The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[harls]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Of course he can. I know on his channel he usually is good with naming them so that you know either the line or the city that it is referring to. I loathe click bait. It is the bane of life these days.

I'll go back to being the disgruntled vet yelling at the clouds.

Hey, what is this video you guys are all talking about? I wanna take a look. It sure sounds interesting!

(You are perpetuating the thing you hate)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! No!!! No it does not! There you go again with ridiculously outrageous statements! Please stop. This is why nobody takes you seriously on this forum!

Supply chain issues have shown that there are a variety of bottlenecks in this country. Having enough space for more trains to run is one of them.

Originally Posted by harls

Hey, what is this video you guys are all talking about? I wanna take a look. It sure sounds interesting!

(You are perpetuating the thing you hate)

His videos are great. And usually, the titles are great. I am not upset if he gets more views for my "old man yells at cloud" ranting.

[ssiguy]

London's Downtown Loops BRT northern section on Queens & Ridout started pre-construction in March but is now going 24 hours a day for the next few weeks. This section will not be near as disruptive as the now completed, thank God, King Street southern section. King Street is a vibrant shopping/rest/entertainment street while Queen & Ridout is mostly just office buildings.

The Downtown Loop must be completed before the 2 main BRT routes are, The Eastern & Wellington. The Eastern route will be the first completed by late 2024.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Supply chain issues have shown that there are a variety of bottlenecks in this country. Having enough space for more trains to run is one of them.

That doesnt mean double tracking every mile of mainline in the country. The majority of the bottlenecks occur in yards that were designed to receive and dispatch 6000ft trains which are now handling 12000ft mixed freight and 16000ft intermodal trains. Yard capacity is the main issue not mainline capacity although that does exist in places for sure.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

That doesnt mean double tracking every mile of mainline in the country. The majority of the bottlenecks occur in yards that were designed to receive and dispatch 6000ft trains which are now handling 12000ft mixed freight and 16000ft intermodal trains. Yard capacity is the main issue not mainline capacity although that does exist in places for sure.

And that is where to do it. Not ever mile, but do it where the capacity has peaked. Where adding one more train whether it be freight or passenger, would be too much.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

And that is where to do it. Not ever mile, but do it where the capacity has peaked. Where adding one more train whether it be freight or passenger, would be too much.

You said every mainline in Canada. Choose your words more carefully then if thats not what you meant.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

You said every mainline in Canada. Choose your words more carefully then if thats not what you meant.

Every mainline should be double tracked. The reality is if they announce tomorrow that it would be done as fast as possible, it would take decades for a variety of reasons. Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As far as how they were to do it, I'd expect the busiest subdivisions done first, followed by the cheapest sections.

SWO would be done first as it is cheap and busy. Then we could run more passenger service along that area.

No different than how governments do public transit.

[MalcolmTucker]

Why would SWO be done first? Is there any evidence it is needed for additional freight capacity there?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Why would SWO be done first? Is there any evidence it is needed for additional freight capacity there?

It was stated that Via won't add another train due to lack of capacity. That tells me that if the person stated that was being truthful, there is a good chance that there may be a need for more capacity there.

The topography is better than the mountains to put in a second set of tracks.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It was stated that Via won't add another train due to lack of capacity. That tells me that if the person stated that was being truthful, there is a good chance that there may be a need for more capacity there.

The topography is better than the mountains to put in a second set of tracks.

But, a VIA train requires much more capacity than a freight train. And VIA needs that capacity at an optimal time. You might be displacing 3 or 4 daytime precision railroading just in time delivery trains, while general freight wise there is a lot of capacity at night.



It isn't so simple.

[J.OT13]

After 4 years of sitting idle, the fare machines along the S/E Transitway in Ottawa have finally been activated. Others have been added at suburban stations as well.

