Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[MonctonRad]

I like that location for a soccer specific stadium quite a bit.

It's a good use of the land, and a small stadium there fits in quite well.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Staying on the Halifax front:



http://canpl.ca/video/welcome-to-the...x-wanderers-fc

Part of the allure is its simplicity, which, in many ways, lends itself to the 6,500-seat Wanderers Grounds becoming quite boisterous on CPL Matchdays.

“It’s been one of our key focus points, to create an intimate and unique venue that’s soccer specific,” Martin said of a stadium that’s just a short distance from the city’s picturesque Harbour.

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc. Start small, let it grow...

[q12]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc.

Not without expropriating the Museum of Natural History next to it.

[q12]

Must watch interview with Anthony Leblanc today.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1527658

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Can they squeeze another ten thousand seats on to that property?

This is what I would prefer: a cozy, charming little stadium, minimal investment (at first), a university football feel, etc. Start small, let it grow...

I imagine the limit to Wanderers is 10K or so. I can't imagine council would let them have any more on the property but you never know. Feasibly I believe q12 is correct, the museum gets in the way of any further expansion beyond corner-filling and larger end stands.

[MonctonRad]

I would keep the Wanderers Grounds as a cozy soccer specific stadium with 10,000 seats or so.

[JHikka]

Via Global:

"Dubé said on Tuesday that the municipality is not interested in helping with the operating and maintenance costs of a potential stadium. It was a statement echoed by many councillors, who said they would vote down any proposal that saw operating and maintenance costs be footed by the municipality. Instead, staff said that they are recommending the use of a Tax Incremental Financing (TIF) model."

Which clarifies that at least.

So MFLP is looking for government money, they would carry the debt and own the stadium, and be on the hook for maintenance and operating?

"The CAO also revealed that Maritime Football have been talking to SMU and Dal and are looking at making the stadium a full-time ice surface in the winter as well as other partnership possibilities."

SMU and DAL seem like no-brainers. Curious how the field would hold up with an ice surface on it all winter and how often that would be utilized and how much revenue that would generate.

[Mrs Sauga]

There isn't a plot of land closer to the downtown for the CFL stadium?

[Nouvellecosse]

Is it really normal for cities to have large vacant or under-utilized plots of land close to downtown? I'd say it's pretty lucky for them to find something as close as that.

[Nouvellecosse]

It takes me 2 hours to go from my place in Dartmouth (near the highway) to the Amherst, and about 45 min from Amherst to the Champlain place area. I'm pretty sure it took me longer to get to Saint John from Amherst than it does Amherst to Moncton, so definitely much more than 4:05. But I almost never exceed 110km/h (usually more like 100) for fuel efficiency reasons. But 90% of other traffic passes me and usually at much higher velocities so I'm sure most people get places much quicker.

[Hali87]

Basically a realistic breakdown at any given game would be about:

10% of spectators from NB
10% from Cape Breton
10% from PEI and rest of NS (about 8 of this 10% would be people within a 1.5 hour of the stadium under normal traffic)
5% visitors from the RoC
5% visitors from outside Canada
60%+ from HRM (including students, sailors posted there, etc.)

It's possible that these numbers are a bit off but the idea is that the vast majority of fans at any given game would be people from Halifax and places within a short drive. People from places like CB, NB and PEI I could see checking out maybe a few games per season, or Finals/Grey Cup, but I don't think anyone is expecting people to drive from Charlottetown or Bathurst for every home game.

[Taeolas]

The Toll would not be a factor for NBers going to see a game in Halifax. It's only a few bucks, and if you're already heading to Halifax, it would be a trivial additional cost.

I think what might be a bigger factor is how fast they can get a team together and playing. One of the proposals I've heard in the past (that may or may not be done now) is that Halifax's new team would actually start playing in Moncton for a season or two while the Halifax stadium is built.

To me (and admittedly I don't know if this is what really happens or not) but to me, this feels like a good idea. It helps establish the team as a regional team in the early years. It may not get as many Halifax fans right off the bat, but it establishes a fanbase in NB and PEI that would be more likely to follow it once it shifts to its new home in Halifax. Moncton being a smaller stadium for it in those early years would help it have a higher %-filled stats too (even if the total numbers are lower).

