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  #1621  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2025, 12:12 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by mcj View Post
The ridership memo (linked pdf) shows that the Production Way branch could start running through to Arbutus during peak times in 2035. Perhaps this operating pattern is moved forward to provide that extra capacity on the Broadway to Brentwood section of the Millennium Line without sending too many longer trains to Coquitlam once the Broadway Subway is completed.
Thanks for the link!
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  #1622  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2025, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mcj View Post
The ridership memo (linked pdf) shows that the Production Way branch could start running through to Arbutus during peak times in 2035. Perhaps this operating pattern is moved forward to provide that extra capacity on the Broadway to Brentwood section of the Millennium Line without sending too many longer trains to Coquitlam once the Broadway Subway is completed.
The issue with mixing shorter and longer train is, people just take whatever that comes first. The shorter train will be super-packed, while the longer train still have room.

People going to Coquitlam cannot get on the short trains due to it being filled up with people only going as far as Brentwood or Lougheed.. There are room on the longer trains but they cannot take it because it doesn't reach their destination.

TransLink know this issue back in the days when they were mixing with 2- or 4-cars MkII along with 4- and 6-cars MkI trains. After that, they tried to make all train similar capacity (except for the short-turn shuttle between CM-BW and WF)
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  #1623  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2025, 12:54 AM
dpogue dpogue is online now
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Originally Posted by Express691 View Post
If you go and transfer 66 mark 1 to the Millennium Line
Just a note that there's an internal policy to not run Mark I trains in revenue service on the full Millennium Line (particular the Evergreen Line section). Something to do with braking profiles and safety stopping limits. So it's unlikely they will transfer any Mark I trains to the M-Line before they are retired.
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  #1624  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2025, 2:06 AM
Mac Write Mac Write is offline
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Since the M-Line is all Mark II's, have they changed the speed-limit from 80kph to 100kph as the Mark I's are limited to 80kph?

If not, once all the Mark I's are retired at that time will they move to 100kph to improve service speed (levels)?
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  #1625  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2025, 3:05 AM
dpogue dpogue is online now
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Originally Posted by Mac Write View Post
Since the M-Line is all Mark II's, have they changed the speed-limit from 80kph to 100kph as the Mark I's are limited to 80kph?

If not, once all the Mark I's are retired at that time will they move to 100kph to improve service speed (levels)?
My understanding is that 80kph is the intended revenue service speed for all the trains on the system.
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  #1626  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 12:24 AM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
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Who do I contact to suggest getting bus priority for the 5 Downtown's right turn from Burrard to Robson?
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  #1627  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 1:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Who do I contact to suggest getting bus priority for the 5 Downtown's right turn from Burrard to Robson?
Fill out their feedback form and mark that you want a response back. Then save the e-mail address for future contact.
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  #1628  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 1:37 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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Originally Posted by cganuelas1995 View Post
Who do I contact to suggest getting bus priority for the 5 Downtown's right turn from Burrard to Robson?
Probably submit feedback to the Burrard Peninsula review

https://www.translink.ca/plans-and-proje...rea-transport-planning/burrard-peninsula
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  #1629  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 4:00 PM
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bloomtronzero bloomtronzero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcj View Post
The ridership memo (linked pdf) shows that the Production Way branch could start running through to Arbutus during peak times in 2035. Perhaps this operating pattern is moved forward to provide that extra capacity on the Broadway to Brentwood section of the Millennium Line without sending too many longer trains to Coquitlam once the Broadway Subway is completed.
I for one welcome the return of the Loop Line.

It does look ridiculous sharing branding with the Expo Line like that, though. I think we might need to start giving the "branches" their own names at some point.

Like say, blue/Expo Line from Waterfront to Langley, yellow/millennium line from waterfront and looping to arbutus, green/evergreen from arbutus to lafarge, and just for fun and because it still drives me up the wall that the Canada line is the wrong colour, red/canada line for the airport, light-2010-blue/olympic line for richmond.

