The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

It surprised me that the new host of Information Morning wrote that sloppy hit piece on the City. Previous hosts have expressed their love for the City and have been loved in return-although they have not been afraid to take on tough issues. Let’s hope she moves on to greener pastures soon.

I don't know, I've read some other comment that she's from Montreal, etc, but come on... do we really need to have such a nit-picky attitude against "outsiders" sharing their perspectives and outlooks about the Saint John Region? We shouldn't only want people to come here and be model Saint Johners that drink the kool-aid and don't have anything critical to say... especially not a talk radio host that's supposed to critically cover issues impacting the city. Like, the Saint John Region is a bit of a mess to outsiders. Personally, I think it's crazy how the region isn't amalgamated into a single municipality with the outlying suburbs, like would be the case in most other parts of Canada, but Saint John and New Brunswick is especially resistant to change, and NB as a province has some especially archaic ways of doing things (like a regressive property tax system and extremely cynical attitudes against regional amalgamation).

Yet, it seems when outsiders like myself who've moved here from elsewhere (like myself) bring up some things that we don't like about the way things are done here in Saint John, or in New Brunswick as a whole, or bring up things that could be approved, a lot locals that have lived here their whole lives get defensive, as if we're slamming the city and province, when really, we also like it here, and just we want to see things improve. Plus many of us have lived in places that do a lot of things, a lot better. no offence!

While this article could be considered somewhat of a hit-piece, and I think the map and methodology used to make it were flawed, the article did bring up a lot of points worth discussing, and brought light to a lot of issues that make green spaces less accessible in Saint John than in other places. Like, I guess there isn't a bus that goes all the way to the entrance of Irving Nature Park, but perhaps there should be? While Adam pointed out there is bus service to get people to Rockwood Park, I'm sure that could also be improved.


___________


If the local CBC really want to make a hit piece with a map/national ranking regarding parks and recreation, they should do another one for outdoor hockey rink locations in Saint John per capita and compare it to other cities in Canada, including ones with comparably mild climates. The city of Saint John is looking at spending $250,000 to build a cricket pitch, while we have a $500,000 outdoor hockey facility beside TD Station that remains locked up and inaccessible for the entirety of the winter season... and not a single city owned outdoor hockey rink for residents to use during the winter season.

The City of Toronto, with an even milder winter climate than Saint John, operates over 50 outdoor hockey rinks... and believe it or not, the city of Toronto is not 50 times bigger than Saint John... it's only about 40 times bigger.

Rothesay is 7.5 times smaller than Saint John, and they have a great outdoor hockey rink (with a not so great list of rules and schedule attached to it)

The City of Saint John can't even get their act together to build a single outdoor hockey rink for our national winter sport, which I think is pretty pathetic... especially when I hear from some city councillors that pickeball courts are considered a higher priority. Because, last time I checked, ice hockey is the most popular sport in Saint John, not pickle-ball, and especially not cricket. Although, I can at least see the case for a cricket pitch, since such a facility could help Saint John attract newcomers from the 10 or so "cricket obsessed" countries.

Still, for the life of me, I just can't understand why outdoor hockey rinks are considered such a low priority here in "Canada's oldest city". Having an outdoor hockey rink to play shinny on during the winter would fundamentally improve winter recreation in Saint John.

I still think there's a case to get a roof built on the facility near harbour station, and just enough days well below freezing to make it worth it, but obviously, the best case scenario would be a newly constructed outdoor hockey rink designed with a chiller from the start!

[JakeNB]

Envision- I thought you were going to spearhead the campaign to raise the funds for the roof on the ball hockey rink. How’s that going?