As a Freddy Beacher, I can attest that Halifax is only ~4hours away. Maybe not close enough to consider a weekday game, but if I was a sports fan, a weekend game would certainly be on the radar. I haven't been to Halifax in a long time personally; but that's due to not having a reason to head to Halifax, and not because of how far away it is. And I know many others who do visit Halifax regularly.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I think what might be a bigger factor is how fast they can get a team together and playing. One of the proposals I've heard in the past (that may or may not be done now) is that Halifax's new team would actually start playing in Moncton for a season or two while the Halifax stadium is built.

To me (and admittedly I don't know if this is what really happens or not) but to me, this feels like a good idea. It helps establish the team as a regional team in the early years. It may not get as many Halifax fans right off the bat, but it establishes a fanbase in NB and PEI that would be more likely to follow it once it shifts to its new home in Halifax. Moncton being a smaller stadium for it in those early years would help it have a higher %-filled stats too (even if the total numbers are lower).

The CFL commissioner and the Halifax ownership group did meet Mayor Dawn Arnold and Premier Brian Gallant to discuss the possibility of the new team playing at the Moncton Stadium for 1-2 years - Mayor Arnold said as much.

I think both Arnold & Gallant were on board, but upgrades to the Moncton Stadium would be necessary, which could be reasonably expensive (several million dollars at least).

I don't know the current status of this possibility but the chaos around the recent NB election and the probable replacement of Brian Gallant by Blaine Higgs will likely put the kibosh to this, given how parsimonious Higgs seems to be. I can't imagine him forking over millions of dollars to upgrade the Moncton Stadium for a temporary tenant.......

[FFX-ME]

Instead of speculating what the distance that is within range is use this website to determine it:

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/

60 mins (pop of about 530k)


90 mins (population of about 580k within driving distance)

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Instead of speculating what the distance that is within range is use this website to determine it:

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/

60 mins (pop of about 530k)


90 mins (population of about 580k within driving distance)

Within this 60 - 90 minute range is where pretty well all the season ticket holders will originate from - ideally 16,000 - 18,000 of them. When this season ticket drive begins I hope one of the conditions with the deposits would be 3-5 year commitments for seats and 5 - 10 year commitments for suites. This provides some medium term certainty in an unproven market.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Instead of speculating what the distance that is within range is use this website to determine it:

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/

60 mins (pop of about 530k)


90 mins (population of about 580k within driving distance)

In comparison to my earlier post here is the data for Regina:

60 mins (pop of about 280k)


90mins (population of about 310 k within driving distance)


So the market for Halifax, if it catches on like it has in Saskatchewan, will be about twice the size as that of Regina. If you count Saskatoon then you should really count Moncton for Halifax and again Halifax has the larger market.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

In comparison to my earlier post here is the data for Regina:

60 mins (pop of about 280k)


90mins (population of about 310 k within driving distance)


So the market for Halifax, if it catches on like it has in Saskatchewan, will be about twice the size as that of Regina. If you count Saskatoon then you should really count Moncton for Halifax and again Halifax has the larger market.

Funny, my maps when I tried it are different for Regina.

[esquire]

^ The Ticats spent a year playing at Alumni Stadium in Guelph while THF was being built... Moncton's stadium looks more capable of handling pro football than Guelph's was.

But that said, I think there is some value in getting things started off on the right foot. Doing a kind of half assed season where everything is in flux with temporary everything is not really the ideal way to start. Personally I think the team should start playing only once their facility is built and ready.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

But that said, I think there is some value in getting things started off on the right foot. Doing a kind of half assed season where everything is in flux with temporary everything is not really the ideal way to start. Personally I think the team should start playing only once their facility is built and ready.

Agreed. Everything about a CFL team playing in Moncton seems temporary and half-assed. Seems difficult for a team to find a good base and momentum when they're moving three hours away in a year or two. Difficult to get a lot of people committed locally when they're not going to be immediately attached to the market.

I would understand the team playing out of Truro or Lunenburg or something but Moncton seems a bit of a stretch.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Agreed. Everything about a CFL team playing in Moncton seems temporary and half-assed. Seems difficult for a team to find a good base and momentum when they're moving three hours away in a year or two. Difficult to get a lot of people committed locally when they're not going to be immediately attached to the market.

I would understand the team playing out of Truro or Lunenburg or something but Moncton seems a bit of a stretch.

Truro or Lunenburg don't have a venue.

I understand what you mean about difficulty in getting people invested in the team in Moncton if they are only there for a year or two but if the ownership group were to make a firmer commitment to the city (training camp, exhibition games etc) on an ongoing basis, I think it could be different.

Regardless, I doubt that it will happen.........