Winnipeg | The Forks Market | Railside at The Forks

[P&M40BELOW]

Does anyone know why there are large sized developments all over the city but we can’t seem to develop the barren gravel parking lots at the forks. This to me is an abject failure of the city. People need to lose their jobs or at minimum replace the Forks Board. The Forks was conceived 40 years ago?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

Does anyone know why there are large sized developments all over the city but we can’t seem to develop the barren gravel parking lots at the forks. This to me is an abject failure of the city. People need to lose their jobs or at minimum replace the Forks Board. The Forks was conceived 40 years ago?

This is my take on it:

The Forks as we know it only dates to the late 80s, before that it was a railyard. I don’t know what extent of land remediation occurred to remove the bulk of the railyard, but it probably wasn’t cheap.

Trying to attract tourists in the car era meant needing parking. Paving = expensive and so the gravel lots today were simply overflow for major events. Outside of Canada day, I rarely see the paved lots and the parkade full anyways.

Even though the Forks is now Winnipeg’s #1 tourist attraction, it is barely 30 years old in this role.

Winnipeg in the 90’s and first half of the 00’s was not a time for ambitious long-term projects. No money. Keep in mind, the Forks barely opened, so the Johnston Terminal and Forks Market was just the beginning. It is probably a good thing nothing got developed in that time because it would likely have been half-assed and not fitting for the Forks.

Then Shaw park is built, deal to attract car-oriented consumers to Shaw Park is signed and gravel lots become more lucrative. Harder to remove something that makes money.

In this time, the Forks gets busier and more popular. In the last 5-8 years, the Forks has taken a more active role in “getting with the times” and keeping itself modern, losing a handful of dated restaurants in favour of more up to date tenants and has recently revamped its interior. It seems like the Forks has moved past the nostalgic vocal group that was unhappy with the Forks kicking out the long-term tenants.

The last 15 years or so has also seen Winnipeg awaken from the economically challenging era before it. Downtown, while not without its challenges, is seeing a surge in new builds, including a focus on residential. The CMHR was also built.

The Forks is probably at a point where the money generated from the parking lots is less than what would be generated if they build a well-thought-out community in its place. So that is where we are today, waiting on the designs for the future of the Forks.

Because of the importance of the site, it is probably a good thing it hasn’t been developed as quickly as they would develop, say Waverley West.

[Biff]

^^^Well said WildCake

The plans are there for the first phase of residential buildings (6 or 7). The developers are ready to go. The issue was firstly with the approvals by City and Province. Apparently that is all complete. Now the issue is with the servicing. The developers are waiting for the Forks to service the site so they can begin construction. I have heard the Forks is having some Covid related revenue issues...vastly reduced parking income from Portage Place etc. The income that would be used for the servicing just isn't there. I'm not sure what the answer will be.

[Wpg_Guy]

It's hard not to imagine had the sale of Portage Place been finalized by now, the servicing of the Forks site would be underway, they'd have that capital to tap into.

At The Forks AGM in December the Railside update stated they are putting the last details together and anticipate to get underway in Spring 2021.

With that said, here is the complex for StreetSide Developments:

[Biff]

They spelled "Life" wrong.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Biff

They spelled "Life" wrong.

That's how you spell it in Millennial.

[Wpgstvsouth94]

They really should be building skyscrapers on these lands it would add so much density to our skyline

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Wpgstvsouth94

They really should be building skyscrapers on these lands it would add so much density to our skyline

There's plenty of room elsewhere downtown for skyscrapers.

Skyscrapers tend to detach the residents from the street below and the area around it. I'm too lazy to look but there are research papers supporting this. On the opposite end of the spectrum, low density suburbs also don't fester lively neighbourhoods

Cities like Barcelona and Paris, while dense, are not tall, especially in the core areas known for lively neighbourhoods. Building 5-6 stories in height have been shown to be in that goldilocks spot of tall enough for critical mass of people, and not too tall that residents feel apart from the place they live.

The Forks doesn't want people to just happen to live there. They want the residents to be part of the site, so they will be sticking to medium sized residential. IIRC there was maybe one or two buildings closer to the rail line at 8-10 stories but that's it.

[Biff]

Downtown and The Forks needs a whole lotta more of this type of development happening in Montreal. This size and scope seems perfectly attainable for Winnipeg. This would fill holes and create density.


DJI_0028 by Denis-Carl Robidoux on flickr

[CoryB]

The Forks is similar to NYC Central Park in that it is a public space near downtown. Putting condos that could go just about anywhere is permanently tossing in a white flag and saying the location doesn't matter anymore.

We need bigger and bolder ideas for new public spaces rather than literally selling off the downtown public space to the highest bid for the next 50+ years.

