly absorbed by the Moncton CMA, due to having an interchange rate over 35%.
  • Cap-Acadie will likely be left out of the Moncton CMA for a while, unless the Shediac POPCTR grows into it's CSD or it's commuting patterns change drastically.
  • Champdoré might be added to the CMA due to the forward commuting flow rule, although it's hard to tell without commuting numbers of the newly formed CSD's
  • The Community of Three Rivers will most likely be added to the CMA due to the forward commuting flow rule.
  • I'm not sure how the rural district is going to work out since it's all over the place

I made a quick sketch of what the Moncton CMA might look like in 2031:
The 2023 CMA population is estimated at about 178,000.

At present, the CMA has an annual growth rate in the 10,000-12,000 range therefore the current CMA population (June1, 2024) may be ~ 190,000.

If all these neighbouring municipalities get absorbed into the CMA (especially Shediac), I think the Moncton CMA would be more likely 215,000-220,000.

I personally think Cap Acadie will eventually be included as well. It is at the extreme edge of the exurban commuter watershed, and would boost the CMA population to 225,000-230,000.

Southeastern NB is the most densely populated part of NB.
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  #1723  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 2:30 PM
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With all that growth going on in the Moncton area, is the French speaking community decreasing right now?
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PROVINCE OF QUEBEC ==> 9 068 000
MONTREAL METRO ==> 4 600 000
QUEBEC CITY METRO ==> 900 000
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  #1724  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I like it.

What about Oxbury (Hawkesbury)?
And Ayrst (Hearst)?

Don't they also say Allie-facks (Halifax)?
What do you think of "À que ce beurre rit" and "À lit fait que ce"? (Ok those two are a bit exaggerated)

But my favourite will always be "Taux ronds taux"
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PROVINCE OF QUEBEC ==> 9 068 000
MONTREAL METRO ==> 4 600 000
QUEBEC CITY METRO ==> 900 000
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  #1725  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 2:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
With all that growth going on in the Moncton area, is the French speaking community decreasing right now?
Generally stable at about 1/3rd.
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  #1726  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalreg View Post
First number from 2023 mate. Second number is SREDA estimate for current year, 2024. North42's estimate is for 2024.

Apples and oranges mate.
Saskatoon and Windsor bickering about population figures is like two fishermen trying to one-up each other over who caught the bigger yellow perch... they both caught a tasty fish, but really, size isn't the thing to be gloating about in a lake full of pickerel and pike
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  #1727  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamincan View Post

Are you sure that CBRM was a CMA in the past? Since 2006, the rule changed from 100k in the core to 100k overall with 50k in the core population centre, which would be Sydney in the case of CBRM with a population of about 31k. It doesn't meet the core population requirement now, but it seems hard to believe it would have in the past as well, though I could be mistaken.

In any case, you can review the criteria on the Census Dictionary: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r....cfm?ID=geo009
I remember noting the downgrade to CA so it's rather troubling to contemplate that I imagined it. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find evidence of the downgrade online (including the link you provided) with no luck. The population of Cape Breton County was well above 100,000 for many decades before slipping below. Maybe I did imagine it?


1941 110,703 +19.7%
1951 120,306 +8.7%
1956 125,478 +4.3%
1961 131,507 +4.8%
1971 129,075 −1.8%
1981 127,035 −1.6%
1986 123,625 −2.7%
1991 117,403 −5.0%
1996 114,733 −2.3%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_B...y#Demographics
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Last edited by isaidso; May 29, 2024 at 5:12 PM.
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  #1728  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
What do you think of "À que ce beurre rit" and "À lit fait que ce"? (Ok those two are a bit exaggerated)

But my favourite will always be "Taux ronds taux"


Sudbury
Halifax
Toronto
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  #1729  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 4:55 PM
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I am quite sure Sydney (CBRM) was never a CMA. The city of Sydney is only about 32,000 and doesn't come anywhere near the 50,000 threshold necessary for a POPCTR. It never did.

Industrial Cape Breton was far more populous 75-100 years ago, but, the population was always scattered amongst a bewildering variety of small coal mining towns (Glace Bay, Dominion, Donkin, Reserve Mines, North Sydney etc) in addition to the steel making city of Sydney. The overall population at one point may have been 140,000, but there really wasn't a single dominant urban core.
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  #1730  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post


Sudbury
Ça'd beurré
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  #1731  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:15 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I am quite sure Sydney (CBRM) was never a CMA. The city of Sydney is only about 32,000 and doesn't come anywhere near the 50,000 threshold necessary for a POPCTR. It never did.

