The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[bingun]

Yes, referring back to this 'plan', the primary route is supposed to be via Douglas Avenue rather than Chelsey Drive. The trouble is that people, especially tourists, are going to take the path of least resistance to the Reversing Falls and are going to assume Harbour Passage hugs the harbour.

Maybe once the Museum is open, they would be more inclined to go up that way, but it will still be confusing.

From the capital plan, it appears they will be attempting the sections labelled 10, 11, and 'The Cove' next year.



The trouble with any extension on Chelsey Drive is that there is limited space once you get down by Ocean Steel. The initial section down to Merritt Street is probably not too bad with some collaboration with OSCO. But, this part here is extremely narrow, so other than painting the sidewalk red, I am not sure what could be done unless we go with the Main Street approach and steal a car lane.

[darkharbour]

^ This is ambitious/expensive, but you could always extend Harbour Passage out onto the water side of Ocean Steel. Their operations have no dependance on the harbour at all for shipping, so you could go around the other way and steer clear of Chesley entirely, much like they do closer to HMCS Brunswicker.

As you said though, once the new museum is open, the draw up to Douglas Avenue will be completely different and with decent wayfinding signage I think most people can be directed up that way fairly easily. Once up Bentley they'll see the museum and the heritage homes along the road and be drawn to continue on.

[adamuptownsj]

There's enough space between OSCO and the sidewalk to widen it a little and plug in some landscaping instead of grass along the foundation. Not a ton, but this would be a direct and cheap fix. The 'spur' to the museum is fine, but it should remain a spur.

The Douglas Avenue diversion is a) confusing to tourists b) steep and c) requires crossing Chesley twice and Douglas once to get to the Falls lookout, vs 0. I don't hate it, but it's gotta be properly signed... and it should take priority over the West Side extensions too. Bentley is just a red-painted sidewalk and I reckon the Douglas stretch would be the same, especially with the volume of residential driveways.

It just doesn't fit the whole 'public access to the waterfront' theme at all. Neither does the Broad St section, for that matter. They should have followed the curve of the railroad from Tin Can Beach to the ballfields at Broadview and Wentworth.

Building some kind of elevated boardwalk south of OSCO from Merritt St to the lookout would rule, but the cost is unfeasible. Unless OSCO donates the pilings and railings...

They might also have security issues with 24-7 pedestrian access behind their industrial property.

Maybe squeeze out ~350m from the current terminus to Merritt Street behind the OSCO parking lot. Then you've got a reasonably wide stretch to the plant itself along Chesley for 185m. The uncomfortable narrow section would really only be 200m to the train tracks. Dump some fill down the hillside for and get back to the 'classic' Harbour Passage from there to the lookout for 200m, following the contour of the hilltop for the last 100m of that.

[adamuptownsj]

Not to double post, but City Road is a profoundly worse choice for a 'road diet' than Crown, which
a) connects the Central Peninsula to Rockwood
b) has 5 lanes and doesn't need them all
c) has lots of housing alongside it, plus general-public-facing businesses
d) is in the Harbour Passage master plans
e) does not serve as the main car connection between the Central Peninsula and Rothesay Avenue
f) has logical endpoints (Union St and Haymarket Square)

[bingun]

I should say the map is quite old; they may have changed their plans since then. It would be nice if they released an updated one. The section by Tin Can Beach played out differently than shown, as it appears it was initially intended for Charlotte Street, Vulcan, and then Sydney, whereas they actually just ran it straight down Sydney.

The other thing I didn't mention about Chelsey Drive is the vehicles themselves. Coming down from the Reversing Falls Bridge, most vehicles speed well past the posted speed limit, with many exceeding 60-70km/h. A few times I've been along there, you can feel commercial trucks flying past, and the air almost knocks you back.

