Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

It was 1996, when the Perimeter was completed. I have no idea why they have yet to complete the 59/101 intersection.

Actually, we'll cut the government some slack here: The NE section opened in 96. The next year came the flood of the century. That lit a fire under the NDP's ass and they diverted virtually every cent they had to making sure that the next time it happened we wouldn't be swimming to work.

That said, they still took an awfully long time to rebuild an interchange that didn't need to be closed in the first place. By that I mean that the current configuration would have been perfectly fine until they got the money together to do it right. I suppose they figured that since they'd have to replace the overpass deck just to keep the interchange open and then wind up tearing it right back down just a few years later they'd save money with another "made in Manitoba" solution.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Actually, we'll cut the government some slack here: The NE section opened in 96. The next year came the flood of the century. That lit a fire under the NDP's ass and they diverted virtually every cent they had to making sure that the next time it happened we wouldn't be swimming to work.

That said, they still took an awfully long time to rebuild an interchange that didn't need to be closed in the first place. By that I mean that the current configuration would have been perfectly fine until they got the money together to do it right. I suppose they figured that since they'd have to replace the overpass deck just to keep the interchange open and then wind up tearing it right back down just a few years later they'd save money with another "made in Manitoba" solution.

How was the old 59/101 interchange sufficient? It was made for when the perimeter dead ended at 59. Once they finished the north east section. We ended up with traffic lights and a clusterfuck of a mess that had almost weeekly accidents. So i beg to differ.

Now did they have to build this massive interchange? No. But like CP way. It’s overbuilt for the future. Just like the new Robbin overpass. It’s now wide enough for an 8 lane highway under it. I rather have MIT make things with some future thinking and not the usual like the stupid round mess they are creating in OAkbluff.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Actually, we'll cut the government some slack here: The NE section opened in 96. The next year came the flood of the century. That lit a fire under the NDP's ass and they diverted virtually every cent they had to making sure that the next time it happened we wouldn't be swimming to work.

The Conservatives were in power at the time. If the NDP was running things, we would still be 2 feet deep in water.

That said, they still took an awfully long time to rebuild an interchange that didn't need to be closed in the first place. By that I mean that the current configuration would have been perfectly fine until they got the money together to do it right. I suppose they figured that since they'd have to replace the overpass deck just to keep the interchange open and then wind up tearing it right back down just a few years later they'd save money with another "made in Manitoba" solution.

I never understood why they put up those stupid lights at the intersection either. I would have assumed it would have been fast tracked (as it should have 20 years ago), when the Taman incident occurred in 2005.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The Conservatives were in power at the time. If the NDP was running things, we would still be 2 feet deep in water.



I never understood why they put up those stupid lights at the intersection either. I would have assumed it would have been fast tracked (as it should have 20 years ago), when the Taman incident occurred in 2005.

Lol it did get fast tracked. But fast tracked Manitoba style.

[CoryB]

Around 96/97 the 59/101 interchange was planned for construction similar to what is underway now. The lights went in as a "temporary" construction detour and the NB to WB ramp was closed.

The "Flood of the Century" happened in 97 and all non-essential spending was put on hold, including the planned work at 59/101. The focus on the 98 construction season was improving flood defenses.

Before priorities could shift back to work on 59/101 the 99 election happened and brought in a change in government.

Almost ten years after the "temporary" construction detour was first put into place the accident leading to the Taman inquiry happened. The inquiry was more about the related police cover up than the mechanics of the accident though.

The "temporary" construction detour continued to age "gracefully" for about 10 more years before planning would again get underway to address 59/101.

In the time since the temporary construction detour first went up, the Perimeter saw a new interchange built for the Headingley by-pass even though the western leg of that route is still in the early proposal stage.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Around 96/97 the 59/101 interchange was planned for construction similar to what is underway now. The lights went in as a "temporary" construction detour and the NB to WB ramp was closed.

The "Flood of the Century" happened in 97 and all non-essential spending was put on hold, including the planned work at 59/101. The focus on the 98 construction season was improving flood defenses.

Before priorities could shift back to work on 59/101 the 99 election happened and brought in a change in government.

Almost ten years after the "temporary" construction detour was first put into place the accident leading to the Taman inquiry happened. The inquiry was more about the related police cover up than the mechanics of the accident though.

The "temporary" construction detour continued to age "gracefully" for about 10 more years before planning would again get underway to address 59/101.

In the time since the temporary construction detour first went up, the Perimeter saw a new interchange built for the Headingley by-pass even though the western leg of that route is still in the early proposal stage.

That actually makes sense. It totally sums up on why this interchange took so long to be finally conceived, and it's on its way to being finished at this stage of construction.