Industrial Cape Breton was far more populous 75-100 years ago, but, the population was always scattered amongst a bewildering variety of small coal mining towns (Glace Bay, Dominion, Donkin, Reserve Mines, North Sydney etc) in addition to the steel making city of Sydney. The overall population at one point may have been 140,000, but there really wasn't a single dominant urban core.
Yes, it's always been poly-centric and a collection of places. The time I'm remembering was in the 1980s. Didn't Statistics Canada change their criteria for CAs/CMAs back then?
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World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
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  #1732  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Yes, it's always been poly-centric and a collection of places. The time I'm remembering was in the late 1980s. Didn't Statistics Canada change their criteria for CMAs in the 1980s?
Not that I recall, but, I wasn't a city nerd back then.
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  #1733  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phone View Post
Saskatoon and Windsor bickering about population figures is like two fishermen trying to one-up each other over who caught the bigger yellow perch... they both caught a tasty fish, but really, size isn't the thing to be gloating about in a lake full of pickerel and pike
Your statement is true.
We just want to be part of any possibly positive news because we're accustomed to being forgotten about in the grand scheme of things.

The world outside of Toronto stops at London when you're down here.
People forget we're not actually part of Detroit.
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  #1734  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Not that I recall, but, I wasn't a city nerd back then.
I must have gotten this wrong.
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World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
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  #1735  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselXL View Post
Your statement is true.
We just want to be part of any possibly positive news because we're accustomed to being forgotten about in the grand scheme of things.

The world outside of Toronto stops at London when you're down here.
People forget we're not actually part of Detroit.
The same goes here. And I think it's okay to observe and comment on the jockeying that goes on among the sub-KWC "club" that debatably starts somewhere around Kelowna, but haughty infighting over tens of thousands of people that wouldn't even impact the overall rankings is just petty and inane.
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  #1736  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phone View Post
The same goes here. And I think it's okay to observe and comment on the jockeying that goes on among the sub-KWC "club" that debatably starts somewhere around Kelowna, but haughty infighting over tens of thousands of people that wouldn't even impact the overall rankings is just petty and inane.
Moncton says "hi"........
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  #1737  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I remember noting the downgrade to CA so it's rather troubling to contemplate that I imagined it. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find evidence of the downgrade online (including the link you provided) with no luck. The population of Cape Breton County was well above 100,000 for many decades before slipping below. Maybe I did imagine it?


1941 110,703 +19.7%
1951 120,306 +8.7%
1956 125,478 +4.3%
1961 131,507 +4.8%
1971 129,075 −1.8%
1981 127,035 −1.6%
1986 123,625 −2.7%
1991 117,403 −5.0%
1996 114,733 −2.3%


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_B...y#Demographics
According to statscan, once a place reaches CMA status, that status is retained even if the population later drops below the 100k qualification threshold. However, a CA can be downgraded.

"If the population of the core of a CA falls below 10,000, the CA is retired from the next census. However, once an area becomes a CMA, it is retained as a CMA even if its total population declines below 100,000 or the population of its core falls below 50,000."

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r....cfm?ID=geo009

I wonder if what you remember was media noting when the area dropped below the CMA eligibility threshold and therefore wasn't going to be upgraded in the future rather than statscan actually making a change to the CA status.
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  #1738  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Moncton says "hi"........
I'll scratch Kelowna and replace with Red Deer ... or maybe Cape Breton
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  #1739  
Old Posted May 29, 2024, 8:05 PM
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Ça'd beurré
Sad-berry. Kinda works ...
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  #1740  
Old Posted May 30, 2024, 10:25 AM
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The last population estimates from July 1, 2023 are interesting to look at, and I have been pleased to read all of this thead. What is even more interesting, though, is that after the (vast and expensive) consultation that were held a few years before last census (2021), which I have taken part of, Statistics Canada have decided to maintain its census metropolitan area delineation method, rather than update to a method that is becoming standard worldwide, the Functional Urban Areas (developed in collaboration with OECD and EU).

Basically, this method is simple : there are urban centres or "cities" which are defined as continuous built-up spaces. All the municipalities where most of the population live in that continuous built-up space are considered part of the "city" (in other words, the urban core). There are thresholds for size, which are based on the number of jobs, density and population of said cores. For example, the core of a functional urban area of greater importance consists of a conurbation of at least 50k population, 10k jobs and 1500ppl/sqkm. There are many sources online where you can find the detail for this method. There is then a threshold of 15% commuting between "cities". It a city sends more than 15% of its working population to another city, it is considered as a secondary "urban core" of this second city. You understand that there is no such thing as Hamilton, Oshawa, Abbotsford, Valleyfield, etc. with this method. Which is the interesting part.

The delineation method that is used in Canada for CMAs is pretty much unique worldwide, which limits comparisons when it comes to urban matters (public health, urban growth, urban sprawl, etc.) I am a researcher attached to the Urban development chair at UdeM. For most of our analysis, we use, for Canada, the data for Functional Urban Areas (Aires d'attraction des villes en français). We can therefore do some comparisons with european cities, for example. We work closely with Statistics Canada : they provide us with the granular data (ex.: census blocks, attributes, etc., which are all public by the way), and mostly, the number of jobs by census block.