Each Transitway station has two available, while rail station have between two and nine. Riders can buy single fares, day passes, family passes, monthly pass or load their Presto.



https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/new-ticket-machines-available

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

But, a VIA train requires much more capacity than a freight train. And VIA needs that capacity at an optimal time. You might be displacing 3 or 4 daytime precision railroading just in time delivery trains, while general freight wise there is a lot of capacity at night.



It isn't so simple.

I realize there is a lot more to it than just add a train.I'll be honest, I don't know what it is though. In places that are already double tracked, adding more may have other limitations we are not aware of. But, SWO isn't double tracked. That tells me that double tracking the busiest parts could add the needed space for more trains, not just for Via.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Every mainline should be double tracked. The reality is if they announce tomorrow that it would be done as fast as possible, it would take decades for a variety of reasons. Still doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. As far as how they were to do it, I'd expect the busiest subdivisions done first, followed by the cheapest sections.

SWO would be done first as it is cheap and busy. Then we could run more passenger service along that area.

No different than how governments do public transit.

Just stop! You sound ridiculous. Youre telling me that the Sussex sub should be double tracked to service the one train a day that runs on it. You clearly have no idea what a mainline is.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I realize there is a lot more to it than just add a train.I'll be honest, I don't know what it is though. In places that are already double tracked, adding more may have other limitations we are not aware of. But, SWO isn't double tracked. That tells me that double tracking the busiest parts could add the needed space for more trains, not just for Via.

SWO was double tracked between London and Sarnia. Hunter Harrison the CEO of CN who introduced the so called Precision Scheduled Railroad ripped up the double track and added Centralized Train Control instead. The problem is freight trains rarely adhere to their schedule and the volume has grown. Even though train size has basically doubled there is still not enough capacity. PSR is primarily a cost cutting measure to placate shareholders.

In the west, Hunter Harrison also ripped out sections of double track in Jasper National Park. These sections have still not been reinstalled. Luckily the amount of track ripped out was limited before he could do much damage. Whole route between Edmonton and Tete Jaune Cache should be fully double tracked.

Also some previously short sidings have been ripped out to reuse the rail to extend other sidings.

Some routes that could be used to handle excess traffic on the Montreal-Toronto mainline were ripped out such as the Ottawa Valley routes on both the CPR and CNR. The northern prairie route through Lloydminster and North Battleford could be used to handle more freight trains and reduce the congestion in the yards and on the mainline through Saskatoon.

The railways are to quick to get rid of routes and the government does not prevent them from doing so or assist them to maintain the secondary routes.

[J81]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

SWO was double tracked between London and Sarnia. Hunter Harrison the CEO of CN who introduced the so called Precision Scheduled Railroad ripped up the double track and added Centralized Train Control instead. The problem is freight trains rarely adhere to their schedule and the volume has grown. Even though train size has basically doubled there is still not enough capacity. PSR is primarily a cost cutting measure to placate shareholders.

In the west, Hunter Harrison also ripped out sections of double track in Jasper National Park. These sections have still not been reinstalled. Luckily the amount of track ripped out was limited before he could do much damage. Whole route between Edmonton and Tete Jaune Cache should be fully double tracked.

Also some previously short sidings have been ripped out to reuse the rail to extend other sidings.

Some routes that could be used to handle excess traffic on the Montreal-Toronto mainline were ripped out such as the Ottawa Valley routes on both the CPR and CNR. The northern prairie route through Lloydminster and North Battleford could be used to handle more freight trains and reduce the congestion in the yards and on the mainline through Saskatoon.

The railways are to quick to get rid of routes and the government does not prevent them from doing so or assist them to maintain the secondary routes.