[homebody]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don't know, I've read some other comment that she's from Montreal, etc, but come on... do we really need to have such a nit-picky attitude against "outsiders" sharing their perspectives and outlooks about the Saint John Region? We shouldn't only want people to come here and be model Saint Johners that drink the kool-aid and don't have anything critical to say... especially not a talk radio host that's supposed to critically cover issues impacting the city. Like, the Saint John Region is a bit of a mess to outsiders. Personally, I think it's crazy how the region isn't amalgamated into a single municipality with the outlying suburbs, like would be the case in most other parts of Canada, but Saint John and New Brunswick is especially resistant to change, and NB as a province has some especially archaic ways of doing things (like a regressive property tax system and extremely cynical attitudes against regional amalgamation).

Yet, it seems when outsiders like myself who've moved here from elsewhere (like myself) bring up some things that we don't like about the way things are done here in Saint John, or in New Brunswick as a whole, or bring up things that could be approved, a lot locals that have lived here their whole lives get defensive, as if we're slamming the city and province, when really, we also like it here, and just we want to see things improve. Plus many of us have lived in places that do a lot of things, a lot better. no offence!

While this article could be considered somewhat of a hit-piece, and I think the map and methodology used to make it were flawed, the article did bring up a lot of points worth discussing, and brought light to a lot of issues that make green spaces less accessible in Saint John than in other places. Like, I guess there isn't a bus that goes all the way to the entrance of Irving Nature Park, but perhaps there should be? While Adam pointed out there is bus service to get people to Rockwood Park, I'm sure that could also be improved.


___________


If the local CBC really want to make a hit piece with a map/national ranking regarding parks and recreation, they should do another one for outdoor hockey rink locations in Saint John per capita and compare it to other cities in Canada, including ones with comparably mild climates. The city of Saint John is looking at spending $250,000 to build a cricket pitch, while we have a $500,000 outdoor hockey facility beside TD Station that remains locked up and inaccessible for the entirety of the winter season... and not a single city owned outdoor hockey rink for residents to use during the winter season.

The City of Toronto, with an even milder winter climate than Saint John, operates over 50 outdoor hockey rinks... and believe it or not, the city of Toronto is not 50 times bigger than Saint John... it's only about 40 times bigger.

Rothesay is 7.5 times smaller than Saint John, and they have a great outdoor hockey rink (with a not so great list of rules and schedule attached to it)

The City of Saint John can't even get their act together to build a single outdoor hockey rink for our national winter sport, which I think is pretty pathetic... especially when I hear from some city councillors that pickeball courts are considered a higher priority. Because, last time I checked, ice hockey is the most popular sport in Saint John, not pickle-ball, and especially not cricket. Although, I can at least see the case for a cricket pitch, since such a facility could help Saint John attract newcomers from the 10 or so "cricket obsessed" countries.

Still, for the life of me, I just can't understand why outdoor hockey rinks are considered such a low priority here in "Canada's oldest city". Having an outdoor hockey rink to play shinny on during the winter would fundamentally improve winter recreation in Saint John.

I still think there's a case to get a roof built on the facility near harbour station, and just enough days well below freezing to make it worth it, but obviously, the best case scenario would be a newly constructed outdoor hockey rink designed with a chiller from the start!

Honest to God man. Take no offense but have you thought about a career in journalism? You’re quite a writer. But can we ever get the short version? Please😊?

[irisheyes]

Saint John should be renamed and its boundaries completely redrawn to annex the suburbs and subtract the empty rural areas within city limits. Doesn't have to require massive administrative changes. Make each municipality a district with its own admin. Basically status quo but operating as a single city. Brunswick City, NB lol have at it.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Envision- I thought you were going to spearhead the campaign to raise the funds for the roof on the ball hockey rink. How’s that going?

Still formulating my approach lol, any advice on who to contact at the city, province, or other relevant organizations? Hope you can join the cause, Jake

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by homebody

Honest to God man. Take no offense but have you thought about a career in journalism? You’re quite a writer. But can we ever get the short version? Please😊?

lol thanks. Hopefully you found my posts on the subject more interesting than the CBC article. Shakespeare said brevity is the soul of wit, and sometimes I forget that. It’s easy to forget when there’s so much to be improved when it comes to SJ.

