ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Ant131531]

That midrise project is fine I guess for the area. 14th street is starting to urbanize. Would like to see dense apartment midrises line the street from Midtown to the West Midtown area. It would give the Home Park residents a main urban avenue.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

Rendering of Pollack Shores 14th street in Midtown.
https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/multifamily/exclusive-look-pollack-shores-14th-st-project-54352

OOOooooo man 14th Street NW between Midtown and the development around Howell Mill may be a functional pedestrian thoroughfare sooner than I've been anticipating! Mixed use developments along this street will do wonders for the CoA. Assuming they have occasional ground floor retail. I'd hate to see mid-rise apartments and condos like at/near Atlantic Station that have nothing engaging for the pedestrians.

[jsvh]

themaguffin - The fix for traffic in perimeter is not to stop growing. Even if everyone wanted that as a solution, it would be almost impossible to effectively enforce.

[themaguffin]

themaguffin - The fix for traffic in perimeter is not to stop growing. Even if everyone wanted that as a solution, it would be almost impossible to effectively enforce.

I never said not growing is a fix. I'm stating that these developments add to the problem.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

I never said not growing is a fix. I'm stating that these developments add to the problem.

Conversely, I think you are misinterpreting what we mean as well. YES - short-term there will undoubtedly be more traffic problems in the Perimeter with these high density developments. However at some point when the problem reaches a pinnacle sometime in the future, either the taxpayers will get their greedy heads out of their @$$es and agree to increase sales taxes to fund transportation projects or the state and/or federal government directs the resources to a solution.

[themaguffin]

I think you are misinterpreting what we mean as well. YES - short-term there will undoubtedly be more traffic problems in the Perimeter with these high density developments. However at some point when the problem reaches a pinnacle sometime in the future, either the taxpayers will get their greedy heads out of their @$$es and agree to increase sales taxes to fund transportation projects or the state and/or federal government directs the resources to a solution.

You are very optimistic. I don't mean to sound harsh. I like what's happening in places like Midtown - which is also a place where such developments should happen. Hoping for improved ways to get to Perimeter also misses the point that explosive growth of an edge city is inherently anti-urban and misguided.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

You are very optimistic. I don't mean to sound harsh. I like what's happening in places like Midtown - which is also a place where such developments should happen. Hoping for improved ways to get to Perimeter also misses the point that explosive growth of an edge city is inherently anti-urban and misguided.

I prefer to think I am realistic.

Have you noticed the massive developments happening in Dallas? Are they happening in Uptown or Downtown Dallas? No. They are happening in Plano and Legacy. Why - because the cost to build outside the core is 20 - 50% cheaper than to build in the core of the city. Atlanta will not grow and attract large corporate relocations unless we allow areas like the Perimeter to greatly increase density.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

There is equipment on the NCR site. Looks they've started doing some work over near the student dorms and the existing parking deck.

Also 7th Street two-way conversion is underway this month:

7th Street Two-way Conversion - The Connect Atlanta Plan calls for 7th Street to be converted to two-way traffic between West Peachtree St. and Piedmont Ave. Design plans have been permitted and construction awarded. Contractors will mobilize in January to complete the full conversion, including traffic signals, signage, and re-striping by April 2016.

Hope it includes adding a signal at West Peachtree + crosswalks.

[Frankster87]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Not everybody lives in a straight line and has transit options. The shuttle buses typically are very local in nature or to get to MARTA. Once again, you have options that others do not. In what world does everyone have reasonable access to transit? I guess I forgot how we are the poster city for transit...

You choose to live in a part of town without sufficient access to transit. There are also east and west lines. Also, GRTA, CCT, GCT, and Marta combined run several regional routes. My mother takes transit from Cherokee county to Downtown Atlanta via a GRTA express bus. My sister takes takes GRTA or CCT express buses from kennesaw to Midtown for work.