Thats not entirely correct. Centralized traffic control is just a method of control on a section of mainline. The Strathroy sub between London and Sarnia was always CTC even when it was double tracked. One has nothing to do with the other. You are correct that portions of the double track were ripped up and now there is one 3 mile section and one 6 mile section between approximately mike 14 and mile 55 or so. Terrible mistake as that is probably one of the busiest subs in the country. Basically every CN train from eastern Canada into the US midwest runs across there.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by J81

Thats not entirely correct. Centralized traffic control is just a method of control on a section of mainline. The Strathroy sub between London and Sarnia was always CTC even when it was double tracked. One has nothing to do with the other. You are correct that portions of the double track were ripped up and now there is one 3 mile section and one 6 mile section between approximately mike 14 and mile 55 or so. Terrible mistake as that is probably one of the busiest subs in the country. Basically every CN train from eastern Canada into the US midwest runs across there.

I believe that the line was not CTC controlled but rather had ABS without the capability of running trains on the opposite track and no or few switches for changing which mainline track the train was running on. This is the same as the CP line between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg which is mostly single track with long sidings.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Just stop! You sound ridiculous. Youre telling me that the Sussex sub should be double tracked to service the one train a day that runs on it. You clearly have no idea what a mainline is.

You sound even more ridiculous pointing to that subdivision when we are talking SWO. Point out a CN or CP mainline in Ontario that is not double tracked, and is not near capacity.

Originally Posted by GoTrans

SWO was double tracked between London and Sarnia. Hunter Harrison the CEO of CN who introduced the so called Precision Scheduled Railroad ripped up the double track and added Centralized Train Control instead. The problem is freight trains rarely adhere to their schedule and the volume has grown. Even though train size has basically doubled there is still not enough capacity. PSR is primarily a cost cutting measure to placate shareholders.

In the west, Hunter Harrison also ripped out sections of double track in Jasper National Park. These sections have still not been reinstalled. Luckily the amount of track ripped out was limited before he could do much damage. Whole route between Edmonton and Tete Jaune Cache should be fully double tracked.

Also some previously short sidings have been ripped out to reuse the rail to extend other sidings.

Some routes that could be used to handle excess traffic on the Montreal-Toronto mainline were ripped out such as the Ottawa Valley routes on both the CPR and CNR. The northern prairie route through Lloydminster and North Battleford could be used to handle more freight trains and reduce the congestion in the yards and on the mainline through Saskatoon.

The railways are to quick to get rid of routes and the government does not prevent them from doing so or assist them to maintain the secondary routes.

The 1990s in Canadian rail really was a dark time. We are reaping those times now. Hopefully we have learned from it and won't allow it to happen again.

[casper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You sound even more ridiculous pointing to that subdivision when we are talking SWO. Point out a CN or CP mainline in Ontario that is not double tracked, and is not near capacity.



The 1990s in Canadian rail really was a dark time. We are reaping those times now. Hopefully we have learned from it and won't allow it to happen again.

So would part of that learning not be if the government is going to dump money into things like double tracking it does it through VIA rail. VIA owned the tracks and charges CN/CP to access the track.

The tax payer has contributed to CN/CP infrastructure over the years to see the "national railways" limit access to commuter rail project and VIA operations. About time those assets stay in the hands of the public.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by casper

So would part of that learning not be if the government is going to dump money into things like double tracking it does it through VIA rail. VIA owned the tracks and charges CN/CP to access the track.

The tax payer has contributed to CN/CP infrastructure over the years to see the "national railways" limit access to commuter rail project and VIA operations. About time those assets stay in the hands of the public.

We did that with CN and then sold them off. Better would be to have some sort of future proofed legal binding agreement with all rail carriers that the government can dictate the number of passenger trains on the line and the ability to fine the company if those trains are late.This would mean that freight would need to wait for passenger trains. This would also mean that the companies would see that their only option is to add another track to keep their revenue trains running.

[casper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

We did that with CN and then sold them off. Better would be to have some sort of future proofed legal binding agreement with all rail carriers that the government can dictate the number of passenger trains on the line and the ability to fine the company if those trains are late.This would mean that freight would need to wait for passenger trains. This would also mean that the companies would see that their only option is to add another track to keep their revenue trains running.

In the case of BC Rail, the province leased the lines to CN with the right to run passenger service in the future.