The Crown Street section presents two key challenges, in my view. One, it's a very long stretch of road from the bottom up to Rockwood Park, almost 3 kilometres. It would cost millions to install a high-quality path the full length, and even if they install it in sections, it could take a decade to complete. Second is the highway overpass that we've discussed before. I really don't know how they can solve that without reducing the lanes or building a brand-new overpass.

[sailor734]

Actually, I think Harbour Passage should be Tin Can beach to the Falls. Maybe a branch up to the Museum but anything else is overkill and a waste of resources. If the city has extra money they are looking to get rid of maybe improving/enhancing that route. Perhaps separating bikes/scooters from pedestrians?

[cdnguys]

Some Old North End News:
The Public Stairs on Main Street will be rebuilt next year. We are looking at ,with a couple groups,restoring St. Peter's Field. The marigolds will be returning to Main Street(we also do 45 marigold gardens throughout our community).The Old Forum Site along with the Huggard Property sites and the end of Shamrock Park ( Newman area)and a property on Metcalf Street(apartment building in progress)have all been purchased and will have housing. The two corners on Douglas and Main have been purchased and the church that is there is being turned into an apartment building and being added to. Doreen Fitzpatrick and friends have created beautiful sunflower murals on Main Street.The new north end school on Rope Walk Road (K-5) will open in the fall of 2027.We are trying to get a building built on the old Sears/ Zellers property and completly rebuild the parking lot and traffic at Landsdown Plaza , with streets and a bigger bus stop.
We have to make our city safer and cleaner and we need to have far more post secondary students like Fredeicton and Moncton have.We are so far behind and that is provincial tax dollars that are not staying in Saint John.
The trail at Robertson Square(now restored, including the deck and playground) on Bridge Street has a number of people who are homeless and they are moving,hopefully to our new mini home sites.There have been a number of derelict buildings torn down, the most recent on Adelaide street.The last boarded up building on Bridge street now has been purchased and is being refurbished. There are new pickle ball courts at Shamrock . We have restored and created a few more murals and have cleaned a number of areas and painted more buildingso, fences etc as we have all over the city.
It would be nice to have Rockland Road opened again as a Pedway to go to Fort Howe and have a commenoration to the " Friendship Treaties" signed with the 5 tribes of the Wabanaki Confederacy.
The NB Museum is scheduled to open 2028 and there are number of houses being restored on Douglas Avenue.It would be great to bring the trams back to Robertson Square on Bridge street and the riverboat at Saint John Marina run tours from Bridge Street and tour Pokiok,Milford,Dominion Park and Millidgeville.
There is a lot of land in the Pokiok area overlooking the Saint John / Wolastok River open for development.

[cdnguys]

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Some Old North End News:
The Public Stairs on Main Street will be rebuilt next year. We are looking at ,with a couple groups,restoring St. Peter's Field. The marigolds will be returning to Main Street(we also do 45 marigold gardens throughout our community).The Old Forum Site along with the Huggard Property sites and the end of Shamrock Park ( Newman area)and a property on Metcalf Street(apartment building in progress)have all been purchased and will have housing. The two corners on Douglas and Main have been purchased and the church that is there is being turned into an apartment building and being added to. Doreen Fitzpatrick and friends have created beautiful sunflower murals on Main Street.The new north end school on Rope Walk Road (K-5) will open in the fall of 2027.We are trying to get a building built on the old Sears/ Zellers property and completly rebuild the parking lot and traffic at Landsdown Plaza , with streets and a bigger bus stop.
We have to make our city safer and cleaner and we need to have far more post secondary students like Fredeicton and Moncton have.We are so far behind and that is provincial tax dollars that are not staying in Saint John.
The trail at Robertson Square(now restored, including the deck and playground) on Bridge Street has a number of people who are homeless and they are moving,hopefully to our new mini home sites.There have been a number of derelict buildings torn down, the most recent on Adelaide street.The last boarded up building on Bridge street now has been purchased and is being refurbished. There are new pickle ball courts at Shamrock . We have restored and created a few more murals and have cleaned a number of areas and painted more buildingso, fences etc as we have all over the city.
It would be nice to have Rockland Road opened again as a Pedway to go to Fort Howe and have a commenoration to the " Friendship Treaties" signed with the 5 tribes of the Wabanaki Confederacy.
The NB Museum is scheduled to open 2028 and there are number of houses being restored on Douglas Avenue.It would be great to bring the trams back to Robertson Square on Bridge street and the riverboat at Saint John Marina run tours from Bridge Street and tour Pokiok,Milford,Dominion Park and Millidgeville.
There is a lot of land in the Pokiok area overlooking the Saint John / Wolastok River open for development.

