Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[officedweller]

That was Migrant Coconut who suggested people would be forced off the train.
... which is still true for any people who board "the wrong train" for their destination.

If you buy more trains to provide the short turn service that wouldn't affect existing service.
Or you could use the spares held in reserve for emergencies.
Before the newer trainsets entered service in 2019-2020, I think they ran with no spares (at least during peak) to boost service.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That was Migrant Coconut who suggested people would be forced off the train.
... which is still true for any people who board "the wrong train" for their destination.

Whoops, my mistake - apologies.

But I still think it's no different than someone going to the airport who mistakenly boards a Richmond train. In other words, people are already living with having to pay attention to where their train is going, introducing southbound trains that short turn doesn't change that.

In fact, a lot more people are living with this on the Expo line when they board trains bound for either King George or Production Way.

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

First, buy more trains to allow higher frequency.
Those could also be longer trains.

If you short-turn trains from the existing service levels, you'd be reducing capacity on the southern parts of the lines which are already crowded at peak times.

Physical infrastructure (other than planned platform extensions) would be far far down the list in fantasy territory. Add more trains to increase the frequency.

There should be enough trains to run additional frequency. I always wonder why they bought so many trains for Canada Line for just a 3min peak frequency.

The trip time is 26min one-way, add 4min layover on both ends, then each train should be able to do a round-trip every hour.

With a headway of 3min, there's 20 trains per hour. Adding a generous 20% spare, then 24 trains are needed.

There are currently 32 trains... so what are the other 8 trains doing? I initially thought they are going to do 2min headway when purchasing 12 more trains....

Maybe they're waiting for ridership to increase further to add additional frequency? As far as I know, the ridership of Canada Line is still quite a bit below the peak in 2019.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If you ADD short turning trains that run every 90 seconds between Broadway and downtown, then you don't affect running the capacity of the trains running at 180 seconds or less capacity south of that.

The system is actually not designed for 90s headway.

The ultimate capacity of 15,000pphpd would be achieved by running 3-cars trains at 2min headway.

[Sheba]

I feel like I need to jump in here. You do remember that the Canada Line, while part of the system, isn't run by TransLink - it's run by ProTrans (as part of the contract that got it built). From their website:

PROTRANS BC, a subsidiary of AtkinsRéalis., is the private operator of the Canada Line, a 19-km automated rail-based rapid transit system connecting Downtown Vancouver with central Richmond and the Vancouver International Airport. We are located in Richmond, British Columbia.

Under a 31-year operations and maintenance contract, PROTRANS BC operates and maintains the award-winning Canada Line. A fleet of 20 trains provide a 26-minute terminus-to-terminus service to an average weekday ridership of more than 120,000 passengers across 16 stations.

They have a minimum of service they must provide under that contract. They're not going to do more than they have to as they wouldn't get any more money, only more costs.

We can revisit this in a decade as it would be a little closer to the end date of the contract.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I feel like I need to jump in here. You do remember that the Canada Line, while part of the system, isn't run by TransLink - it's run by ProTrans (as part of the contract that got it built). From their website:


They have a minimum of service they must provide under that contract. They're not going to do more than they have to as they wouldn't get any more money, only more costs.

We can revisit this in a decade as it would be a little closer to the end date of the contract.

TransLink can negotiate with ProTrans to provide additional service above the minimum for additional cost. This probably already done when 12 additional trains were added.

Additional service above minimum probably also negotiated when they purchased the trains (otherwise why buy the trains when they can't run them due to contract?). But this likely not activated for now since the ridership is still about 20% less then 2019 level. 2019 was the time when additional trains was really needed when peak load was at 97% of capacity at 3min headway. Right now the peak is only at 71% capacity (source: 2019 and 2024 TSPR).

[Mac Write]

If you think "Mind the gap" is bad here in London their new deep trains are 6inch's+ below the platform level!!!
• Video Link

[Mac Write]

Ok if that video isn't bad enough the photo on this page is 15inch gap!!! All I can think about is if an elevator was stuck with that big a gap the fire department would be called to level the elevator so people wouldn't fall down the shaft!!!

http://www.metadyne.co.uk/mind_the_gap.htm

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

If you think "Mind the gap" is bad here in London their new deep trains are 6inch's+ below the platform level!!!

The embedded link didn't work for me - here's a link that worked that starts at the point where they're testing the platform vs car floor levels:

https://youtu.be/vwWzIez_-00?si=BKjfCgwfsAFRV1AG&t=195

It's a mystery to me why they'd order cars with such a drastic difference in height. Surely they can construct these things to a closer specification...?