The point I make is that there really are very few places in the Metro where you can't ride some form of Mass transit to and from work. If express busses aren't good enough for you then pressure your representatives to support rail-based transit, or move to a part of the Metro with access to Marta rail. Or sit in traffic.

[Frankster87]

Originally Posted by daharris80

And you don't see the irony in the fact that you're arguing for how useful Marta is at the same time it requires you to own two cars?

It's tough for transit to chase sprawl. Alpharetta should have never been a jobs center.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

People who tend to like this don't work at Perimeter. I don't think many grasp the serious issues in the area.

I lived or worked there for probably 7 or 8 years altogether. I never had any serious problems. It has traffic like any higher density area, but you just need to learn the back routes and walk or use transit when possible. I live in Midtown now, and despite having a proper grid the traffic is just as bad if you stay on the roads everyone uses (the ones that connect to freeways, mostly).

Perimeter is doing everything right. It's a model suburb as far as I'm concerned. They have a loose grid, sidewalks, bike lanes, and transit stations... the development patterns don't need to focus entirely on getting cars in and out quickly. Leave that to the outer suburbs and others that don't have the multimodal infrastructure Perimeter has.

[ATLonthebrain]

Anybody been past the Post Millennium Midtown site lately? I was last in town back in Sept and they were pretty busy at the site. Don't think anyone has mentioned it in a while. Just checking..seems like it should be coming out of the ground by now..thanks!

[themaguffin]

I lived or worked there for probably 7 or 8 years altogether. I never had any serious problems. It has traffic like any higher density area, but you just need to learn the back routes and walk or use transit when possible

There are no back roads in the area - especially for those of us at Ravinia, where and traffic back ups on 400 - yes 400 causing 285 WB traffic trying to get on 400 NB block the Ashford Dunwoody ramp to 285 WB. Of course 285 congestion causes Ashford Dunwoody back up as well, but 285 WB can be fine and traffic still jammed because of 400.

What this means for Ravinia, is that people are stuck in the complex for as long 30 minutes. You can't take back roads, when you can even get out.

Oh yeah, the shuttle to MARTA is also stuck because it can't get through first traffic light as well.

The proposed development on Friday would put several buildings behind the Best Buy etc all the way to the under construction State Farm building.

Hammond at Peachtree Dunwoody RD is also jammed in the afternoons and that's without the additional State Farm employees or this mega project.

They built a bridge cuts over towards the hospitals a few years ago, but traffic is jammed there with hospital/office traffic trying to get to 285 and 400.

Perimeter Center West is often jammed from Ashford Dunwoody to 400 as it is. And that's without the above mentioned projects or the one announced earlier this week closer to 400.

There is a national trend in working in cities... we're even seeing NCR move into the city and yet... these projects are announced in suburban area that cannot accommodate existing demand.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

There is a cam for Phase 2 of Avalon in Alpharetta up here:

https://www.workzonecam.com/projects/precisionconcrete/avalonphase2/workzonecam1

And one for Hanover Perimeter here:

https://www.workzonecam.com/projects/precisionconcrete/hanoverperimeter/workzonecam1

And Atlantic house has reached the large patio floor. So only 3 more floors left to the amenity level, and then the crown on top of that to be topped out.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

And one for Hanover Perimeter here:

https://www.workzonecam.com/projects/precisionconcrete/hanoverperimeter/workzonecam1

I hadn't heard of this project, but it looks to be a nice urban design for perimeter.

http://www.cororealty.com/sites/default/files/hanover_at_perimeter_town_center_flyer.pdf

Retail along Peachtree Dunwoody and at the corner of at Hammond. Looks to have sidewalks on all sides, so theoretically it could be part of a larger block system in that area when it's redeveloped. It's not perfect, but it's better than most development in that area. This is the type of development that perimeter needs to work in the long run.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

There are no back roads in the area - especially for those of us at Ravinia, where and traffic back ups on 400 - yes 400 causing 285 WB traffic trying to get on 400 NB block the Ashford Dunwoody ramp to 285 WB. Of course 285 congestion causes Ashford Dunwoody back up as well, but 285 WB can be fine and traffic still jammed because of 400.

