Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[officedweller]

Well, arguably, there will always be a crime more serious than any minor infraction (including any traffic violations, such as speeding or running red lights) - so if efforts will always be deployed to serious crimes (i.e. murder) and not to enforce minor violations, why even have the other laws to begin with? They would end up like property crimes are treated, i.e. the police won't try to investigate a stolen bike.
It's also like the HOV lane - if it's not enforced people will abuse it.

[tybuilding]

Mia Birk: Joyriding on January 26
JANUARY 10, 2011
by pricetags
You can now reserve a space for the Mia Birk lecture on January 26 at SFU Harbour Centre.

Mia Birk, now head of an advisory planning firm in Portland, is author of Joyrideedaling Toward a Healthier Planet.



JOYRIDING: Mia Birk on transformative cycling

Can bicycling and walking really help bring our world back from the brink? Mia Birk, an award-winning bicycle transportation planner, shows how in less than a generation a team of visionaries turned Portland into a city in which people can and do choose bicycling as a normal, everyday means of transportation.

Register Me:
Yes
Registrant(s)/Capacity:
146/200
Start Time:
January 26, 2011, 7:00 pm
End Time:
January 26, 2011, 10:00 pm
Where:
1400 Harbour Centre
515 West Hastings V6B 5K3
Cost:
Free
http://cgi.sfu.ca/~hccweb/cgi-bin/On...ail.php?id=204
http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2011/...on-january-26/

[geoff's two cents]

Thought the 2005 data in this article relevant: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2011/01/m...-work-commute/

I was frankly amazed to see that Vancouver has the lowest average commuter time among Canada's three major cities, and that it's not even that much more than other Canadian cities about half the size. This is particularly surprising given the maturity of Toronto's freeway (and GO transit) system, which even freeway naysayers like myself would probably expect to exert some downward pressure on commuting times.

Since 2005, my hunch is that the Canada Line has lowered commuting times significantly, the bike lanes on Hornby and Dunsmuir have (for the time being) raised them slightly, and that the new Port Mann bridge will lower them yet again.

Thought this might help put our discussions about transportation infrastructure (bike lanes and viaducts) in perspective, as well as mitigate the oft-stated worry that decentralization in the form of regional, transit-centred town centers is a bad thing. For some reason, especially given our challenging geography, it appears Vancouver and its metro area are doing something right.

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

Thought the 2005 data in this article relevant: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2011/01/m...-work-commute/

I was frankly amazed to see that Vancouver has the lowest average commuter time among Canada's three major cities, [...]

Since 2005, my hunch is that the Canada Line has lowered commuting times significantly, the bike lanes on Hornby and Dunsmuir have (for the time being) raised them slightly, and that the new Port Mann bridge will lower them yet again.

[...].

Well,for the Port Mann Bridge that could be true in the short term, the effect on commuting time could be revisited a quarter century later.

What will probably happen is that there is an acceptable threshold for commuting time for people when they invest in some place (people trade time for living space).
and eventually in Fraser Valley, like along the 404, the increase in capacity of the highway will translate in longer commute in km (urban sprawl) and at some point the risk is to be back to square One (like we have perpetually seen in Toronto): just that congestion will be on 10 lanes instead of 5.

What Vancouver had certainly done right is that most of the transportation investments done in the last 25 years, always carry people in the same amount of time in 2010, like they did in 2000, or in 1986 (in fact due to freqeuncy increase, commute time has improved), and lack of investment in other infrastructure providing commute time depending of traffic (road) has prevented a degradation on this front (since in fact the traffic is toping on most of the bridge for 10 years now, and even decreasing in DT Vancouver)

That is probably what Vancouver has did right, up to recently...

[Metro-One]

Again the black and white view....

Traffic flow is not only determined by the number of lanes. The number 1 had terrible interchange designs and the new designs are far superior for traffic flow and safety.

Also, the new Port Mann is split into a C/D system so those wishing to only use the #1 from Surrey 152nd to Coquitlam (lougheed) do not have to enter the #1 through lanes, so essentially the new Port Mann is not one major road artery, but 2.

Also, the new Port Mann will finally allow us to properly incorporate a rapid bus system and proper biking / pedestrian shoulders (for example biking and walking over the Golden Ears with its wide separated shoulders is quite enjoyable). So it is more than just for SOVs.

Also, i think costing near 7 dollars a day to use will also prevent it from being clogged too fast after completion

[SpikePhanta]

Anyways the Hornby bike lane seems to be doing well, even during the rain, very busy.

But the past week I saw three different people, on different days on scooters using the dunsmuir bike lane!!!! lololol

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Again the black and white view....

Traffic flow is not only determined by the number of lanes. The number 1 had terrible interchange designs and the new designs are far superior for traffic flow and safety.

