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  #16181  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2023, 11:46 PM
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BTW: The government has updated MSA/CSA numbers.

Nothing changes from either front in terms of cities included - but I guess the official MSA for Salt Lake's metro is: Salt Lake City-Murray, UT Metropolitan Statistical Area.

I am confused as to why Murray is now in the name but there you have it. It still includes Tooele County but Murray is now the second principal city. Though, I guess it might make sense with IHC being located there. That alone probably employs more than many county cities have in overall employment (with Intermountain Medical Center).
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  #16182  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 1:29 AM
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It is interesting that they choose Murray when West Valley and Sandy are larger cities and Tooele is the county seat of the other county.

Thank you Paniolo Man and Bob Rulz for the excellent photo updates.
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Last edited by RC14; Jul 26, 2023 at 2:02 AM.
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  #16183  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 1:32 AM
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Thanks for the pics Bob Ruiz!
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  #16184  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 2:48 AM
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Awesome update! You rule Bob Rulz!
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  #16185  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 4:10 AM
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Thanks Schmoe. If that crane swayed in the wind even a little bit my knees would buckle for sure, great post
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  #16186  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 4:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC14 View Post
It is interesting that they choose Murray when West Valley and Sandy are larger cities and Tooele is the county seat of the other county.
Like I said, I think it's probably tied to how many people are commuting into that city. With Intermountain Healthcare located there, you've got a decent influx despite Murray only being the 10th largest city in Salt Lake County.
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  #16187  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 4:39 PM
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Hey. I actually don't know the exact height of the cab, but I'll try to find out tomorrow.
I was off a bit. The crane cab is now at 492 feet.
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  #16188  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2023, 9:37 PM
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I kind of wonder what City Creek Center will do with the Macy’s when that store eventually closes. They haven’t announced anything, but after going in there today I don’t think it’s going to be long. Their merchandising was spread way thin and they hardly had any sizes of anything. It made me really sad actually. I don’t want to see them go away, but you can just kind of tell that things are off. It’s not at all how it use to be in there. It’s almost uncomfortable shopping in there because parts of it are so thinned out. I had to stop at smith’s market place after and noticed that their clothing section was amazingly well merchandised, and well stocked… so I guess I’m trying to say that Kroger is doing a better Job than Macy’s… sad.

I noted there were also several closed stores at CCC. Looks like Rocky Mountain Chocolate is gone which is sad. Blue lemon has been “temporarily” closed for a long time and their phone has been disconnected. I’m pretty sure they are out of business (this is multiple locations). A couple of store a closed with no indication that something is coming soon. One said something was coming in the fall.

I kind of hope things pick back up for CCC When the temple construction is done.
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  #16189  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2023, 12:50 AM
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Macy's is mediocre and overpriced, and they were always doing weird things with their signage and layout. I say good riddance.

EDIT: The temple construction probably has had an effect on City Creek. But mostly I think City Creek doesn't really provide stores people care about, and is too upscale for most average people. I also know a segment of the non-Mormon population that more or less refuses to go in there, though I'm not sure if those people would go in there anyway. Either way, I think a mall like City Creek is going to struggle with how hard inflation has been hitting people recently.
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  #16190  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2023, 12:53 AM
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On another note, the old Rosslyn Heights Elementary School - home of the Salt Lake School for the Performing Arts until this summer - is getting demolished. I wonder what's going to go there. I think it would be a great location for some townhomes, but the NIMBYism in that area of the city is strong.
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  #16191  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2023, 1:23 AM
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I'd imagine what's happening to City creek is the same thing that's happening to retail everywhere.
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  #16192  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2023, 6:40 AM
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View from Hyatt Regency’s North East corner windows:





































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  #16193  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2023, 12:53 PM
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Awesome pictures, thanks for those Old & New!

In other news, Kum & Go has officially given up their pursuit of the gas station in Sugarhouse. Great news.
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  #16194  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 2:39 AM
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Those pictures were awesome. Thanks.
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  #16195  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 4:42 AM
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Using one of Old&New's recent photos I attempted to give Astra a more completed look. Not 100% accurate but it is what it is lol.
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  #16196  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 4:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing View Post
My take on this is that it really doesn't matter what Hines thought. Their Design Review approval expired on the 15th. If they intend to go forward with the project, they would have to file a new Design Review. This isn't unheard of. The next planning commission meeting has the project replacing the Office Max on 400 S back after letting their Design Review expire last year. However, that project was far less contentious compared to this one and you'd think Hines would simply want a quick vote for extension rather than another public debate.

This should be a lesson for any other developers on here. If you have a project that was approved by Design Review that is approaching it's expiration: its easier to just file an extension. Even if you aren't sure if you will still build the project. File a month or so in advance of expiration even. Never leave things until the last day.
I agree - even if the date was the 26th it didn't make sense that they would have waited until the last minute. I missed the part about the need for public debate to go through design review again and I think that says a lot

Could it be related to the new zoning laws (coming soon I think)? Would that project be allowed by right or at least exempt from design review under the new laws? I find that unlikely and it might be fair to assume it is dead
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  #16197  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajiuO View Post
I kind of wonder what City Creek Center will do with the Macy’s when that store eventually closes. They haven’t announced anything, but after going in there today I don’t think it’s going to be long. Their merchandising was spread way thin and they hardly had any sizes of anything. It made me really sad actually. I don’t want to see them go away, but you can just kind of tell that things are off. It’s not at all how it use to be in there. It’s almost uncomfortable shopping in there because parts of it are so thinned out. I had to stop at smith’s market place after and noticed that their clothing section was amazingly well merchandised, and well stocked… so I guess I’m trying to say that Kroger is doing a better Job than Macy’s… sad.