Originally Posted by irisheyes

Saint John should be renamed and its boundaries completely redrawn to annex the suburbs and subtract the empty rural areas within city limits. Doesn't have to require massive administrative changes. Make each municipality a district with its own admin. Basically status quo but operating as a single city. Brunswick City, NB lol have at it.

Would certainly be preferable to the status quo today where the outer suburbs aren’t paying their fair share towards a regional budget.

New Brunswick City, NB or Brunswick City, NB would both be good names and drastically reduce the confusion with St. John’s that some locals like to pretend doesn’t happen or isn’t a problem lol 🙄

Wolastoq and Fundy would both be good names too, but if I had my choice, New Cork, NB all the way!

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Still formulating my approach lol, any advice on who to contact at the city, province, or other relevant organizations? Hope you can join the cause, Jake

You may recall that I didn’t think it was a great idea, but you seemed to think that organizations would be lining up to contribute. Guess not?

[bingun]

Sydney Street Courthouse - From Facebook.

[sailor734]

https://thechambersj.com/saint-john-region-chamber-calls-for-urgent-action/

Chamber of Commerce adds their voice to the calls for urgent action on the growing homelessness problem and the issues surrounding it

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

https://thechambersj.com/saint-john-region-chamber-calls-for-urgent-action/

Chamber of Commerce adds their voice to the calls for urgent action on the growing homelessness problem and the issues surrounding it

I live and work uptown and problem really exploded in last few weeks. Just in last day scavenging around back yard looking for items to steal and knocking over things on purpose. King Street between Germain and Charlotte is disgusting - guy took a big ole crap by CIBC - steps and entry ways disgusting now from them hanging out. Cathedral lawn on Waterloo St looks like a mini Philly Kensington District. Neighbor had BBQ stolen and watched in progress a theft of e-scooter The Yogi Bear Jellystone park on Garden street looks like a bicycle chop shop. The Estates of Paradise Row now have actual windows. Watched a guy with a wheelbarrow carrying fresh lumber from a construction site to Jellystone

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I live and work uptown and problem really exploded in last few weeks. Just in last day scavenging around back yard looking for items to steal and knocking over things on purpose. King Street between Germain and Charlotte is disgusting - guy took a big ole crap by CIBC - steps and entry ways disgusting now from them hanging out. Cathedral lawn on Waterloo St looks like a mini Philly Kensington District. Neighbor had BBQ stolen and watched in progress a theft of e-scooter The Yogi Bear Jellystone park on Garden street looks like a bicycle chop shop. The Estates of Paradise Row now have actual windows. Watched a guy with a wheelbarrow carrying fresh lumber from a construction site to Jellystone

There is a thing on Facebook called Chronicles of Waterloo St. Some videos there that make you think maybe our society really is doomed.

Seeing lots of what they call "the fentanyl-fold"

https://www.addictioncenter.com/communit...spent%20in%20an%20unnatural%20position.t

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by sailor734

https://thechambersj.com/saint-john-region-chamber-calls-for-urgent-action/

Chamber of Commerce adds their voice to the calls for urgent action on the growing homelessness problem and the issues surrounding it

If only there would be real action. Many times we've seen this and it goes nowhere. Seemingly the more that comes out of the homelessness issue is a lot of people just don't want to play by societies rules and are getting a pass to do drugs, beg for money, vandalize and cause havoc to their surroundings.

I totally understand there will be those who did have a run of bad luck or some mental health issues, but I don't think this will ever truly end until either homelessness is considered a crime or taking drugs out in the open is a punishable offense with many many years of jail time.

There is a whole lot of nuance on the topic but at what point does it hit the "enough is enough" line and some strong actions are taken. If you arrested those being homeless & taking drugs on the street and you said that's 50 years of jail time OR 5 years maximum + mandatory therapy, college courses, halfway house time, years of probation and guidance to get back to a normal life. Would you not see an uptick of those being willing to re-integrate into a normal life? If you start giving people the option of life or death, I feel like life with guidance, care and assistant getting back to society would be great.