Or something like that. having that dark blue expo line branch along nearly the whole damned map, and having an "expo" train potentially taking a confused passenger or visitor unfamiliar with our system so far the wrong way could they end up on the complete opposite end of Metro Vancouver. Imagine some poor Saskatchewanian visitor taking the "expo line" like they were told to, intending to visit a friend in Kits, only to end up in Langley.
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  #1630  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 7:56 PM
p78hub p78hub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcj View Post
The ridership memo (linked pdf) shows that the Production Way branch could start running through to Arbutus during peak times in 2035. Perhaps this operating pattern is moved forward to provide that extra capacity on the Broadway to Brentwood section of the Millennium Line without sending too many longer trains to Coquitlam once the Broadway Subway is completed.
I feel like it makes more sense then for the Production Way-Columbia section to be a Millennium Line branch rather than an Expo Line branch, if the concern is not sending too many long trains to Coquitlam. Expo Line trains are already going to be racking up the KMs going from Waterfront to Langley; looping all the way around to Arbutus is an even longer distance.
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  #1631  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2025, 8:20 PM
madog222 madog222 is offline
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Originally Posted by p78hub View Post
I feel like it makes more sense then for the Production Way-Columbia section to be a Millennium Line branch rather than an Expo Line branch, if the concern is not sending too many long trains to Coquitlam. Expo Line trains are already going to be racking up the KMs going from Waterfront to Langley; looping all the way around to Arbutus is an even longer distance.
On top of Columbia being a terrible station for transfers a big issue is the train frequency limitations caused by having a train turn around within the service tracks, Expo is already too busy to allow this.

Also, distance covered by individual trains for one 'complete trip' doesn't really matter, any routing configuration delivering the same capacity will result in the same train running distance and hours.
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  #1632  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2025, 6:08 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Yeah, the ultimate solution is to build a third track at Columbia station as a M-line terminus.
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  #1633  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2025, 6:23 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Note that the report describes 3 "operating patterns" (including a short-turn at 140th station)
and the report appears to then refer to the 3 patterns as the 3 "branches".
Note that Expo Line operation to Arbutus is only during Peak Hours. Otherwise it terminates at Production Way.
Note that the "Project" is the Surrey-Langley Extension, so pphpd figures refer to the capacity of the extension, not the overall SkyTrain system.

Horrible pagination in that report. The descriptions for the tables and diagrams are stranded on different pages.


https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf


https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf
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  #1634  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2025, 7:45 AM
Express691 Express691 is offline
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Originally Posted by dpogue View Post
Just a note that there's an internal policy to not run Mark I trains in revenue service on the full Millennium Line (particular the Evergreen Line section). Something to do with braking profiles and safety stopping limits. So it's unlikely they will transfer any Mark I trains to the M-Line before they are retired.
I guess the point still stands - the high chances that Mk1s last through opening day on the Broadway Subway

It also gives value to my 2021 heatwave footage, I had the courage to take one from Lafarge to Broadway
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  #1635  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2025, 7:00 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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This guy is living in a fantasy world if he thinks there's massive housing developments in the pipeline on the North Shore.

Quote:
In the context of rapid population growth and insufficient housing development, the North Shore and Metro Vancouver have seen a significant increase in housing costs over the past 15 years.

With the elections behind us, and transit-oriented development legislation (mandating higher densities) subsequently secured through Bill 47, multiple developers and landowners are lining up to move forward with massive community-altering development proposals across the North Shore. The combined scale of these proposals is unprecedented for the North Shore, rivaling the number of housing units built during previous growth spurts following the opening of the two existing bridges.

Each jurisdiction will be impacted by the various development schemes, which will cumulatively add tens of thousands of new housing units, along with retail, office and leisure space, over the next decade or two. West Vancouver and the Squamish Nation will be impacted by proposals centred on Park Royal and the First Nations lands adjacent to the Capilano River and Lions Gate Bridge.

The District of North Vancouver will be seeing major development in the Capilano/Marine and Lower Lynn areas, and will be impacted by First Nations developments at the north end of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge.


The City of North Vancouver will also be managing the creation of a major new hub centred on the area between Capilano Mall and Harbourside. Large towers, once limited to Lonsdale and Ambleside, are now being developed, or are proposed, in multiple locations across the North Shore.

While there may be a range of viewpoints on the quantity and form of density that is suitable or desirable on the North Shore, it is essential that the conversation turn to the adoption of sound planning principles to evaluate (objectively), direct (geographically), limit (based on constraints), shape and mitigate (form, use and connections), and absorb (with the intent of generating benefits, including better transit, new shops and services and improved community amenities and parks). As planners, we are obliged to look out for the broader public interest, while acknowledging the constraints of the neighbourhood, infrastructure networks and all stakeholders. Positive outcomes are only possible when the scale and design of development respects the constraints of infrastructure, amenities and the environment.

As a planner and academic, I have long seen the potential for major development to occur across the North Shore. Over the past seven years, I made numerous attempts to push our leaders towards investment in a cost-effective hybrid form of surface and elevated light rail transit (LRT) between the North Shore and the rapid transit network in Vancouver and Burnaby. The urgency of my pleas was in relation to severe traffic congestion generated by current demand, but I also outlined a scenario that would see 20 per cent of future regional growth occurring in the vicinity of this corridor (including First Nations). The recent announcement of several major development schemes on the North Shore, along with the ongoing build out of Brentwood and Metrotown, and the potential development associated with Bill 47, will undoubtedly mean that this process is unfolding at an accelerating rate.