[bomberjet]

Based on the RFP document, I've shown the interchange locations for the south perimeter.

I've also shown what would be the ultimate design for locations on the north perimeter, based on similar spacing. Locations 23 and 32, would be iffy as they would be extremely low use and possible reserved for extreme future.

[cheswick]

^ I assume King Edward will see increased traffic flow once west CPT is complete and dr jose rizel merges into king Edward.

[Spocket]

My mistake about the NDP being in power when the flood of the century occurred. I just remember their obvious BS about needing union contracts for non-unionized employees to prevent work stoppages (which don't happen in non-unionized companies in the modern era) That's why I'll never vote for them.

[WildCake]

I wonder what will happen of the supposed dakota connection to Perimeter. The developers of River Park South (did I get the right neighbourhood?) have a sign at the end of dakota promising a RIRO that would eventually be built and the land to accommodate it still open to do so, although with Manitoba Infrastructure and WSP looking at shutting down uncontrolled access and limiting other access points, I wonder if that will ever go forward.

If it doesn't go ahead, there could always be a future flyover to connect Dakota further south once that area starts being developped, with no access to Perimeter

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by WildCake

I wonder what will happen of the supposed dakota connection to Perimeter. The developers of River Park South (did I get the right neighbourhood?) have a sign at the end of dakota promising a RIRO that would eventually be built and the land to accommodate it still open to do so, although with Manitoba Infrastructure and WSP looking at shutting down uncontrolled access and limiting other access points, I wonder if that will ever go forward.

If it doesn't go ahead, there could always be a future flyover to connect Dakota further south once that area starts being developped, with no access to Perimeter

Dakota was always planned as a fly over once river park south was full. Which is now. Once all the construction at the south end pollution plant is done and all the land filled in the south west corner of RT90. Then they will open up the land across the perimeter to developers. Hence why it is just farm land for all this time and never has once had a single home put on it. Just Gautheir soils and the south end pollution plant. Further south it’s all developed and has been for a long time. But those fields were set aside back in the 80s when. Vermette was made part of st vital. Yes I do know this. I lived in vermette most of my life.

Anyway it’s just a fly over. The at the time at least never invisioned actual access to the perimeter. Kinda like the stupid underpass for Raleigh for emergency’s.

[DancingDuck]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Dakota was always planned as a fly over once river park south was full. Which is now. Once all the construction at the south end pollution plant is done and all the land filled in the south west corner of RT90. Then they will open up the land across the perimeter to developers. Hence why it is just farm land for all this time and never has once had a single home put on it. Just Gautheir soils and the south end pollution plant. Further south it’s all developed and has been for a long time. But those fields were set aside back in the 80s when. Vermette was made part of st vital. Yes I do know this. I lived in vermette most of my life.

Anyway it’s just a fly over. The at the time at least never invisioned actual access to the perimeter. Kinda like the stupid underpass for Raleigh for emergency’s.

Are there plans/drawings somewhere online that show this? It's my neck of the woods and I'd be curious to see what the plan is (even if it's just a rough concept)

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Around 96/97 the 59/101 interchange was planned for construction similar to what is underway now. The lights went in as a "temporary" construction detour and the NB to WB ramp was closed.

The "Flood of the Century" happened in 97 and all non-essential spending was put on hold, including the planned work at 59/101. The focus on the 98 construction season was improving flood defenses.

Before priorities could shift back to work on 59/101 the 99 election happened and brought in a change in government.

Almost ten years after the "temporary" construction detour was first put into place the accident leading to the Taman inquiry happened. The inquiry was more about the related police cover up than the mechanics of the accident though.

The "temporary" construction detour continued to age "gracefully" for about 10 more years before planning would again get underway to address 59/101.

In the time since the temporary construction detour first went up, the Perimeter saw a new interchange built for the Headingley by-pass even though the western leg of that route is still in the early proposal stage.

The fact that the 59/101 overpass was not completed by 2000, let alone 2018, should be a point of shame for Manitoba. It should have been a big priority even during the aftermath of the Flood (98 onward). If you compare it to some of the other projects the Province has done in the last 20 years, it is even more infuriating. Imagine if Manitoba had been smart enough to run Bipole III along the East Side of the lake, and save over $1 billion?

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Based on the RFP document, I've shown the interchange locations for the south perimeter.

I've also shown what would be the ultimate design for locations on the north perimeter, based on similar spacing. Locations 23 and 32, would be iffy as they would be extremely low use and possible reserved for extreme future.

Nice find.

