NEW ORLEANS | Project/Development Thread

[tennis1400]

Its mainly assimilating parcels large enough to fit these stores. New Orleans East is another story, it should be full of things by now!

[SlidellWx]

I'm still shocked at the dearth of retail in New Orleans East and Gentilly as well. There are several vacant or blighted properties that are just begging to be redeveloped. I don't know what it will take to get retailers interested in these neighborhoods.

[Blitzen]

Originally Posted by tennis1400

Its mainly assimilating parcels large enough to fit these stores. New Orleans East is another story, it should be full of things by now!

No, the main problem with starting a large business in New Orleans is the city government itself is very retain unfriendly. You must grease the palms of the city planning commission, city council, mayor's office, neighborhood groups, and neighborhood ministers. Once you've done that, your business is subject to 2 dozen special permit fees every year from the city, an inventory tax, a vehicle tax, and at least a dozen more.

Jefferson/St. Tammany is unfortunately more friendly to business, and that's what's holding the retail industry in the city limits back.

[SlidellWx]

I'd be shocked if this is still the case with Landrieu and the vast majority of the new council in place. Just don't see the new administration needing a monetary bribe to get a bix box retailer into the city. If I'm wrong, then no progress will ever come to the city.

[ardecila]

Yeah, I don't think it's a matter of bribes so much as just plain ol' red tape. This city can't afford to erect major bureaucratic barriers to development.

[dgpatel]

At the request of New Orleans City Councilwoman Kristin Gisleson Palmer, developers hoping to build a $70 million high-rise tower on the site of a long-vacant Woolworth's store at Canal and North Rampart streets are expected to withdraw their application from the agenda of this week's New Orleans City Council meeting.

But the developers said they are not dropping their project. Instead, they will first submit it for review by the Central Business District panel of the Historic District Landmarks Commission, as Palmer requested.

As proposed, the residential, office, parking and retail building would be 213 feet high, or three times the 70 feet allowed by the site's zoning, and it has drawn fire from some French Quarter residents and preservationists.

Proponents argue that it would not be out of scale with other tall buildings on the French Quarter side of Canal Street, such as the Ritz-Carlton, Astor Crowne Plaza and Marriott hotels.

But even though the site is outside the Vieux Carre as defined by city law, critics say that to have yet another building towering over the historic district would detract from its character and "tout ensemble," which the city should strive to protect for historical, aesthetic and economic reasons.

The City Planning Commission voted 5-4 in December to disapprove the 20-story tower. However, the final decision is up to the council. The site is in Palmer's district.

Praveen Kailas, one of the developers, said Tuesday that Palmer's main concern is with the building's design, not its height, and that she wanted the proposal withdrawn so the Landmarks Commission can review the design. The proposal then will be resubmitted to the Planning Commission and the council, Kailas said, adding that the talks with Palmer's office have been "very productive."

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[ardecila]

Originally Posted by dgpatel

Praveen Kailas, one of the developers, said Tuesday that Palmer's main concern is with the building's design, not its height, and that she wanted the proposal withdrawn so the Landmarks Commission can review the design.

Whoop whoop! That's exactly what I suggested to Palmer in my email.

Harry Baker Smith is just a terrible architect. I hope the HDLC can beat some sense into him. This isn't f-ing Destin.

The members of the HDLC's Architectural Review board are pretty qualified - combined, they designed most of the stuff on Julia Street.

[Blitzen]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Harry Baker Smith is just a terrible architect. I hope the HDLC can beat some sense into him. This isn't f-ing Destin.

The members of the HDLC's Architectural Review board are pretty qualified - combined, they designed most of the stuff on Julia Street.

The problem with the review board, is that they will want to take a brand new building with brand new architecture, and try to combine elements of older historic buildings and the combination will be a hodgepodge-mismatch that in a few years we will think is deplorable, i.e. every building ever built in the 1970s. The building will be instantly dated, and be regretted after a few decades.

I say leave the building the way it is, as the modern touch will contrast with the historic buildings nearby and create a better appreciation for each.

[FrenchTwins]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Whoop whoop! That's exactly what I suggested to Palmer in my email.

Harry Baker Smith is just a terrible architect. I hope the HDLC can beat some sense into him. This isn't f-ing Destin.