Anyway, as we keep track of this data, I thought I'd share it with you, in order to add another perspective when it comes to comparing urban areas in Canada. I will be glad to answer your questions, even though demographics is not my field of study - I work in environmental geography, landscape and cultural heritage. I may have to ask colleagues before being able to come back to you.


So, according to the July 1st 2023 estimates that were released recently, Canada's main Functional Urban Areas are :

Position. Population. Name

Code:
1.   8 854 488   Toronto, ON
2.   4 925 560   Montréal, QC
3.   3 342 027   Vancouver, BC
4.   1 787 183   Calgary, AB
5.   1 745 823   Ottawa / Gatineau, ON/QC
6.   1 597 116   Edmonton, AB
7.   1 005 982   Québec, QC
8.     998 548   Winnipeg, MB
9.     683 300   Kitchener / Cambridge / Waterloo, ON
10.    682 528   London, ON
11.    552 728   Halifax, NS
12.    453 695   Victoria, BC
13.    441 736   St. Catharines / Niagara Falls, ON
14.    434 729   Windsor, ON
15.    371 640   Saskatoon, SK
16.    291 198   Sherbrooke, QC
17.    290 871   Regina, SK
18.    253 027   St. John's, NL
19.    246 789   Kelowna, BC
20.    240 197   Moncton, NB
21.    235 600   Kingston, ON
22.    214 141   Guelph, ON
23.    213 244   Trois-Rivières, QC
24.    204 585   Red Deer, AB
25.    192 723   Sudbury, ON
26.    182 072   Saguenay, QC
27.    171 685   Belleville / Trenton, ON
28.    154 156   Lethbridge, AB
29.    152 330   Fredericton, NB
30.    151 501   Peterborough, ON
31.    149 516   Nanaimo, BC
32.    146 943   Saint John, NB
33.    132 733   Kamloops, BC
34.    131 212   Thunder Bay, ON
35.    129 190   Drummondville, QC
36.    122 182   Granby, QC
37.    116 452   Sarnia, ON
38.    113 755   Charlottetown, PE
39.    113 238   Chatham-Kent, ON
40.    111 033   Sydney (Cape Breton), NS
41.    104 789   Joliette, QC
42.    101 444   North Bay, ON
43.    100 484   Saint-Hyacinthe, QC
44.    100 006   Grande Prairie, AB
A few remarks :
  • There is a problem with the inconsistency of census subdivisions, espacially in BC and AB, where immense municipal districts create municipal enclaves within them. The urban areas in these 2 provinces, especially Alberta, tend to grow add no municipality for a few censuses, and then add like 10 or 15 in one census, because the sum of commuting worker for a whole municipal district and all of its enclaves combined reaches 15%. The same problem is experienced with the official Statistics Canada method.
  • The Toronto FUA (functional urban area) comprises Hamilton, Oshawa, Barrie, Milton and Brantford, which are all secondary cores of category A. The statiscal "city" of Brantford sends 15,33% of its working population to Toronto and adjacent municipalities.
  • In Vancouver, Abbotsford (A), Mission (C) and Chilliwack (B) are all considered as secondary cores.
  • For Montreal, Saint-Jérôme (A), Salaberry-de-Valleyfield (B) and Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (B) are also considered as secondary cores. Saint-Hyacinthe, Sorel and Joliette are not close to become secondary cores.
  • Outside of the larger 3 agglomerations, we note that Shawinigan, QC is only at 1,01% of commuting to becoming a secondary core to Trois-Rivières. We consider them separate for now. It is also interesting that Louiseville, a C-category "city", is now at 13.7% commuting to Trois-Rivières. But outside of the suburban world, these stats tend to take time to increase, and honestly, we would prefer not to see it happen.
  • Sainte-Marie, QC sends 13.21% of its working force to Québec, QC. Seeing the growth of this rate in the last 2 censuses, the "city" should join QC in 5 or 10 years.
  • Airdrie, AB, is a secondary core to Calgary (46% of commuting)
  • Guelph, ON, is closer to be added to the FUA of Toronto (8,7% of commuting) than it is to join KCW (4,0% of commuting). Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo is not even close to join Toronto either (3.64% of commuting); it is still fairly independent.
  • Vernon, BC and Kelowna are not close to merge.
  • Cobourg, ON will not likely be integrated soon to Toronto, but it is getting closer (11% commuting). So is Midland (11% also). Brighton could eventually be integrated to Belleville-Trenton, but is not close enough for now (10.5%).
  • Alma, QC could eventually join Saguenay, but it will take some time (understand : decades) (11% commuting). If Sorel grows more, it could also eventually be added to Montreal, but recent trends suggest otherwise (10%). Same goes for Coaticook to Sherbrooke (10.3%), and Cowansville to Granby (10%).
  • Shediac is already integrated into the Moncton FUA (44% commuting for the combined town and parish).

I hope it was informative. Don't forget : these are all just stats, and they mostly are useful to compare apples to apples. This is not a popularity contest or an indicator of greatness.

Last edited by Laceoflight; May 30, 2024 at 10:40 AM.
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