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  #17121  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2024, 7:47 PM
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Paniolo Man Paniolo Man is offline
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Originally Posted by Prodev & Livability View Post
what crops do you recommend?
Literally anything else:

Source.
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  #17122  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 12:13 AM
Always Sunny in SLC Always Sunny in SLC is offline
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Originally Posted by Prodev & Livability View Post
"I have little sympathy for Utah agriculture." You mean farmers, and their families? "Utah agriculture," - nice clinical term. Do you know their average income? Since you're so versed in agricultural market, and farming in Utah, what crops do you recommend?
People's livelihood is not a good reason to continue a destructive policy, but it should be a good reason to craft a reasonable and compassionate exit of Utah from agriculture and ranching. Utah should create a 30 year exit plan where farms can be operated until the owner dies. They would not be able to sell it for ag/ranch purposes. There would be monies to help them conserve water in the meantime. Ag/ranching should be in places that have sufficient rainfall. Utah is not that place.
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  #17123  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 4:29 PM
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Excellent points Always Sunny. Your points and all points regarding precious limited resources of water. A couple of agri-related concerns are worth taking a deep dive into Utah's agricultural future. Just to touch lightly on a multi-faceted and complicated path, there are a few concerns that I have when dealing with Alfalfa hay farming that bear further indepth study and wading through the weeds, and not taking a meat cleaver to the subject(no pun intended).

I remember how many of us have lamented on several occasions over the years in this forum regarding the continued demise of Utah's once excellent Dairy Farming community. This of course as much of what used to be open land along the Wasatch Front has been swallowed up by Utah's hyper-growth population advent of the past twenty-five years. Now even parts of the greater metro such as Heber Valley are losing their cherished tradition of Dairies. The reason that this is concerning is the fact that the survival of Dairies in Utah is integrally and laterally connected to Utah's Alfalfa farming. Alfalfa is the essential feed ingredient for Dairy and Beef cattle. Currently, Utah exports 29% of its Alfalfa and retains in-state 71% of this feed product. Of course, we need to take a serious look if Utah should be raising alfalfa for anyone other than its own population. Also, another interesting factor is that there is a reason why the more arid Western/Southwestern States of the U.S. raise such an inordinate percentage amount of alfalfa feed. The Western U.S. States such as Arizona, Utah, etc. are not only considered some of the highest quality alfalfa production in the world but the ability to raise alfalfa is ideally farmed on the more arid climate cycle of the Western U.S.

My question where I would want far more information provided is this. Should Utah sacrifice its internal high-quality protein Dairy and Beef Industry product that could be essential to its future ability to provide a sustainable protein product for its own Utah citizens? Perhaps, it is even more egregious that California has been allowed to completely vacate its responsibility to provide critical in-state water capture and retention infrastructure over the past decades. Yet at the same time California has been allowed to grab from its neighboring Western States far more of its allotted share of the Colorado River than legally allowed. This is while the Intermountain and Southwest States have looked away to their peril, especially now that the West's population growth and available water resources have reached a critically unsustainable point. Hopefully, recent pressure will allow Utah the enforced legal right to refuse this practice to continue

Another question worth exploring is whether Utah should sacrifice its in-state Dairy Industry for say California and Arizona to cultivate such a high amount of product such as Almond Orchards, which also demand such a ludicrous amount of Colorado water. I love almonds but maybe Arizona and California need to better prioritize their in-state water storage infrastructure (especially California). The amount of high-quality agricultural and drinking water that California wastes and or allows to just empty into the Pacific Ocean is criminal. This has been a facet of the green religious cult gone amuck over the past several decades and Utah should not have to pay the price for California vacating its responsibilities when it comes to water retention and storage. Sure, all Western States need to do a better job of prioritizing their water capturing and retention infrastructure, but California has been particularly the most negligent these past few decades. Again, it's particularly galling considering how much of the Colorado they use instead of implementing needed water retention.

Excuse my lengthy diatribe. So yes, Utah should better manage its water retention and distribution, as well as improve the management of its beef and dairy industry. Should Utah be exporting 29% of its alfalfa product to customers such as the CCP slave state? Consider that alfalfa hay farming is essential to the beef and dairy industry. These multi-generational farms are much more than just a fond tradition, but also a critical component to the quality of Utah's future table product. (Note: Utah's Lamb and wool production is also worth consideration). There is nothing more critical than the survival of Utah's internal supply of food and water products for its own citizens.



I tried to guess this photo at around the Spring/Summer of 2023, but I might be off. If any of you know differently give me a heads up. Also, if anyone lives and or works in this area please grab a pic or two that is current. Really, any of the major projects in and around Holladay like the Cottonwood Mall site could use an update.


Last edited by delts145; Feb 9, 2024 at 6:30 PM.
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  #17124  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 7:20 PM
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  #17125  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 1:22 AM
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I’m kind of disappointed with the Astra tower. It really doesn’t have much of a perspective height difference and is pretty bland looking… in fact, it looks outright hideous heading south from the capital building. It’s like a 450’ tall wall of nothing. It’s really unfortunate that they couldn’t make the north side of the building more interesting.