Until we stop seeing videos online from all over the world where people are more than happy not to work, get their clean needles, soup kitchens and the occasional handouts beside a traffic light, there needs to be a more severe action taken against them.

Why should my friends, family, colleagues live our lives in a normal way need to be impacted by the safety of those that want to "rebel".

Again I could be way off on the thinking but clearly what's being done now isn't working.

[adamuptownsj]

Not way off at all. There's enough state capacity to make your life miserable for building a deck without a permit, so there's enough state capacity to stop all of this in 24 hours. It's just totally mis-allocated. Two thirds of fire calls are basically junkie maintenance service, and probably more for the police.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

If only there would be real action. Many times we've seen this and it goes nowhere. Seemingly the more that comes out of the homelessness issue is a lot of people just don't want to play by societies rules and are getting a pass to do drugs, beg for money, vandalize and cause havoc to their surroundings.

I totally understand there will be those who did have a run of bad luck or some mental health issues, but I don't think this will ever truly end until either homelessness is considered a crime or taking drugs out in the open is a punishable offense with many many years of jail time.

There is a whole lot of nuance on the topic but at what point does it hit the "enough is enough" line and some strong actions are taken. If you arrested those being homeless & taking drugs on the street and you said that's 50 years of jail time OR 5 years maximum + mandatory therapy, college courses, halfway house time, years of probation and guidance to get back to a normal life. Would you not see an uptick of those being willing to re-integrate into a normal life? If you start giving people the option of life or death, I feel like life with guidance, care and assistant getting back to society would be great.

Until we stop seeing videos online from all over the world where people are more than happy not to work, get their clean needles, soup kitchens and the occasional handouts beside a traffic light, there needs to be a more severe action taken against them.

Why should my friends, family, colleagues live our lives in a normal way need to be impacted by the safety of those that want to "rebel".

Again I could be way off on the thinking but clearly what's being done now isn't working.

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, most of your points seem to be predicated on people making a willful choice to fall into homelessness. No healthy person chooses to be homeless – regardless of whether or not being homeless is illegal (which would be ridiculous to begin with). The problem is that once someone becomes homeless it can be very difficult to get out of that situation, and that is exacerbated by mental health issues and substance abuse (which more often than not starts after they become homeless, not before).

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, most of your points seem to be predicated on people making a willful choice to fall into homelessness. No healthy person chooses to be homeless – regardless of whether or not being homeless is illegal (which would be ridiculous to begin with). The problem is that once someone becomes homeless it can be very difficult to get out of that situation, and that is exacerbated by mental health issues and substance abuse (which more often than not starts after they become homeless, not before).

Are people not willfully taking fentanyl, meth, heroin etc? At some point there must be a decision where someone was in a "right state of mind" to take that drug correct? Or a healthy person made the choice. The part that I don't understand is how is making these bad choices don't have the jail/prison repercussions as other criminal activity.

Everyone had the D.A.R.E, don't do drugs talks, seminars as a kid.
I'm guessing if you can't make homelessness illegal then how do you "step in" before someone willfully makes a choice to take a hard drug.

There's enough information out there these days that no one can plead innocence that they didn't know taking a hard drug would lead to a slippery slope.

Again, from my limited knowledge of seeing videos online talking to those who are homeless, it very much has the feeling of they are not wanting to play by regular rules and decide to do what they want.

[DyAm00394]

They’ve begun installing the structural framing of the building for the new K-5 school under construction on Ropewalk Road.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

Are people not willfully taking fentanyl, meth, heroin etc? At some point there must be a decision where someone was in a "right state of mind" to take that drug correct? Or a healthy person made the choice. The part that I don't understand is how is making these bad choices don't have the jail/prison repercussions as other criminal activity.

It seems you think there is a much stronger correlation between homelessness and substance abuse than there actually is. Obviously, those that are using drugs are going to cause more issues than those that aren't, and that is going to make that segment of the homeless population more visible.