Without rail transit in place, development will generate much higher vehicle trips on an already-congested network, and additional parking will be required. Furthermore, the design of dense, new developments must be oriented to the alignment of rapid transit. In the case of the 3,400-unit redevelopment at Capilano Mall, current designs assume rapid transit will follow congested Marine Drive, a route that is likely not viable for rail transit. Route and technology selection must be finalized before irreversible design mistakes are made, efficiencies are lost, and costs increase.

While this may be a cause for alarm, there is much that we can do right now to evaluate, direct, shape and mitigate. Most importantly, I implore our leaders (all levels of government) to see the magnitude of what is going on and to prioritize the North Shore for the next regional rail rapid transit project. With the pending completion of the Surrey-Langley and Broadway (to Arbutus) SkyTrain projects by the end of this decade, we must ensure that the North Shore line is ready for construction in 2030. This gives us five years to deal with planning the exact route and station locations, engineering constraints and the phasing of a new bridge next to Ironworkers.

Priority has been given to the extension of the Broadway subway to UBC at a likely cost of nearly $10 billion (based on recent subway costs in Toronto and Montreal), despite less than two per cent of future regional growth taking place there. Meanwhile, the North Shore has been offered a modest upgrade of bus services that is not even comparable to legitimate bus rapid transit systems in Ottawa or Winnipeg. At a fraction of the cost per kilometre versus subways, advanced LRT would run in a dedicated lane at surface (with signal priority), to minimize costs, but will include elevated sections where necessary (Park Royal to Capilano, east of Lonsdale to the PNE, south of Brentwood to BCIT), thus offering a competitive travel time versus the car at a fraction of the cost of SkyTrain. LRT also facilitates a more European style of density based on low and midrise buildings, with fewer towers, and high-quality pedestrian environments leading away from stations. Think Olympic Village rather than Metrotown, where towers proliferated around a mall and the elevated guideway of SkyTrain.

We are on the cusp of a massive wave of high-density development across the lowlands of the North Shore. There are potential benefits, but we are not ready! The development of rail rapid transit must be underway before our Councils unleash the effects on our inadequate infrastructure.
https://www.nsnews.com/opinion/opinion-n...ion-of-high-density-development-11020776
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  #1636  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2025, 11:02 PM
seamusmcduff seamusmcduff is offline
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"
Priority has been given to the extension of the Broadway subway to UBC at a likely cost of nearly $10 billion (based on recent subway costs in Toronto and Montreal), despite less than two per cent of future regional growth taking place there."

What a biased statement. Are we just ignoring that Broadway is the second biggest job center in the region, and the existing population is substantially denser and higher in population than most of the North Shore?

Not that I disagree with the North Shore getting rapid transit, but I don't think we need bad faith arguments to justify it
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  #1637  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2025, 11:16 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
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And this gem

Quote:
LRT also facilitates a more European style of density based on low and midrise buildings, with fewer towers, and high-quality pedestrian environments leading away from stations. Think Olympic Village rather than Metrotown, where towers proliferated around a mall and the elevated guideway of SkyTrain.
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  #1638  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2025, 11:27 PM
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Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
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Nieweler, we ignored your little streetcar plan back then because we thought it was stupid. Six years later, we still do. Please stop embarrassing yourself for your own sake.
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  #1639  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2025, 5:55 AM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Originally Posted by dpogue View Post
My understanding is that 80kph is the intended revenue service speed for all the trains on the system.
The 100kph speed is probably a "catch up" speed.

They could run the trains faster through the tunnel, but most of the system would cause the comfort level to be drastically reduced when it comes to stopping distance.

Personally I hope at some point they install a switch at broadway to interline trains starting from waterfront or UBC to be able to switch directions based on peak travel. Transferring isn't terrible, but being able to stay on the same train end to end would remove around 7 minutes of travel time for people who need to do WF-UBC or UBC-Surrey, or even just WF-SFU. If you catch the wrong train, you can still transfer at broadway.

That said, I'm aware of how the weakest part of the system is the switch at Columbia, and the switches at Production Way/Lougheed. Perhaps at some point they can solve those by building a third platform+track for the train to change directions at those stations. The existing system works, but the inability to ride end-to-end if you are doing Surrey to anywhere on the millennium line involves three steps, not to mention the extra wear put on the trains at Production having to drive nearly the entire way to Lake City before being able to turn around. If the Millennium Line gets busier with the UBC segment, that's going to cause far more delays from waiting for the train to turn around.
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  #1640  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2025, 5:28 PM
GenWhy? GenWhy? is offline
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Has a business case been developed yet for the purple and gold routes? I can't recall reading a report on travel patterns, present and future.
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