How many years did we have to wait for the Wells Fargo building to get dethroned… and that’s what we got? ehh. Hopefully that thing doesn’t stay the tallest for as long as Wells Fargo.
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  #17126  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 1:53 AM
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I am not a fan of the white siding.
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  #17127  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 2:30 AM
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To each there own, but I think it has down wonders for the skyline from most angles. Especially the South, West, and East.
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  #17128  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by taboubak View Post
To each there own, but I think it has down wonders for the skyline from most angles. Especially the South, West, and East.
It could do wonders for the skyline and still be ugly.
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  #17129  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 4:52 AM
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Nebula3lem123 Nebula3lem123 is offline
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I don't know about you guys, but I really like how the Astra Tower looks, even from the south. Could it have been better? Yeah obviously, but I don't see anything that makes it ugly by any means.
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  #17130  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 4:53 AM
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^I mean from the north, facing south
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  #17131  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 5:32 AM
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Astra is an average tier modern skyscraper. That blank white wall, I will agree, is a mistake.
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  #17132  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 6:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
I’m kind of disappointed with the Astra tower. It really doesn’t have much of a perspective height difference and is pretty bland looking… in fact, it looks outright hideous heading south from the capital building. It’s like a 450’ tall wall of nothing. It’s really unfortunate that they couldn’t make the north side of the building more interesting.

How many years did we have to wait for the Wells Fargo building to get dethroned… and that’s what we got? ehh. Hopefully that thing doesn’t stay the tallest for as long as Wells Fargo.
Agreed, it looks boring and not something you'd see in 2024! I bet China hasn't built anything remotely close to this mess since 1990. But its SLC ... and NO one wants to build a signature tower downtown and there's certainly no competition for bragging rights. There's no major catalyst to change downtown into anything special, no big headquarters coming in and all they seem to construct are 4-5 story apartments on almost every other block-therefore there's no vested interest in what develops around them. The green loop now seems to be decades in the making, the Jazz will probably pack up soon. I'm not trying to be negative, but what's the reason to really frequent downtown? It's not really walkable... zero parks, nothing really to look at aside from they Capital and Temple Square, no waterway, no special view. Look at Vegas..San Fran.. (aside from the homeless) amazing views everywhere you turn. Downtown Dallas sucks for the most part, but they do have world class museums. Build a massive park, build luxury condo's, lure 2-3 massive tech companies downtown and this might change, but until then, it will be more of the same I am afraid - I really wish it wasn't the case.
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  #17133  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 8:29 AM
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^^^^

There will never be a catalyst that changes our city for the better. No cultural shift or signature skyscrapers and improved urban fabric can come sooner than our own environmental demise.

Our home town is small, boring, and bubbled. It can only be what you make of it, so make the best.
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  #17134  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 3:43 PM
taboubak taboubak is offline
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Man some serious whining going on here. It's not the greatest tower in the world. Yet it is a good additon to a skyline and much needed dense housing. SLC is just fine and the downtown is growing steadily even if its not as fast as many including my self wish, no need to doom spiral.
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  #17135  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taboubak View Post
Man some serious whining going on here. It's not the greatest tower in the world. Yet it is a good additon to a skyline and much needed dense housing. SLC is just fine and the downtown is growing steadily even if its not as fast as many including my self wish, no need to doom spiral.
It's laughable, sometimes embarrassing, but that's why I still come here... For photo updates and to get a good laugh at the perpetual crying about how lame Salt Lake is. I rarely post because I'm often left just shaking my head, laughing, and moving on.

Many boobs on this forum, and not the good kind.
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  #17136  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 4:02 PM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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Originally Posted by zurich View Post
Agreed, it looks boring and not something you'd see in 2024! I bet China hasn't built anything remotely close to this mess since 1990.
Meanwhile in China:

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  #17137  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 4:20 PM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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That's just it though. Astra wasn't trying to be some skyline defining building. It's just trying to be an apartment building. A higher-end one (for Utah), but still an apartment building.

Salt Lake is still just a minor regional capital. We are not New York or San Francisco or national capital where developers or governments will spend billions of dollars on fancy towers. We aren't even at the level yet of cities like Denver, which has vastly more people and demand for such structures.

Salt Lake can look at future requirements for the D-1 to try and avoid the 'blank wall' that we see on Astra, but we shouldn't be expecting towers for the mega millionaire and billionaire class to just magically start appearing when we don't have tons of ultra wealthy people to fill them. Plus, those that we do have, would rather live in their sprawling mansions in the high-end suburbs than be crammed in a tower downtown. That's just the kind of people Utah currently attracts.
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  #17138  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2024, 4:30 PM
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delts145 delts145 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taboubak View Post
Man some serious whining going on here. It's not the greatest tower in the world. Yet it is a good addition to a skyline and much needed dense housing. SLC is just fine and the downtown is growing steadily even if its not as fast as many including my self wish, no need to doom spiral.
Ditto to that Taboubak!!

Love it...DOOM SPIRAL... LOL, I want to remember that expression for future use.
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  #17139  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2024, 12:06 AM
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lol some of you guys take things way too seriously. The tower is ugly. It's okay to admit some level of disappointment since it is the tallest building in the city. It doesn't mean I want the thing demolished but it's also silly to think that because Salt Lake isn't New York or San Francisco that it has to settle for bland architecture.
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  #17140  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2024, 1:30 AM
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^
Your insistence that the tower is ugly is not a unanimous opinion, far from it. Like all of us, it's your subjective opinion, and no one is taking it as anything more seriously than that.

It's the 'Doom Spiral' as Taboubak put it that causes people to shake their heads in disbelief. Sometimes, this thread diverts into the nonsense of newspaper comment sections gone amuck.
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