Edmonton Construction 5 - Page 82

HomeInMyShoes · #**1621** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin_foster

Man things are getting exciting now.....

So, everyone ready for xmas?

No, but I travel home for the holidays so I tend to buy most gifts when I get home to solve transport problems. I just got to brainstorm a couple more ideas so it's one easy four-hour time span to finish it up either tomorrow afternoon or Friday morning.

I still can't believe anyone would ever pay (in any market) $300,000 to live in a timber matchbox. If people want to do that, than people are idiots, but there do seem to be idiots everywhere. They are building "starting at $200,000" timber condos in Regina (where I'm headed tomorrow to visit the homestead) of all places. In Regina? Get serious. I can't wait to see the new bus terminal site, and the torn down Army & Navy (I'm going to miss that place.) In the end, as stated before, developers will aim for the cheapest thing they can build that will still sell.

Coldrsx · #**1622** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:34 PM**

housing prices are finally getting kinda stupid in normal cities...

Jasper and one o nin · #**1623** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:39 PM**

Vivacity was a mess...it wasnt construction pricing to begin with.... (then what was it?)

Omega 2 - wrong (I know for a fact why this one will never be built)

Founders is going ahead...corner 1 in a few years (you are an optimist and hope you are right.. just my prediction - time will tell)

Jasper 109.....i dont think you know what you are talking about... (ok, but you forgot to say "Willis")

Hardhatdan · #**1624** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:43 PM**

I trust Cold about Omega 2...he seems to have an inside track on it.

Vivacity is/was/will always be a mess. Its been through 3 different developers. Its pricing never seemed to match the actual cost to build.

Founder's has been rolling through DC2 for what seems like a year...I can't see them continuing to pursue it without going ahead. That would be a massive waster of time.

Coldrsx · #**1625** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

Vivacity was a mess...it wasnt construction pricing to begin with.... (then what was it?)

Omega 2 - wrong (I know for a fact why this one will never be built)

Founders is going ahead...corner 1 in a few years (you are an optimist and hope you are right.. just my prediction)

Jasper 109.....i dont think you know what you are talking about... (ok, but you forgot to say "Willis")

vivacity went through 2-3 diff developers before TNP stepped in....it was a mess in all regards.

Omega 2 - why isnt it going ahead then?

founders - breaks ground in spring/summer 07...their DC is being supported.

CMD UW · #**1626** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:49 PM**

Jasper-and-109: My comments are coming soon, but your claims are slightly off my friend.

Kevin_foster · #**1627** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:59 PM**

Err.. someone post a rendering of Founders Ridge please

Coldrsx · #**1628** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 7:59 PM**

www.bcmdevelopments.com

voila

Auditor · #**1629** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:11 PM**

"I agree, but I thought we were saying why there are not more Icons, Illuminadas and Century Parks, and why there are so many stick built.

my answer is, people are paying top dollar for crap - so developers are building crap.
Also, when icon and illuminada was proposed, the cost to build was much cheaper. The more construction costs inflate, the less higher end buildings IMO. Viva City one was nearly scrapped because of rising costs (and still could be) Omega 2 has been scapped for that very reason. I would guess that corner one, and founders ridge will not happen either. At least not until construction inflation comes down to realistic levels.
I predict construction inflation will level off."

That is what we were saying, why are there not more high end buildings and your response was because they lose money because it take 2/3 years to build. Icon and Illuminada II are perfect examples they went on sale right at the start of the year before the HUGE increase in prices yet they are still going to get completed and likely construction costs also shot up during that time.

I think your logic is way off.....the only way construction inflation is going to come down is if demand decreases and that will be when less projects are being started. Less construction would mean a slow down in the market which would mean people have less money to invest/purchase houses with.

According to your logic we will see a lot of development when things start to cool down because developers will be all over the cheap labour..... I beg to differ.

Jasper and one o nin · #**1630** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:11 PM**

vivacity went through 2-3 diff developers before TNP stepped in....it was a mess in all regards.