The members of the HDLC's Architectural Review board are pretty qualified - combined, they designed most of the stuff on Julia Street.

I hope that the purpose of this review is to improve the quality of the architecture instead of changing it into some faux french quarter strangeness. I would prefer that the building has a smaller parking pedestal, or in some way move offices to the corners of the lower floors so that there are people instead of cars looking out to the street. I've seen buildings with pedestals like this suck the life out of certain areas of Chicago and St. Louis.

I approve of the review if that is what is being addressed instead of a misguided height restriction that a large number of pre-existing buildings on that street already have violated.

I think that if there is going to be this new rampart street car line built into the neighborhood, there must be the realization that this will cause more dense development in those corridors. The trend of development in New Orleans seems to be build up the CBD and surrounding areas into a vibrant, livable community before rebuilding some of the higher risk outlying areas.

In a related topic about the rampart street car line that goes down Elysian Fields to the riverfront street car: Is this going to be a continuous loop or are you going to have to transfer at the riverfront or canal connections? I feel like this line would be much more reliable for travellers and generally efficient if it continued to the riverfront and then kept going up to canal to complete the loop. Thoughts?

[Uptowner]

Originally Posted by Blitzen

The problem with the review board, is that they will want to take a brand new building with brand new architecture, and try to combine elements of older historic buildings and the combination will be a hodgepodge-mismatch that in a few years we will think is deplorable, i.e. every building ever built in the 1970s. The building will be instantly dated, and be regretted after a few decades.

I mostly agree. I understand the need for to review the architecture and make improvements where needed as long as they don't try to turn it into some "Old New Orleans" style faux bullsh*t. New Orleans does a good enough job as it is balancing old and new. The city needs something fresh as long as it isn't overdone.

[tennis1400]

Originally Posted by Uptowner

I mostly agree. I understand the need for to review the architecture and make improvements where needed as long as they don't try to turn it into some "Old New Orleans" style faux bullsh*t. New Orleans does a good enough job as it is balancing old and new. The city needs something fresh as long as it isn't overdone.

I agree with this statement completely. i have faith that Councilperson Palmer is trying to get the highest quality architecture for that corner. the main thing to take away from this is she was unhappy with the design and not the height. Sounds like a positive step to me. As for everyone here who sent inemails Im sure it helped sway her so congrats!

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by FrenchTwins

In a related topic about the rampart street car line that goes down Elysian Fields to the riverfront street car: Is this going to be a continuous loop or are you going to have to transfer at the riverfront or canal connections? I feel like this line would be much more reliable for travellers and generally efficient if it continued to the riverfront and then kept going up to canal to complete the loop. Thoughts?

From what I understand, there will be one line running from the UPT/Loyola to Press Street via Rampart/St. Claude, and one line running from UPT/Loyola to Elysian Fields/St. Claude via the riverfront.

Originally Posted by Uptowner

I mostly agree. I understand the need for to review the architecture and make improvements where needed as long as they don't try to turn it into some "Old New Orleans" style faux bullsh*t. New Orleans does a good enough job as it is balancing old and new. The city needs something fresh as long as it isn't overdone.

As I said above, the three people on the architectural review commission aren't strict preservationists - they seem very qualified to make a sensible choice. That's why I mentioned Julia Street - great fusion of modernism and historic character - probably the best in the city. The Landmarks Commission is very different than the Vieux Carre Commission.

Also, if you read the HDLC's Design Guidelines, they are very clear on the point that Canal and Rampart is NOT part of the French Quarter, and should only be measured against other buildings on Canal St.

[dgpatel]

Originally Posted by Uptowner

I mostly agree. I understand the need for to review the architecture and make improvements where needed as long as they don't try to turn it into some "Old New Orleans" style faux bullsh*t. New Orleans does a good enough job as it is balancing old and new. The city needs something fresh as long as it isn't overdone.

I like the idea of putting the "Old New Orleans" style buildings on Canal St. Even though Canal St isn't part of the Vieux Carre, alot of the modified older higher buildings still maintain the "old" style (i.e, the Ritz, Astor buildings, as well as the Roosevelt Hotel even though it is half a block off Canal), and I feel that 1031 Canal should be of a similar design. I wouldn't call it "faux" as the architectural style is part of NOLA today just as it was when those buildings were originally built. It just makes the Canal St experience unique from other cities. I wouldn't call the newer red street cars faux because that style is part of the New Orleans style.

