Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[wrendog]

MLB tryout at Smith's Ballpark?

https://twitter.com/FOS/status/1748097427586900398?t=XxtYT2ZHS4lhIsImAL2Jsg&s=19

[Atlas]

Hopefully they were at Smith's Ballpark today because it was absolutely gorgeous outside.

[delts145]

No kidding, it's beautiful there this evening too! Calm between the snow days. Great to see that they're getting some good snow accumulations in the mountains.

[wrendog]

Nevermind about Smith's ballpark and MLB tryout. If they A's need a temporary home, it will be at Daybreak stadium according to Steve Starks and LHM.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Nevermind about Smith's ballpark and MLB tryout. If they A's need a temporary home, it will be at Daybreak stadium according to Steve Starks and LHM.

His statement on Instagram indicates they are proposing a "two stadium solution"

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Atlas

His statement on Instagram indicates they are proposing a "two stadium solution"

Updated info is stating Daybreak only and they will be expanding to 11,000

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Updated info is stating Daybreak only and they will be expanding to 11,000

So this is not accurate? Posted literally 30 minutes ago.



Are they just saying that the Bees will stay in SLC? Still extremely lame of them.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Atlas

So this is not accurate? Posted literally 30 minutes ago.



Are they just saying that the Bees will stay in SLC? Still extremely lame of them.

Yeah, the two stadium solution is that Smith's will be able to host the Bees during the three years the A's are in Daybreak.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by RC14

^
That seems much more logical and practical to me. There is allot of water in that system. The biggest challenge would probably be political. If we couldn't get Idaho to okay that, maybe we could divert water from the Columbia River itself? That is the largest river west of the Rockies and the population it supports isn't nearly as large as what the Colorado basin supports.

This is all silly, the logical answer is California should desalinate and more water stays with the other CO river states. They use the most and they are right next to the ocean.

[RC14]

^
That's a good point.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by locolife

This is all silly, the logical answer is California should desalinate and more water stays with the other CO river states. They use the most and they are right next to the ocean.

I don’t disagree for Colorado River basin water solutions, but the Salt Lake is an endoric internally draining basin that does not reach any ocean and is not connected to the Colorado River basin. Most Salt Lake water comes from the Bear River, and Provo River that turns into the Jordan. Any solution for the Salt Lake is going to be up to us and managing our water resources better, and not other states. Despite some really bad recent droughts, we have water that’s largely all ours (Wyoming and Idaho can use a little bit of Bear River water), we just horribly mismanage our water. For example, there are ridiculous antiquated water laws that allow individuals with water rights to flood their fields and replenish their local ground water instead of sending the water downstream to the Salt Lake. There’s no water to spare from the Colorado basin anyways to pipe water hundreds of miles from southern Utah to the Salt Lake basin. The Colorado River is the same solution as the proposed Snake pipeline, but even more complicated, a much longer pipeline, and less water to spare. The Salt Lake being an endoric basin that’s mostly all in northern Utah is great. We get to manage our own water and not fight with other states, unlike St George that has to fight for that Colorado River water. Mark Twain - “whisky is for drinking and water is for fighting”. Northern Utah only has to fight with ourselves.

[tygr]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

I don’t disagree for Colorado River basin water solutions, but the Salt Lake is an endoric internally draining basin that does not reach any ocean and is not connected to the Colorado River basin. Most Salt Lake water comes from the Bear River, and Provo River that turns into the Jordan. Any solution for the Salt Lake is going to be up to us and managing our water resources better, and not other states. Despite some really bad recent droughts, we have water that’s largely all ours (Wyoming and Idaho can use a little bit of Bear River water), we just horribly mismanage our water. For example, there are ridiculous antiquated water laws that allow individuals with water rights to flood their fields and replenish their local ground water instead of sending the water downstream to the Salt Lake. There’s no water to spare from the Colorado basin anyways to pipe water hundreds of miles from southern Utah to the Salt Lake basin. The Colorado River is the same solution as the proposed Snake pipeline, but even more complicated, a much longer pipeline, and less water to spare. The Salt Lake being an endoric basin that’s mostly all in northern Utah is great. We get to manage our own water and not fight with other states, unlike St George that has to fight for that Colorado River water. Mark Twain - “whisky is for drinking and water is for fighting”. Northern Utah only has to fight with ourselves.

The Great Salt Lake can and already does get some water from the Upper Colorado River Basin via the Duchesne Tunnel to the Provo River.

The Duchesne River is on the south slope of the Uinta Basin and is a tributary of the Green River.

There's also the Strawberry Pipeline that can move water from Strawberry Reservoir to Utah Lake.

Both the tunnel and the pipeline are just two parts of the Central Utah Project that provide the Wasatch Front with our portion of Colorado River water.

See this image.

