The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[biguc]

Food for thought for everyone with a perma-boner for HSR and only HSR in the corridor. Build your system, get people using it, make incremental improvements--one day you reach the tipping point and service becomes excellent. This is how it happens everywhere but China.

Trains running through Union will mean a huge improvement in service. It's almost crazy to think that Mississauga to Scarborough could be a 30 minute trip. And there will be spanking-new light rail lines at either end.

[Innsertnamehere]

The Province's GO expansion and Subway Expansion programs combined are apparently $61 billion in infrastructure over the next 10 years or so.

It's an insane investment, and badly needed.

The travel times that are being discussed for the GO changes include getting from Oakville GO to Union in 25 minutes, and same with Pickering GO. You literally can't drive that fast to those destinations in no traffic.

The speeds, combined with the frequencies, are completely transformational and will result in an absolutely excellent rapid transit network throughout the GTA.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The speeds, combined with the frequencies, are completely transformational and will result in an absolutely excellent rapid transit network throughout the GTA.

The ridership prediction reflects that quality.

GO 2055 ridership is expected to be relatively close to Long Island Railroad and Metro North combined (NY ridership projections are relatively flat).

[caltrane74]

Been dreaming about Go-Regional-Rail for a long time. There are so many suburban pockets that will also see some surreal densification due to this project, no one has mentioned.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by rbt

The ridership prediction reflects that quality.

GO 2055 ridership is expected to be relatively close to Long Island Railroad and Metro North combined (NY ridership projections are relatively flat).

While the Ontario line and the shoulder stations will ease the strain a little, Union will inevitably become one of - if not the - busiest stations in the western world.

[GoTrans]

How are Via trains going to navigate the Exhibition station with the RER proposal? It looks like all the tracks will be taken up by GO. Will Via run through the station or run around the station? the renderings make this unclear.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

While the Ontario line and the shoulder stations will ease the strain a little, Union will inevitably become one of - if not the - busiest stations in the western world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations_in_North_America

It's already#3.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations_in_North_America

It's already#3.

Well, NA isn't a huge accomplishment for a city that size. the western world on the other hand is a different story.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Well, NA isn't a huge accomplishment for a city that size. the western world on the other hand is a different story.

https://japantoday.com/category/features...-in-the-world-all-but-6-located-in-japan

The 51 busiest train stations in the world– All but 6 located in Japan

None are in North America.

1 Shinjuku (Tokyo, Japan)

2 Shibuya (Tokyo, Japan)

3 Ikebukuro (Tokyo, Japan)

4 Umeda (Osaka, Japan)

5 Yokohama (Kanagawa, Japan)

6 Kita-Senju (Tokyo, Japan)

7 Nagoya (Aichi, Japan)

8 Tokyo (Tokyo, Japan)

9 Shinagawa (Tokyo, Japan)

10 Takadanobaba (Tokyo, Japan)

11 Namba (Osaka, Japan)

12 Shinbashi (Tokyo, Japan)

13 Tennoji (Osaka, Japan)

14 Akihabara (Tokyo, Japan)

15 Kyoto (Kyoto, Japan)

16 Sannomiya (Kobe, Japan)

17 Omiya (Saitama, Japan)

18 Yurakucho-Hibiya (Tokyo, Japan)

19 Nishi-Funabashi (Chiba, Japan)

20 Meguro (Tokyo, Japan)

21 Daimon-Hamamatsucho (Tokyo, Japan)

22 Ueno (Tokyo, Japan)

23 Oshiage (Tokyo, Japan)

24 Paris Nord (Paris, France)

25 Taipei Railway Station (Taipei,Taiwan)

26 Machida (Tokyo, Japan)

27 Gare de Chatelet (Paris, France)

28 Kawasaki (Kanagawa, Japan)

29 Roma Termini Railway Station (Rome, Italy)

30 Tamachi-Mita (Tokyo, Japan)

31 Kyobashi (Osaka, Japan)

32 Funabashi (Chiba, Japan)

33 Ayase (Tokyo, Japan)

34 Hamburg Central Station (Hamburg, Germany)

35 Yoyogi-Uehara (Tokyo, Japan)

36 Kamata (Kamata, Japan)

37 Gotanda (Tokyo, Japan)

38 Kichijoji (Tokyo, Japan)

39 Kanayama (Aichi, Japan)

40 Musashikosugi (Kanagawa, Japan)

41 Fujisawa (Kanagawa, Japan)

42 Oimachi (Tokyo, Japan)

43 Nakano (Tokyo, Japan)

44 Tachikawa (Tokyo, Japan)

45 Iidabashi (Tokyo, Japan)

46 Kashiwa (Chiba, Japan)

47 Hakata (Fukuoka, Japan)

48 Tsuruhashi (Osaka, Japan)

49 Nishi-Nippori (Tokyo, Japan)

50 Nakameguro (Tokyo, Japan)

51 Zurich Main Station (Zurich, Switzerland)

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

How are Via trains going to navigate the Exhibition station with the RER proposal? It looks like all the tracks will be taken up by GO. Will Via run through the station or run around the station? the renderings make this unclear.