Having said that, the Province should really think bout making the South Perimeter a limited access highway. In order of priority, I would do the following:

1. 59/101 interchance (27-CLOVERLEAF)
2. Expand Kenaston to #75, and complete an overpass at #100 (11-CLOVERLEAF)
3. 15/101 interchange (24-CLOVERLEAF)
4. 3/100 interchange (7-DIAMOND)
5. close off 100/Waverley access completely.
6. St.Marys/100 interchange (15-DIAMOND)
7. 6/101 interchange (35-CLOVERLEAF)
8. Pipeline Rd/101 interchange (31-DIAMOND)
9. St.Anne's/100 interchange (16-DIAMOND)
10. Proposed Oakbank-Winnipeg road (25-DIAMOND)

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Dakota was always planned as a fly over once river park south was full. Which is now. Once all the construction at the south end pollution plant is done and all the land filled in the south west corner of RT90. Then they will open up the land across the perimeter to developers. Hence why it is just farm land for all this time and never has once had a single home put on it. Just Gautheir soils and the south end pollution plant. Further south it’s all developed and has been for a long time. But those fields were set aside back in the 80s when. Vermette was made part of st vital. Yes I do know this. I lived in vermette most of my life.

Anyway it’s just a fly over. The at the time at least never invisioned actual access to the perimeter. Kinda like the stupid underpass for Raleigh for emergency’s.

Very low priority.

If Winnipeg shoots to 1,000,000 residents in 20 years, and decides to build up the area of St.Vital south of the Perimeter, it will eventually make sense. Right now it make zero sense. I also noticed that they have very little room to manoever anything but an at-grade intersection for a future Dakota/100 interchange. What is interesting, is the city has left enough room around the St.Anne's/100 interchange to pull off an overpass, assuming they will buy out the 2-3 homes on the SW corner of the intersection.

[Biff]

To me the space left for Dakota by the Province looks to be for an overpass. No access and entry.....which is fine. If they build out proper interchanges at St Mary's and St Anne's they don't need access there.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Nice find.

Having said that, the Province should really think bout making the South Perimeter a limited access highway. In order of priority, I would do the following:

1. 59/101 interchance (27-CLOVERLEAF)
2. Expand Kenaston to #75, and complete an overpass at #100 (11-CLOVERLEAF)
3. 15/101 interchange (24-CLOVERLEAF)
4. 3/100 interchange (7-DIAMOND)
5. close off 100/Waverley access completely.
6. St.Marys/100 interchange (15-DIAMOND)
7. 6/101 interchange (35-CLOVERLEAF)
8. Pipeline Rd/101 interchange (31-DIAMOND)
9. St.Anne's/100 interchange (16-DIAMOND)
10. Proposed Oakbank-Winnipeg road (25-DIAMOND)

MI has put in the south perimeter study that 3/100 and st marys /100 interchanges are the next priorities. 59/101 is almost done, due for this fall.

The st norbert bypass seems like a far off plan, as the current situation while not ideal, isn't nearly as critical as all the lights on perimeter. Depending on when they finally get to the kenaston and waverley mess they might do an interchange ready for the st norbert bypass, just like how CCW is basically ready for the headingly bypass, but without any idea as to when the actual bypass will be built

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Very low priority.

If Winnipeg shoots to 1,000,000 residents in 20 years, and decides to build up the area of St.Vital south of the Perimeter, it will eventually make sense. Right now it make zero sense. I also noticed that they have very little room to manoever anything but an at-grade intersection for a future Dakota/100 interchange. What is interesting, is the city has left enough room around the St.Anne's/100 interchange to pull off an overpass, assuming they will buy out the 2-3 homes on the SW corner of the intersection.

Very low priority for sure. I was mostly curious to see if anything has come up. By the time st vital past the perimeter will be built hopefully winnipeg will grow out of its small city mentality and force the developers to pay for that flyover. It would definitely be a non-critical piece of infrastructure even if that whole area is built out

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by WildCake

MI has put in the south perimeter study that 3/100 and st marys /100 interchanges are the next priorities. 59/101 is almost done, due for this fall.

The st norbert bypass seems like a far off plan, as the current situation while not ideal, isn't nearly as critical as all the lights on perimeter. Depending on when they finally get to the kenaston and waverley mess they might do an interchange ready for the st norbert bypass, just like how CCW is basically ready for the headingly bypass, but without any idea as to when the actual bypass will be built

The Province has put so much money into Centreport, it would only make sense to reroute traffic (trucking from the US) from Pembina Hwy to Kenaston south of the city. It seems to "Winnipeg" to do a half-assed job, and leave Kenaston to end at the South Perimeter, without extending it to connect to #75.

[Biff]

The St Norbert by-pass is 5 to 10 years out. They are only doing functional design now, which is essentially a basic layout for land assembly purposes.