Also, the new Port Mann is split into a C/D system so those wishing to only use the #1 from Surrey 152nd to Coquitlam (lougheed) do not have to enter the #1 through lanes, so essentially the new Port Mann is not one major road artery, but 2.

Not sure why you think it is a black and white view...
and I don't state that traffic flow is determined by the number of lanes either.
May be you would like bring forward some examples of road infrastructure expansion/improvment which have definitely resolved congestion issue in the long term in growing economies.

Also, the new Port Mann will finally allow us to properly incorporate a rapid bus system and proper biking / pedestrian shoulders (for example biking and walking over the Golden Ears with its wide separated shoulders is quite enjoyable). So it is more than just for SOVs.

People are free to believe fables from their government.
I don't believe in Santa Claus neither in the government story telling, you don't need a new bridge to have a rapid transit, like you don't need a new Tunnel at George Massey to improve the transit/biking there... If it was for bike/pedestrian or bus, it was certainly possible to accomodate them without throwing $3 billions of taxpayer dollars ...let's be clear here: The Port Mann Bridge/HW1 project is for SOV and only SOV...all other claims are results of doctor spinning.

And if you have any doubt, you should read http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/S...169/story.html

Also, i think costing near 7 dollars a day to use will also prevent it from being clogged too fast after completion

yep, if that is the solution to regulate congestion, and I believe it is one (see http://voony.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/bridge-traffic ) you don't need a new bridge, you can just implement a toll right now!

and sure commuter time will decrease

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

Anyways the Hornby bike lane seems to be doing well, even during the rain, very busy.

But the past week I saw three different people, on different days on scooters using the dunsmuir bike lane!!!! lololol

Are you sure they weren't electric bikes? They often have pedals attached to qualify. That being said I love when motorcycles park in the bike spots.

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Are you sure they weren't electric bikes? They often have pedals attached to qualify. That being said I love when motorcycles park in the bike spots.

I'm pretty sure they weren't, I am certain one was a vespa.

[madmigs]

Interesting article from across the pond about bike lanes - http://inhabitat.com/londons-bike-su...thoroughfares/

[whatnext]

BMW spotted using bike-only lane:
http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/Hon...198/story.html

Let me assure all SSPers I am not an honorary consul!

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Vonny

yep, if that is the solution to regulate congestion, and I believe it is one (see http://voony.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/bridge-traffic ) you don't need a new bridge, you can just implement a toll right now!

and sure commuter time will decrease

The problem with that is that it will be immensely politically unpopular and any future tolling proposals would be kryponite for any government and not implemented. Realistically, i suspect people will 'buy into' tolling more if they see that they get improved infrastructure at the same time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I saw the backlash for the HST, which IMO is a good public policy but poorly understood with lots of spin from grassroots opposition and currently unpopular. Even the carbon tax is under siege now.

[officedweller]

From the Courier:

Department for pedestrians on the horizon

By Allen Garr, Vancouver Courier
February 3, 2011

Attention cyclists: City hall is about to knock you off your exalted perch at the top of the transportation pecking order. Make way for pedestrians.

Right now cyclists are the only folks commuting on our streets who have a formal city advisory committee. Car drivers, bus riders and pedestrians have nothing near the access to power of this privileged class.

That is about to change. We get this from no lesser sources than city manager Penny Ballem and the city’s new chief engineer, Peter Judd.

This week Ballem predicted “there will be a pedestrian advisory committee coming out of the new transportation plan.” She also says that will happen before the November election.

It’s about time when you consider daily pedestrian trips in Vancouver number 318,000. Cycle trips are a fifth, at 60,000.

And Judd admitted this week that even though for the past decade or more pedestrians have been cited as the most preferred folks in the city’s transportation universe, “there has been a gap” in making that a reality.

In the midst of a detailed report on capital projects at council Tuesday, Judd promised a “pedestrian safety plan.” Even though there have been programs in co-operation with ICBC and the police dealing with pedestrian safety, Judd says this will be the first comprehensive plan.

But there is more. In the last few weeks there has been major restructuring in the engineering department to begin a process that will put the concerns of pedestrians front and centre.

The re-jig has created a division within engineering called “Active Transportation.” It includes all human-powered methods of moving. Actually, rather than have a pedestrian advisory committee, don’t be surprised if they are blended with the cyclists into an active transportation advisory committee.

Two things triggered this. There was a council motion in November to improve safety and accessibility for pedestrians, which came from Mayor Gregor Robertson after he took a look at pedestrian traffic injuries and fatalities. (See Mike Howell’s Courier cover story Jan. 14 for those statistics.)

But that motion came at a time when there was a generational change taking place in the engineering department. Long-serving head Tom Timm left and Peter Judd was promoted.

While you could argue that the priorities of the engineering department haven’t changed since the Transportation Plan was passed by council in 1997, Judd has clearly changed what is being emphasized and it dovetails neatly with where this council wants to go.