It’s up to VIA to figure those things out and get ahead of them. Metrolinx’s plans have been public for years.

Same thing with them missing the boat on the Mont Royal tunnel in Montreal.

Via is also a very minor player here. The 6 trains per direction per day that they send through the Lakeshore West corridor is the equivalent to what GO will send every 30 minutes, and GO’s weekly ridership under regional rail will exceed the annual ridership of VIA across the entire national system.

[Nouvellecosse]

It's a 4 track section not including the Ontario line so that should be enough to handle the throughout even if there's the odd delay.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

It’s up to VIA to figure those things out and get ahead of them. Metrolinx’s plans have been public for years.

Same thing with them missing the boat on the Mont Royal tunnel in Montreal.

Via is also a very minor player here. The 6 trains per direction per day that they send through the Lakeshore West corridor is the equivalent to what GO will send every 30 minutes, and GO’s weekly ridership under regional rail will exceed the annual ridership of VIA across the entire national system.

There is a pretty good chance Via and Metrolinx have been in talks to figure that all out. Remember, these RER lines will also have to deal with the always late Canadian.

[Nouvellecosse]

Doesn't the Canadian use the RH route? I don't think it's supposed to be part of RER.

[ssiguy]

It wouldn't surprise me if GO takes over the entire Southern Ont rail system including London/Windsor/Sarnia on both the Northern {KW} and Southern {Hamilton} routes and frankly, the people of SWO would be better served for it.

VIA's HFR ends at Toronto despite the Tor/Lon route being the most financially successful route in the entire system on a passenger per/km basis. VIA has decided to let SWO service rot for purely political reasons and so GO should move in.

[casper]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It wouldn't surprise me if GO takes over the entire Southern Ont rail system including London/Windsor/Sarnia on both the Northern {KW} and Southern {Hamilton} routes and frankly, the people of SWO would be better served for it.

VIA's HFR ends at Toronto despite the Tor/Lon route being the most financially successful route in the entire system on a passenger per/km basis. VIA has decided to let SWP service rot for purely political reasons and so GO should move in.

What level of interlining is there between Via And Go?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Doesn't the Canadian use the RH route? I don't think it's supposed to be part of RER.

Good point. My mistake.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It wouldn't surprise me if GO takes over the entire Southern Ont rail system including London/Windsor/Sarnia on both the Northern {KW} and Southern {Hamilton} routes and frankly, the people of SWO would be better served for it.

VIA's HFR ends at Toronto despite the Tor/Lon route being the most financially successful route in the entire system on a passenger per/km basis. VIA has decided to let SWP service rot for purely political reasons and so GO should move in.

Via did that with the southern Canadian route in the 90s. I doubt Via will give it up, but if they do, it could be the beginning of provincial passenger rail services instead of a federal one.

Originally Posted by casper

What level of interlining is there between Via And Go?

Right now, or in some fantasy that is being played out?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations_in_North_America

It's already#3.

well, I guess global warming is our only chance at being number 1

[ssiguy]

SWO would be better served by enhanced GO service. All the transit systems could be transfer-free between GO trains and local services ala 905 making it cheaper and more convenient. Also VIA's service to SWO has deteriorated to the point of being useless due to the infrequency of the service and laughable on-time performance. At least GO owns the Aldershot to Union section of the map so GO will be in charge and can offer somewhat more reliable service.

Unless Ottawa makes a FIRM commitment to bring HFR to Windsor, then London & Windsor Mayors should just pressure Ottawa and QP to cancel VIA services and have them replaced by GO.

[Denscity]

The 2 - 500 foot long tunnel boring machines are now being assembled on Vancouver's Broadway subway project.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

well, I guess global warming is our only chance at being number 1

I think Union's ridership could easily get to #1 in NA 25 years assuming that GO RER is up and running in a decade. It might be tough to have a drastic increase in peak passenger throughput due to the difficulty with passenger circulation, but by making Union more of an all-day hub there could be a huge overall increase (like 2-3x) just through off-peak volumes going from say 1/5 of peak to just 1/3.

The pre-pandemic GO train ridership was around 215k for all lines combined with most trips starting or ending at Union. That's less than 1/2 of the BD line. All it would take to match the BD line's daily average would be if each of the 5 electrified GO lines had 1/5 the BD line daily average, or about 100k. That's less than the Canada line with it's tiny trains. And maybe add another 10-20k each to account for ridership diverted to the OL. And of course the non-electrified GO lines would still exist and VIA HFR would add a little as well.

Now whether or not it'll ever surpass Gare Du Nord to be #1 in the western world is another question.