What this means for Ravinia, is that people are stuck in the complex for as long 30 minutes. You can't take back roads, when you can even get out.

Oh yeah, the shuttle to MARTA is also stuck because it can't get through first traffic light as well.

The proposed development on Friday would put several buildings behind the Best Buy etc all the way to the under construction State Farm building.

Hammond at Peachtree Dunwoody RD is also jammed in the afternoons and that's without the additional State Farm employees or this mega project.

They built a bridge cuts over towards the hospitals a few years ago, but traffic is jammed there with hospital/office traffic trying to get to 285 and 400.

Perimeter Center West is often jammed from Ashford Dunwoody to 400 as it is. And that's without the above mentioned projects or the one announced earlier this week closer to 400.

There is a national trend in working in cities... we're even seeing NCR move into the city and yet... these projects are announced in suburban area that cannot accommodate existing demand.

I can only go by my own experience... I've driven many a road in Perimeter with very little traffic while the next one over was gridlocked.

Anyway, the reality is that where there's density, there's traffic. It can be a killer in a car-dependent area, but these developments are mixing office, retail and residential in a walkable area with a transit station right down the street... the only people who have to drive to them are the ones who are coming in from other areas that have no transit... philosophically it's no different than any other urban core (and yes, it is a core, albeit for Sandy Springs / Dunwoody rather than Atlanta).

Have you seen the Connector during rush hour? Yikes! It can't handle the existing demand from drivers either, but that's no reason to stop building in Midtown or Downtown. Cities aren't supposed to be good places for cars. Can you imagine how sprawled out everything would be if we stopped building every time there was rush hour traffic? What Perimeter is doing is the solution to that problem, which is to give people options for getting around and living closer to work, so those who find driving intolerable can take advantage of them.

[bigstick]

Is it me, or I am amazed at the lack of progress on the Alliance in Buckhead and Modera Midtown and Yoo on the Park

[themaguffin]

Anyway, the reality is that where there's density, there's traffic. It can be a killer in a car-dependent area, but these developments are mixing office, retail and residential in a walkable area with a transit station right down the street... the only people who have to drive to them are the ones who are coming in from other areas that have no transit... philosophically it's no different than any other urban core (and yes, it is a core, albeit for Sandy Springs / Dunwoody rather than Atlanta).

Have you seen the Connector during rush hour? Yikes! It can't handle the existing demand from drivers either, but that's no reason to stop building in Midtown or Downtown. Cities aren't supposed to be good places for cars.

The problem with Perimeter though is that it's not designed for density and these projects won't really create density correctly. Perimeter doesn't have an urban infrastructure. MARTA is there, yes, but it only marginally helps because it has limited places to go that many workers live. Telling people to go live near MARTA is not helpful. I'm sure a lot of people would like to live near MARTA, but life isn't that simple.

Downtown and many urban centers have more traffic than they can handle, but at least they are the urban core and for the traffic they have, there are more options for transit and more places for cars to go. Outside of the spine of Peachtree, the Connector and few other pockets, one can navigate downtown to get places.

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Is it me, or I am amazed at the lack of progress on the Alliance in Buckhead and Modera Midtown and Yoo on the Park

I don't think it is you. I have been watching this snail assembly as well. They did have an accident that delayed them.However, one thing appears notable when you look at this project day by day and that is that they clearly don't have any work room to put all their construction materials away from the site itself. The work area is always covered with "stuff" and that means that they have to constantly move materials before working on an area. You also see a lot of construction of components taking place directly on the building platform. This is clearly not Novare! As it gets colder I assume it will get even slower.

[GTdan]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Is it me, or I am amazed at the lack of progress on the Alliance in Buckhead and Modera Midtown and Yoo on the Park

Yoo is on floor 13 now. Seems to be going at a pretty normal pace. I agree with you on Modera Midtown though. It seems like they have been spending a lot of time with the foundation work.