Just ask the city’s director of transportation Jerry Dobrovolny.

He’ll tell you, “Peter is surfing on that wave. He is energizing it, that’s for sure.” Putting some muscle into solutions for pedestrians is one significant result.

Interestingly, this shift coincides with a visit to our city by one of the international rock stars of the planning world—Danish architect and urban planner Jan Gels. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has this guy on speed dial. Gels is the guy who advised Bloomberg on shutting cars out of Time Square and adding all those bike paths to New York’s congested streets.

Gels wowed a Vancouver Playhouse crowd of mostly architects and their students last week. Then he went on to spend time with city staff and politicians in Vancouver and Surrey.

If he makes one point, it is this: Ever since the car began to dominate public space after the Second World War, architects and planners have forgotten they should be building to human scale. Restoring that practice, in part by taking space back from cars, he says is the key to creating healthier, livelier and more sustainable cities.

But at this point he says: “Every city I know of has a department of traffic planners. No city in the world has a department for pedestrians.”

Vancouver may be the first city to change that.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) Vancouver Courier

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

From the Courier:

I like it. The city has been doing pretty well for pedestrians over the last few decades. I'm still in awe over that huge sidewalk on the Cambie bridge, and we all owe Rick Hansen a huge debt of thanks for making accessibility a priority. But having a formalized group to advocate the pedestrian agenda should help to improve things even more.

Sounds to me like one more reason to love this city.

[sacrifice333]

Oooo... I hope this influences some standards regarding sidewalk awnings/coverings.

Sure would be nice to have less need for an umbrella in the CBD.

[hazel]

Rob Macdonald for mayor!

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/...786/story.html

[crazyjoeda]

Vancouver needs more pedestrian only zones almost every european city has at least one major pedestrian street. Part of Robson street should be redesigned as a pedestrian mall, I'm thinking Burrard to Jervis perhaps.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by hazel

Rob Macdonald for mayor!

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/...786/story.html

Interesting to note that Macdonald is, as his byline says, and avid cyclist. He fronted the $45,000 prize money for the Whistler GranFondo:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...8-fe149a87825d

As you suggest, Frances Bula speculates Macdonald may be planning a run for office:
http://www.francesbula.com/uncategor...he-bike-lanes/

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interesting to note that Macdonald is, as his byline says, and avid cyclist. He fronted the $45,000 prize money for the Whistler GranFondo:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...8-fe149a87825d

As you suggest, Frances Bula speculates Macdonald may be planning a run for office:
http://www.francesbula.com/uncategor...he-bike-lanes/

"The ambulance also got stuck as traffic backed up to the Georgia Viaduct. City staff and council ignored warnings that fire trucks would not be able to make this turn because of the bike lane barriers."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/...#ixzz1DUAzzVbQ

So the bike lanes are to blame for traffic backing up on Georgia Street, a street with no separated bike paths??? Doesn't make a good case here.

"Rob Macdonald, CEO of Macdonald Development Corp., is an avid cyclist and financially supports cycling events in Vancouver."

Biking event type of sport recreational cycling is a lot different than commuter cycling or casual cycling from point A to B. A future bike share program will just add to this casual type of cycling. Just because you may be an avid lycra wearing sport cyclist does not mean that the next person who wants to safely cycle from point A to point B downtown is a confident as the sport cyclist out there with traffic. I would wait to see what such a program would do for cycling in the downtown core area before I took out any of the facilities installed.

People have to keep in mind that the lanes are built to make cycling more accessible for people that are not as confident as the most avid cyclists.

A bike to work week survey last year in Spring 2010 asked "Which type of Routes are you most comfortable cycling on?"

On main road with parked cars 51%
On main road without parked cars 61%
On main road with striped bike lane 80%
On designated residential route with no striped lane 81%
On route physically separated from car traffic 90%
On separated route out of view from car traffic 77% (likely lower because of security issues)
On highway with shoulder 35%

For those training for the race to Whistler going up to train prior to the highway being closed for the races only accounts for 35% of the cycling population (which I assume is the point of view of the writer of the article)

The most popular route is the physically separated route. The survey was taken among people that are already cycling for bike to work week or familiar with bike to work week. What do you think this stat would be for someone who was new to cycling or a family cycling with children? For cities that have a high percentage of trips made with cycling they also have the highest amount of separated cycling facilities. Why because they feel the most safe.

Keep in mind that separate facilities are for everyone, not just the most confident cyclists.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interesting to note that Macdonald is, as his byline says, and avid cyclist. He fronted the $45,000 prize money for the Whistler GranFondo

Billionaires who cycle for sport have nothing in common with the daily urban rider. It's sure nice to be rich enough to shut down a highway just for a ride, but that doesn't mean anything to the normal everyday cyclist who just wants to get around safely.