A number of these projects are a part of the North End secondary plan that had workshops and open houses over the last couple of days. I don't know if anyone else went, but the visions for the catalyst projects is fantastic and focuses on density and vibrancy in key areas like Landsdowne, the corner around Wellesley/Somerset/Cranston, the Old North End, and others.

Hopefully the concept renderings and draft plan are released as a PDF soon, I encourage everyone here to take a look.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

A number of these projects are a part of the North End secondary plan that had workshops and open houses over the last couple of days. I don't know if anyone else went, but the visions for the catalyst projects is fantastic and focuses on density and vibrancy in key areas like Landsdowne, the corner around Wellesley/Somerset/Cranston, the Old North End, and others.

Hopefully the concept renderings and draft plan are released as a PDF soon, I encourage everyone here to take a look.

Yes, I believe there were two meetings yesterday. I am hoping someone or one of the news organizations took some images or can provide a summary.

That or the city uploading the information on Shape Your City.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

A number of these projects are a part of the North End secondary plan that had workshops and open houses over the last couple of days. I don't know if anyone else went, but the visions for the catalyst projects is fantastic and focuses on density and vibrancy in key areas like Landsdowne, the corner around Wellesley/Somerset/Cranston, the Old North End, and others.

Hopefully the concept renderings and draft plan are released as a PDF soon, I encourage everyone here to take a look.

Oh man that's exciting! The north end has such a huge potential for infill and density. I've always thought the corner of Main & Bridge could be a great spot to infill with the water views.

And then I can see in the coming years shops/restaurants popping up if they can do the density correctly.

Fingers crossed we can see the PDF.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Has new name for Indiantown been decided upon yet as part of the new plan for the North End?

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Has new name for Indiantown been decided upon yet as part of the new plan for the North End?

I might be wrong, but I think they just say Old North End. Don’t recall where I saw that.

[sailor734]

I've heard persistent rumours Barry Ogden is seriously considering a run for mayor next May. I ran into him recently and he confirmed he was at least thinking about it.

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I've heard persistent rumours Barry Ogden is seriously considering a run for mayor next May. I ran into him recently and he confirmed he was at least thinking about it.

God save us!

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I've heard persistent rumours Barry Ogden is seriously considering a run for mayor next May. I ran into him recently and he confirmed he was at least thinking about it.

While I appreciate the work he has done and continues to do in the community, I really hope he doesn't, and I don't think he would be a good fit.

While they often contain interesting information, his Facebook posts are some of the most poorly formatted and incoherent ramblings I have seen. Maybe he's not in tune with social media, but with his background, you'd hope for better.

[cdnguys]

[irisheyes]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I might be wrong, but I think they just say Old North End. Don’t recall where I saw that.

Why not refer to the north end as Portland? That's literally the name of the former city that later became the old north end lol

[adamuptownsj]

Good drone shot of the new Retail-Ashburn Lake-Rothesay intersection. https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1131681365807678&set=a.415870017388820

The substantial lots on both sides of it both ended up much larger than I expected. One commenter says there's a rumour of a Costco gas bar on one of them... but that's likely to be a rumour only IMHO. Separately, I wonder if someone will pick up the corner of Oakland and Retail for a smallish apartment building project? Good location for something like that.

[cdnguys]

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