The plan to build residential condos at The Forks is an extremely short sighted cash grab that is going to cripple the potential of the site.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The Forks is similar to NYC Central Park in that it is a public space near downtown. Putting condos that could go just about anywhere is permanently tossing in a white flag and saying the location doesn't matter anymore.

We need bigger and bolder ideas for new public spaces rather than literally selling off the downtown public space to the highest bid for the next 50+ years.

The plan to build residential condos at The Forks is an extremely short sighted cash grab that is going to cripple the potential of the site.

I've never been able to understand this point of view. Even pre-Covid, there is so much open park space at the Forks. With the exception of Pride and Canada Day (two days a year), I've always been able to find a nice space to put a blanket down in the Forks without other groups being right on top of my friends and I. Downtown needs park space, but not giant ones that'll end up being dead space. I think downtown is well served in terms of large parks. Downtown needs more parks like the play structure parkette on McDermot:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8971...7i13312!8i6656

What the Forks, downtown, and inner city Winnipeg really need, is people. The apartments and condos at the Forks should be really sought after as it'll be a pretty unique offering in terms of location.

The argument for more open park space would be a lot more understandable if park space was used the way it is in New York or in Toronto where on a nice day you'll be lucky to find a spot in a park. Winnipeg's inner city population is a long ways away from generating that sort of issue.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I've never been able to understand this point of view.

I think their views are heavily influenced by the city of Winnipeg. It's pretty common for new builds in Winnipeg to have zero or minimal ground level interaction. If you hear "condo building" and the image that comes to your mind is a building that you'll never interact with, I understand the fear of putting condo buildings in a public space.

I'm not going to go over the many reasons its a good idea to put condos in (as many above already have), but the people fearing/arguing against condos at the forks have yet to provide a useful alternative.

I'm honestly wondering if the "no" crowd has never been to a major city before and actually walked around and interacted with locations. Or if their travel experience is resorts or Disneyworld locations - something wholly dedicated to their gimmick. I'd hate for the Forks to be a place to buy shiny knickknacks, take a couple selfies, and leave because the only thing to do there is say you've been there.

[bomberjet]

I fear Railside, in an effort to be unique and diverse, will end up a mish mash of disjointed buildings.

Will it be blocks of buildings built tight, like downtown with no side yards. Or just a bunch of standalone buildings? IIRC they want to mimic small European village type feel. With narrow laneways and such. That rendering of the streetside building feels quite suburban to me, as is a standalone building from what I can tell. It feels like that condo building I envision myself never interacting with.

The Montreal one, although the photo is bleak during winter, feels much more urban.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by Biff

Downtown and The Forks needs a whole lotta more of this type of development happening in Montreal. This size and scope seems perfectly attainable for Winnipeg. This would fill holes and create density

I mean... you can actually see Glasshouse in the background of that pic. We just need the foreground buildings and were good to go!

[bomberjet]

^For a second I thought it was Winnipeg. With Glasshouse and then the Newport centre in the top left.

[Wpg_Guy]

The Forks will be in control of all the ground level space in each building, they will be connected by Piazzas and long linear promenades.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The Forks is similar to NYC Central Park in that it is a public space near downtown. Putting condos that could go just about anywhere is permanently tossing in a white flag and saying the location doesn't matter anymore.

We need bigger and bolder ideas for new public spaces rather than literally selling off the downtown public space to the highest bid for the next 50+ years.

The plan to build residential condos at The Forks is an extremely short sighted cash grab that is going to cripple the potential of the site.

Agree 100% filling the forks with condos is not the answer. Just look at the exchange. The people buying there want it quiet past nine. Lol. The forks will attract the same type of crowd. Wealthy, older retired couples who own properties in other cities countries. I’d rather see the empty lots on Main Street filled up where the earls and train station parking lots are. Keep the forks free from residential. Put in some soccer pitches and baseball diamond. You want families living downtown? They need these types of amenities.

I’d rather see the new Métis centre commission a purpose built building for the site instead of trying to squeeze something into the bank at P&M, a museum/cultural centre would be much more appropriate use of the land than condos. Winnipeg has a gem here that should not be squandered for money. The forks is a national historic site and has been an important meeting site for indigenous peoples for literally thousands of years... sorry but FUCK the condos.

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Downtown needs more parks like the play structure parkette on McDermot:

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8971...7i13312!8i6656

Agree, but just FYI that's a private space for the daycare in the CWB building.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^Apartments please, not condos. And to scale please, and thanks. More park area too and add some trees.

The bottom of the above picture instantly reminded me of Portage Place. Hello Starlight. Work something like that into the plan.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by wpgstvsouth94

they really should be building skyscrapers on these lands it would add so much density to our skyline

yes!