[Lexus]

2025, Aug 22


OMC4 aka "OMC North Road"

Untitled by Lexus LX, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX, on Flickr

[Mac Write]

Now that we are less then 120 days, 4 months from 2026 and the $600M+ short fall, what is the current status and I heard some temp funding was secured but how bad is the situation still? HandyDart cutting back to medical appointments will kill people (not joking) as they would be confined to their homes, and a majority of HandyDart users are low income so can't afford other methods of travel.

Next problem is mass sell off of rolling stock to fund the gap, and set us back another 1-2 decades to just reach 2024 levels.

I am genuinly terrified as Public Transit needs to be an essential city service like water, Electricity, Internet (yes that's a human right) and I would say housing but it seems that's not essential.

[Chirpythecougar]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Now that we are less then 120 days, 4 months from 2026 and the $600M+ short fall, what is the current status and I heard some temp funding was secured but how bad is the situation still? HandyDart cutting back to medical appointments will kill people (not joking) as they would be confined to their homes, and a majority of HandyDart users are low income so can't afford other methods of travel.

Next problem is mass sell off of rolling stock to fund the gap, and set us back another 1-2 decades to just reach 2024 levels.

I am genuinly terrified as Public Transit needs to be an essential city service like water, Electricity, Internet (yes that's a human right) and I would say housing but it seems that's not essential.

What? The funding was secured months ago through 2027. People actually thought Provincial NDP + Liberal Feds would let transit run off a fiscal cliff?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-funding-increases-1.7507285

[Lexus]

2025, Sep 1

OMC4 aka "OMC North Road"

A few more shots while on SkyTrain

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX 700, on Flickr

[officedweller]

Thanks!
I think the branch line to the yard will be single track, so I wonder if the guide way will be steel box girder lifted by mobile crane.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks!
I think the branch line to the yard will be single track, so I wonder if the guide way will be steel box girder lifted by mobile crane.

Probably steel box though it's not 100% clear from the tender

The Pocket Track, Tie-in Structure and Flyover Scope includes clearing & grubbing, temporary culvert and
access road, demolition of existing concrete 2nd pour slabs & parapets, drilled shaft concrete filled steel
caissons, guideway piers, pier caps, precast/steel girders, track slabs, new CIP parapets, new steel walkways,
modification to existing guideway slabs, parapets and steel walkways, existing modification and new to railway,
system electrical, LIM and Power Rail. A project brief with preliminary site plans is included to illustrate the
intent of the overall project.

Can't link to the file but it's in the RFQ for Skytrain OMC4 - Pocket Track, Tie-in Structure and Flyover from Graham

https://canadabuys.canada.ca/

(There's nothing interesting/new diagrams in the other newer tenders)

[officedweller]

Thanks!

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by Chirpythecougar

What? The funding was secured months ago through 2027. People actually thought Provincial NDP + Liberal Feds would let transit run off a fiscal cliff?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-funding-increases-1.7507285

So how many years do they have full funding? 2026 and 2027? or just 2026 calendar year.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

So how many years do they have full funding? 2026 and 2027? or just 2026 calendar year.

Read the CBC article. "According to TransLink, the deal will keep them fiscally sustainable until the end of 2027. It will also allow them to increase service on up to 50 bus routes, add 40 new or additional routes, and extend the North Short RapidBus to Metrotown by 2027. "

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Read the CBC article. "According to TransLink, the deal will keep them fiscally sustainable until the end of 2027. It will also allow them to increase service on up to 50 bus routes, add 40 new or additional routes, and extend the North Short RapidBus to Metrotown by 2027. "

Thank you for the summary that will help allot of people on this forum. so we now have 28 months to breath.

[jollyburger]

They are going to work on some new funding model for 2027/28 but it's also an election year so who knows.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/translink-bailout-delays-operating-deficit-crisis

[Mac Write]

This week with the 3rd Mark V now in revenue service, I was running the numbers on the 1 to 1 replacement for the Mark I fleet (150 cars) and realized (I knew this a long time ago but) that with 150 Mark V cars we are going from 25 6-car Mark I trains to 30 5-car Mark V trains! Not only are we getting 20% more trains thanks to the increased car length that started with the Mark II and early 90's Mark I extended edition that never happened.

What are 30 Mark V trains equivalent to in Mark 1 terms? Add the 11 additional trains for the broadway subway and sadly only 6 Mark V trains for the 16lkm Langley extension and at first it seems we are getting a capacity upgrade but now that I have written all this it seems we won't have enough trains to offer 3 minute service Water-front to Langley and 90 second service waterfront to Arbutus.