On the flip side I am all about modern buildings and skyscrapers, but leave those for the CBD / Poydras St / Loyola Ave corridors (i.e. Trump, if it is ever built). Not for Canal St though. The current 1031 Canal design looks like something out of Destin, and does not fit in NOLA. Even though it is a pretty design, I'd say leave that sort of style for the Lakefront or West End areas.

I disagree with Blitzen about buildings being instantly dated if they are designed with an "older" style because the Ritz, Astor, and Roosevelt are beautiful and fit in perfectly with their surrounding areas. I do feel that alot of the buildings of the 60's and 70's are dated, such as WTC, Plaza Tower (with the exception of Hyatt b/c that building is just beautiful). I'm on the fence about One Shell Square, because even though its a plain/boring box, it doesn't quite feel dated. These buildings do a great job filling the NOLA skyline, and I'm definitely proud of them, but compared to more modern skyscrapers in NOLA as well as other cities, these are kind of boring. The buildings of the 80's are much nicer (Place St. Charles, First Bank, Benson for example).

The architectural styles have definitely evolved with time. But I feel that the styles of the CBD area should continue to evolve while the French Quarter and Canal St areas maintain the older style. Now by older style, I don't mean to let it look like a dump because thats what the preservationists are allowing to happen. Rather the developers should be allowed to clean up and restore the older buildings as the Ritz and Astor did. Even refurbishing the facade and building a high-rise inside existing older buildings such as Woolworth or places in the Warehouse district would be nice.

[sguil1]

Overall sounded like a positive article. I think the project will go through with some minor tweaking, but sounds like Palmer is mostly for it.

[ardecila]

When it comes to Modernism in New Orleans, the smaller buildings are definitely better. I love that concrete building between Lee Circle and the expressway, or the parking garage at Camp/Common. My favorite modern high-rise is probably Freeport McMoRan across from the Superdome, with the big rounded corner. The two towers next to it are pretty cool, too.

[urbanwatcher]

I think that if there is going to be this new rampart street car line built into the neighborhood, there must be the realization that this will cause more dense development in those corridors. The trend of development in New Orleans seems to be build up the CBD and surrounding areas into a vibrant, livable community before rebuilding some of the higher risk outlying areas.

Just out of curiosity what do you and others here think are going to be the up and coming areas in New Orleans.Also what areas(higher risk outlying)do you think are going to more than likely sit.I ask this as a native who has been watching things change alot and at the same time stay the same.I assume that the lower ninth ward is not going to have much progress but the upper ninth along st claude may improve in the coming years.Central city is debatable as to ever coming out of its current crime state.Mid city has been on a regenerative path for the last ten years but what about the Treme and Esplanade ridge.I remember when the Irish channel and Wharehouse dist were run down so i know anything is possible.

[ardecila]

Er... the St. Claude corridor/Bywater/St. Roch, and the Lower Garden District along the river from Wal-Mart to the Convention Center. The first will be lots of little, individual renovations and the second will be very corporate and commercialized (not a bad thing IMO).

If they manage to tear down I-10 and do a good job designing the surface boulevard, then you can add Treme and Iberville to the list too.

[FrenchTwins]

Originally Posted by urbanwatcher

Just out of curiosity what do you and others here think are going to be the up and coming areas in New Orleans.Also what areas(higher risk outlying)do you think are going to more than likely sit.I ask this as a native who has been watching things change alot and at the same time stay the same.I assume that the lower ninth ward is not going to have much progress but the upper ninth along st claude may improve in the coming years.Central city is debatable as to ever coming out of its current crime state.Mid city has been on a regenerative path for the last ten years but what about the Treme and Esplanade ridge.I remember when the Irish channel and Wharehouse dist were run down so i know anything is possible.

-I think from the way development has been happening so far, Mid-City from about Carrollton Avenue towards downtown is on its way up. I used to go to high school in the area and it seems that not only have a high percentage of people moved back and renovated housing, but there have also been some major housing, retail, and commercial developments in the area (anything Domain Cos., the Nike Store Shopping Center, of course the hospitals).