I noted there were also several closed stores at CCC. Looks like Rocky Mountain Chocolate is gone which is sad. Blue lemon has been “temporarily” closed for a long time and their phone has been disconnected. I’m pretty sure they are out of business (this is multiple locations). A couple of store a closed with no indication that something is coming soon. One said something was coming in the fall.

I kind of hope things pick back up for CCC When the temple construction is done.

It's to be expected that these would be tough times for City Creek. Brick and Mortar Retail in general has taken a nose dive throughout North America. It doesn't help that City Creek's number one draw of Temple Square is under reconstruction. I mean, Temple Square is one of the top visitor attractions in the nation. However, I think that Macy's will hold out, waiting for The Square's return.

Another problem, even after Temple Square is completed, is the lack of 24-hour residential and large hotel development within the immediate vicinity. Even with The Hyatt and Astra, I think that City Creek's environs are very much underdeveloped. Astra will help a little, along with other city-proper residential additions but it still isn't enough foot traffic in the immediate vicinity. Both the north and southwest corners of State and 1st South are an incredible waste of space. Let's not even begin to talk about the current state of the immediate block south of the Marriott bordering Main and West Temple. Anyway, if Macy's actually decided to vacate, The L.D.S. church would most likely have a close to immediate replacement, that has a healthier bottom line such as Dillard's.

Edit: Come to think of it, the new Temple Square is likely to generate a huge amount of foot traffic. Even much more than previously. I predict that City Creek and the block to the south will finally experience that Phase II renaissance that we've been waiting for. Perhaps, even the long-awaited development of the parking lots to the west of Temple Square. As many on this forum have been apotheosizing already, with the completion of Temple Square and innumerable Temple buildings worldwide there are a number of local projects previously announced that will be giving way to strong probabilities of getting off the ground. After all, The L.D.S. Church needs to invest that 100-plus billion portfolio somewhere, and I think local projects will be at the forefront. Projects such as the large remake of the area around the old Elk's Lodge, The Cascade Tower, The Multi-Residential development high-rise east of Harmon's, and development to the north of the COB. Of course, also Hine's own projects should be underway on South Temple and on Main, and the resulting synergistic sped-up development realization of the missing teeth on that entire theater tower block. Hopefully, there will even be some movement on the South Temple parking lots.

I imagine the only thing holding Property Reserve back on their many upcoming local projects at this point is labor demand and having their hands so full locally and worldwide. Remember, they're not encumbered by borrowing against high-interest rates. They pay as they go. Even before the billions in projects they are currently appropriating are completed, they will turn their attention to what's next.

Last edited by delts145; Jul 28, 2023 at 1:18 PM.
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  #16198  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 6:36 PM
freeshavocado freeshavocado is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Another problem, even after Temple Square is completed, is the lack of 24-hour residential and large hotel development within the immediate vicinity. Even with The Hyatt and Astra, I think that City Creek's environs are very much underdeveloped. Astra will help a little, along with other city-proper residential additions but it still isn't enough foot traffic in the immediate vicinity.
I think SLC is on a good trajectory for downtown residential and hotel. Of the buildings over 250 feet, including Astra and Worthington, 10 are office and 10 are residential+hotel.

This isn't a ratio you'll see in many other mid/lower-tier cities. For example, in Sacramento there are 13 office buildings and two residential+hotel over 250 ft. In Buffalo, 12 office and 3 residential+hotel. Jacksonvile, 13 office and 2 residential+hotel. Louisville, 9 office and 5 residential+hotel. Cinncinnati, 22 office and 6 residential+hotel. Kansas City, 20 office and 10 residential+hotel. Pittsburgh, 39 office and 9 residential+hotel.

I wonder how foot traffic compares from city to city. Of course, some of these cities have more small residential buildings than SLC. SLC definitely needs to fill in the gaps.

Some cities with a ratio similar to ours: Nashville, 17 vs 16. Portland, 14 vs 11. Milwaukee, 12 vs 11. I could look at a bunch more cities, but I've wasted too much time today already. Guess who's bored at work.

Last edited by freeshavocado; Jul 28, 2023 at 7:45 PM.
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  #16199  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 7:44 PM
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I looked at some more ratios of towers over 250 ft:

Omaha: 10 office and 1 residential
Oklahoma City: 14 office and 2 residential
Columbus: 21 office and 6 residential+hotel
Phoenix: 22 office and 7 residential+hotel
Charlotte: 27 office and 15 residential+hotel
New Orleans: 23 office and 10 hotel
St Louis: 28 office and 20 residential+hotel
San Antonio 8 office and 11 residential+hotel
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  #16200  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2023, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2theSKY View Post


Using one of Old&New's recent photos I attempted to give Astra a more completed look. Not 100% accurate but it is what it is lol.
Love this! Nice job.
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