[TheGeographer]

Thanks for the info and map. Puts things in perspective. I was quite a bit off on my pipeline milage estimation neglecting the Green River. It’s interesting to see where our water comes from. My larger point is the Great Salt Lake naturally fills up internally and not from the Colorado River Basin. I’d imagine the water currently being piped in from the Green River is largely not being used to fill up the Great Salt Lake, it’s being used for municipal, agricultural and imdustrial uses. This article shows most Colorado River water in Utah is used for agriculture ( https://www.kuer.org/health-science-envi...elps-it-flourish-in-the-desert?_amp=true). So the percentage of water currently coming from the Colorado Basin that makes it into Great Salt Lake is not much if any. Frankly there’s so much litigation and mismanagement of Colorado River water why not rely on ourselves and what’s in our control. The burgeoning St. George area is going to use up more and more of the Colorado River water we are allocated. The Great Salt Lake is internally draining. Let’s better manage the water that has less States hands in it, opposed to piping even more water over and fighting with other States for it. That doesn’t seem sustainable. There are many different ways we could better manage the endoric Great Salt Lake basin water without having to deal with a “water war” between other states

[RC14]

I agree that our water needs to be better managed and it's nice that we don't have to share it with other states but the down side of that is that the water we get, from snowfall, is the water we have and this is mostly a semi arid climate (excluding the Wasatch mountains) and if we want to use the water we receive, we need to capture it before it reaches the GSL which depletes the lake and in turn reduces lake effect snow fall, resulting in even less water.

I think we need both better water managment and engineering solutions to reduce our dependence snowfall and provide the necessary water to a growing population.

[Paniolo Man]

I can guarantee 100% that it will be cheaper and more effective to reduce the amount of water we use to grow livestock feed. We don't need more diversions and pipelines, it would be so much easier to just let more of the water that enters the Great Salt Lake Watershed actually flow to it's intended destination.

People can cope with beef getting more expensive if it means saving our lake.

[rockies]

^
It has been mentioned here a few times

Alfalfa and other types of hay are by far Utah’s most valuable agricultural crop, worth nearly half a billion dollars last year. But that represents just 0.2% of the state’s gross domestic product — on par with revenue generated by amusement parks.

Alfalfa and hay account for 68% of the 5.1 million acre-feet of water diverted every year in Utah.

According to federal data, 29% of Utah’s hay harvest, by value, is exported overseas, with about two-thirds going to China.

That's like 10-15% of Utah's water going to 1 country for 0.07% of our GDP in the example referenced in this article. There are other countries and other water-intensive exports with a similar story as well. Simple changes in water regulation and subsidy could erase the immediate need for massive pipelines and plants

[taboubak]

Originally Posted by taboubak

Since the thread has been dead lately, here is an idea. Since the pipeline from the ocean to the salt lake has been deemed to be quite a difficult and expensive idea. What if we just a built a far shorter pipeline that had far less elevation gain.

The Snake River at Raft River, Idaho is about 59 miles from the north arm of the Great Salt Lake. This is the arm of the lake that is in the most danger of drying up. The Snake really is a great American river and it drains a good portion of one of the most plentiful watersheds in the country in the greater Yellowstone Basin. It also sends a ton of water downstream to the Columbia and into thw ocean every year. I wonder if a deal could be reached with Idaho to allow some diversion during high water years to rescue the lake. This seems far more practical to me than a 750 miles pipeline.

I looked into this a little further and the Great Salt Lake drainage basin actually extends past the border a good way into Southern Idaho. Thus any water pipeline or canal from the Snake would only need to be pumped uphill for about 20 to 30 miles. The remainder would run downhill into the north arm. This idea seems quite practical to me, but I'm not an expert so who knows. I will say the GSL drying up would greatly effect Idaho too, so they would have some incentive here. Being from Southern Idaho with the Snake and a massive underground Aquifer, we were never really that concerned about fresh water resources.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by taboubak

I looked into this a little further and the Great Salt Lake drainage basin actually extends past the border a good way into Southern Idaho. Thus any water pipeline or canal from the Snake would only need to be pumped uphill for about 20 to 30 miles. The remainder would run downhill into the north arm. This idea seems quite practical to me, but I'm not an expert so who knows. I will say the GSL drying up would greatly effect Idaho too, so they would have some incentive here. Being from Southern Idaho with the Snake and a massive underground Aquifer, we were never really that concerned about fresh water resources.

Largely political implications. Most western watersheds are over-allocated. It would be difficult to get rights and political approval for such a project.

Still, we have enough water, we just use it terribly. Trying to pipe in water from the Snake while Utah is still formally pursuing things like the Bear River Development is absurd.

We need to establish a baseline amount of water that is legally entitled to the lake. From there snowpack accumulations are monitored and water shares are adjusted proportionately on an annual basis to ensure that the required amount of water reaches the lake.

[taboubak]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Largely political implications. Most western watersheds are over-allocated. It would be difficult to get rights and political approval for such a project.

Still, we have enough water, we just use it terribly. Trying to pipe in water from the Snake while Utah is still formally pursuing things like the Bear River Development is absurd.

We need to establish a baseline amount of water that is legally entitled to the lake. From there snowpack accumulations are monitored and water shares are adjusted proportionately on an annual basis to ensure that the required amount of water reaches the lake.

Ya you are correct, our terrible water usage is our biggest issue. I just really have 0 faith in our states decision makers to fix the issue through conservation. My guess is they just continue business as usual.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Largely political implications. Most western watersheds are over-allocated. It would be difficult to get rights and political approval for such a project.

Still, we have enough water, we just use it terribly. Trying to pipe in water from the Snake while Utah is still formally pursuing things like the Bear River Development is absurd.

We need to establish a baseline amount of water that is legally entitled to the lake. From there snowpack accumulations are monitored and water shares are adjusted proportionately on an annual basis to ensure that the required amount of water reaches the lake.

As you said in an earlier post Paniolo, the agricultural industry in Utah is a joke. If they were growing food for people, I might feel differently. Hay or (alfalfa) are water-hogs. The state needs to buy up ag water rights, but the legislature has a huge ag lobby to protect itself. If we dry up the lake, the finger will point directly to the 800lb gorilla in the room.