Omega 2 - why isnt it going ahead then? (the architect (BZ) said it wasnt because of rising costs)

founders - breaks ground in spring/summer 07...their DC is being supported. (good, this is a nice looking building - I really hope they move on it fast)

Based on the tone of this forum of the last few months, there seems to be a concensus of frustration regarding why this city does not appear to be showing more high rise construction in light of this recent economic boom. Im only providing you with my $0.02 why I think that is the case. We are seeing record number housing starts, both single fam and multi. But relatively little high rise apt and no commercial. I deal with all kinds of architects and developers every day. and what I am hearing is the demand for single family and stick built apts is huge. Im also hearing the HUGE challenges associated with developing in this city at this time. This includes big time construction inflation and the inability to find skilled workers.

Jasper and one o nin · #**1631** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditor

"I think your logic is way off.....the only way construction inflation is going to come down is if demand decreases and that will be when less projects are being started. Less construction would mean a slow down in the market which would mean people have less money to invest/purchase houses with.

According to your logic we will see a lot of development when things start to cool down because developers will be all over the cheap labour..... I beg to differ.

I agree with you in part. but when a developer is calculating the proforma for a concrete vs. stick built - and what his market analysis says what he could charge for both, right now stick built is usually coming out on top. why? because developers cannot charge the prices needed to build a high rise - in most cases. (every site is different and every location is different). Calgary is seeing more higher end concrete condos because they are charging significantly higher for the units. the construction costs are comparible.

CDE · #**1632** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:27 PM**

Why don't we see more towers?

The easiest answer is that people coming to Edmonton don't want to live in the city or towers or anything that has to do with urbanism.

We are attracting working class immigrants from Saskatchewan and other small towns across Canada. These people are focused on the single family home, and until the cost of home ownership everywhere within the Edmonton area climbs to a really prohibitive level; we won’t see massive amounts of urban development.

It’s the slightly bigger cities syndrome, where creative people move to a city that is slightly bigger than the one they come from.

Think about how many of the highly educated, urbanite, creative, artistic, tech type workers you know who now live in T.O., Van city or (shudder) Calgary.

Kevin_foster · #**1633** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDE

Think about how many of the highly educated, urbanite, creative, artistic, tech type workers you know who now live in T.O., Van city or (shudder) Calgary.

Ah yes, but I think once the ICON towers are up - we'll see a shift in peoples perception (sorta, "Wow, I wanna live there" attitude..). I'd put good money on this fact.

Think of all the UofA and GMCC students that will look downtown and think to themselves... hmm...

The ball is rolling.

CDE · #**1634** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:30 PM**

Hope so.

Coldrsx · #**1635** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:31 PM**

Icon will do wonders for downtown living.....and the downtown in general. It is a relatively high income demo who wants to eat out, have after work drinks, shop at cool stores, and enjoy walking the downtown and area.

Kevin_foster · #**1636** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:32 PM**

^ It's human nature - go to Vancouver, and tell me you wouldn't give your first born to live in the Shangri La.

I'm sure people will be giving up babies soon enough.

How Many times has a person visiting you downtown, that isnt from Downtown, says "wow, sweet place - I should really get downtown..."?

Multiply that effect by 4,000

Coldrsx · #**1637** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:33 PM**

WRT stick versus concrete..... guys who do stick generally dont do highrise....not all, but most.

Highrise condos can give you equal or higher return than stick if done right, dont kid yourself.

murman · #**1638** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

vivacity went through 2-3 diff developers before TNP stepped in....

The concept of TNP being a saviour makes my tummy hurt.

Coldrsx · #**1639** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:36 PM**

TNP, love em or hate em, are very good construction managers it seems.....they build on time and on budget and get things going quickly.

murman · #**1640** Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper and one o nin

I deal with all kinds of architects and developers every day. and what I am hearing is the demand for single family and stick built apts is huge.