-I think lakeview has been showing a lot of good progress lately. Hopefully there can be a push toward developing more of the lakefront around there. The other side of city park is coming back a little slower, imo. That area has had some good development (excellent Columbia Parc development that should be the model for Iberville), but the farther east you go the more chicken / egg scenario you get for residents and investors.

-Iberville / Treme is painfully close to really becoming the next big thing in the city in my opinion. If all of the pieces fall into place (Iberville redevelopment, I-10 teardown, Rampart street car, BioInnovation center, theatre district, 1031 Canal, hospitals, TV show catches on) I think it will start snowballing.

-Upper/Lower Ninth is difficult to call. The area was always anchored by the community aspect of the neighborhood because there wasn't and isn't much major retail in that area. Once you lose that its hard to attract former residents back when there are other areas of the city that are in better shape and have more reinvestment. Musician's Village and Make it Right are doing really good things there, but its very much an uphill battle. As much as it is a very provocative word in New Orleans especially, I think there must be some form of gentrification in that area for it to be sustainable.

On the wish list : I think a street car line going to the lakefront on Elysian fields would be a good sign for investors to come in and residents to come back to that area. There could even be a spur running parallel to the railroad near the lowes going over to city park and connecting with the canal/carrollton line terminus. Who knows where this new RTA management company got their money, but they seem to serious about bringing street cars back to the city.

[IceCream]

Originally Posted by FrenchTwins

-I think from the way development has been happening so far, Mid-City from about Carrollton Avenue towards downtown is on its way up. I used to go to high school in the area and it seems that not only have a high percentage of people moved back and renovated housing, but there have also been some major housing, retail, and commercial developments in the area (anything Domain Cos., the Nike Store Shopping Center, of course the hospitals).

-I think lakeview has been showing a lot of good progress lately. Hopefully there can be a push toward developing more of the lakefront around there. The other side of city park is coming back a little slower, imo. That area has had some good development (excellent Columbia Parc development that should be the model for Iberville), but the farther east you go the more chicken / egg scenario you get for residents and investors.

-Iberville / Treme is painfully close to really becoming the next big thing in the city in my opinion. If all of the pieces fall into place (Iberville redevelopment, I-10 teardown, Rampart street car, BioInnovation center, theatre district, 1031 Canal, hospitals, TV show catches on) I think it will start snowballing.

-Upper/Lower Ninth is difficult to call. The area was always anchored by the community aspect of the neighborhood because there wasn't and isn't much major retail in that area. Once you lose that its hard to attract former residents back when there are other areas of the city that are in better shape and have more reinvestment. Musician's Village and Make it Right are doing really good things there, but its very much an uphill battle. As much as it is a very provocative word in New Orleans especially, I think there must be some form of gentrification in that area for it to be sustainable.

On the wish list : I think a street car line going to the lakefront on Elysian fields would be a good sign for investors to come in and residents to come back to that area. There could even be a spur running parallel to the railroad near the lowes going over to city park and connecting with the canal/carrollton line terminus. Who knows where this new RTA management company got their money, but they seem to serious about bringing street cars back to the city.

I've met the head of the RTA/Veolia. It is an incredibly interesting story in general, but to answer your question about the money it is pretty basic. Instead of just completely wasting money on ludicrous expenses while simultaneously pissing off their customer base by treating things such as being on time (imagine that) as low on the totem pole....they've increased the ridership, revenues, and improved the books of the RTA such that they are now deemed creditable and can float bonds at a decent interest rate.

It really isn't a miracle...it's just having a head on their shoulders, but that's a lot to ask in NOLA.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by IceCream

It really isn't a miracle...it's just having a head on their shoulders, but that's a lot to ask in NOLA.

Bingo. It's amazing what can happen when you take power out of the hands of the selfish, greedy, connected people. In this case, they brought in the French. (Not that Veolia's NOLA staff is French, but the company is...)

Now can they just increase frequency on the bus routes? Magazine Street should be running every 15 minutes. Same for Broad, Napoleon, Tulane, St. Claude, and Elysian Fields. They don't need to sink money into streetcars to improve service.

Also, we should get some nice shelters. These are at no cost, paid for by advertising revenue. However, NORTA works with a really bush-league company out in Metairie instead of the bigger companies like JC Decaux or Cemusa, which deliver beautiful, customized designs at no added cost. The local operation gives us pretty ugly shelters out of a catalog.