- addiction or substance use was the most commonly cited reason for housing loss. More than a quarter (25.1%) of survey respondents indicated that addiction or substance use was a reason for their most recent housing loss
- the proportion of male respondents reporting addiction or substance use as a reason for housing loss (27.6%) was higher than female (21.0%) and gender diverse respondents (22.7%)
- the proportion of individuals who reported addiction or substance use increases with time spent homeless, from 19.0% at 0 to 2 months to 28.2% for those who reported over 6 months of homelessness in the past year

Source: https://housing-infrastructure.canada.ca...-rapports/addiction-toxicomanie-eng.html

There are many reasons why people end up being homeless aside from substance abuse.

[Pugsley]

I think the primary issues impacting the Uptown are from those experiencing substance-abuse issues. As such, it makes sense that money be prioritized to ridding it. I don't think any policy changes at a federal level (ie: judicial policy or public health policy) are going to be quick to come - which means an alternative solution is needed.

It will likely take some local investment in community outreach, advocacy, and rehabilitation to see any change. By investment I mean more money for the police to get the drugs off the streets (ie: targeting the dealers and flow, and more on-site policing) and funding for programs aimed at rehabilitation of those already trapped in drug-abuse scenarios (ie: wellness, counselling, and addiction services).

In terms of broader homelessness, that is a completely different social issue which also needs funding. The new "12 Neighbours"- like development that is underway is good for those who are homeless and are on a path for self-sustainability. But those who are homeless and on drugs cannot get to that stage if there is not more funding to get them out of the drug addiction scenario, re-focused towards recovery, and eventually into this type of a community/program where they can regain dignity and a path forward.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

https://thechambersj.com/saint-john-region-chamber-calls-for-urgent-action/

Chamber of Commerce adds their voice to the calls for urgent action on the growing homelessness problem and the issues surrounding it

The Chamber urges the Province of New Brunswick and the City of Saint John to step forward together, take ownership,

and bring forward the leadership required.

Not a whole lot of calls for the outlying communities to take ownership of this issues impacting the region. If I'm not mistaken, CEO of the Saint John Region Chamber of Commerce lives outside the city in Grand Bay.

Would sure be nice to see the outlying communities step up with offers to help and be part of the solution.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

You may recall that I didn’t think it was a great idea, but you seemed to think that organizations would be lining up to contribute. Guess not?

So no suggestions on how or who to approach at the city and other relevant organizations, just more unhelpful, dismissive comments? I guess you're not much of an outdoor hockey guy, fair enough.

As for "not such great ideas" for outdoor recreation developments in Saint John, I'd say the idea to build a Memorial Cup Legacy Outdoor Hockey Facility under the viaduct, and without a roof, so it can't be flooded as an ice rink during the winter, is right up there with our biggest Parks and Recreation planning fails, even though it wasn't a city decision to build the facility there, it was still a planning decision.

To put the salt in the wound, the people who made this decision (the Memorial Cup Committee) mostly lived outside the city, including the Chairman himself from Quispamsis. This facility should have been designed with a roof from the start, if they were so intent on using this location under the viaduct where DTI doesn't want people skating on a roofless outdoor rink during snow clearing.

At least it's not too late to put a roof on this, and who knows maybe there are some refrigeration solutions that could be looked at down the line... At least if we get a roof on this thing, the facility can be used on rainy days, and be used for ice hockey during the coldest days and weeks of the winter. Not only will a roof mitigate the risk of falling ice and snow from the viaduct above, it would also help cool the surface of the rink by shading it from the sun.


A "great idea" to remedy a poor planning decision. Such a roof would make this "ODR" look like a mini Harbour Station

As I mentioned before, perhaps Americold could be one of the local organizations that would be interested in sponsoring a new, refrigerated outdoor hockey rink for the people of Saint John to enjoy... it would certainly be an on brand community investment for them! I'll be sure to contact them with this idea once they've got their facility up and running.