New Downtown Calgary Arena

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by speedog

So cough up your opinion as to where this new supposed complex will be going if you're so sure it isn't going to be Firepark - you seem to be quite adept at shooting other people's ideas down.

Like I said earlier, what about the McMahon lands - an arena and stadium and fieldhouse could all fit there nicely and be built without demolishing the existing stadium - this would leave a lot of land available to be redeveloped as well. Could tie in a new arena to the two existing arenas as well. got hotels and some restaurants nearby and Brentwood TOD is not that far away as well...

McEwan Hall would be soooo cool to go to before and after the games!

Joking aside, I agree that it is possible there, and for the same reason, it would be more than possible at Firepark, though including MaxBell you could do better, and the LRT there is better positioned, and access to higher bandwidth roads is easier.

Brentwood is far, but if you mean accessible by LRT than that can be said for virtually and LRT anchored ToD.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by speedog

So cough up your opinion as to where this new supposed complex will be going if you're so sure it isn't going to be Firepark - you seem to be quite adept at shooting other people's ideas down.

I've said it numerous times. The new entertainment complex will be going in the West Village.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I've said it numerous times. The new entertainment complex will be going in the West Village.

Actually it would appear that you've never said it in these forums - certainly not in this thread.

Now I could be wrong and you're more than welcome to post up links to specific posts to prove such, but it just doesn't appear that you've ever said the new entertainment complex will be going in the West Village.

[suburbia]

Calgary's new comprehensive sports, entertainment, cultural, residential and business district:



Firepark (1.8M sf) can be seen on the far side of memorial, max bell lands (0.5M sf) mid-picture, with LRT in-between. Mouth of 17ave SE just out of frame in the bottom right, location of new performance space. All 2.3M sf with magnificent views of the river valley, downtown and the mountains. Exceptional access to roads and public transit, both LRT and buses.

Glenbow archives photo details:

Title and statement of responsibility area
Title proper
Aerial view of Max Bell Arena, Calgary, Alberta.
Level of description
Item
Repository
Glenbow Archives
Reference code
GLEN glen-3237-is-glen-1769
Dates of creation area
Date(s)

October 2, 1986 (Creation)

Creator
Hall, Jim

Archival description area
Name of creator
Hall, Jim

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Doug

Stampede Park is such a waste of desirable inner city land. 355 days per year, it is a wasteland of parking. At the very least, the grandstand and entire riverfront should be redeveloped. Maybe it would make sense to move the midway and rodeo events somewhere like Fire Park and redevelop the entire parking area. The Big 4 site would be ideal for an arena with an extension of 17th Ave linking up to Olympic way/4 St.

I 100% agree with you!

But this will never happen in my life time.

[speedog]

On a side note, does anyone one know why there's an underpass already built from the EB-NB Memorial-Barlow off-ramp directly under Memorial into the east side of Firepark- it's been there for years and never been used to the best of my recollection. it's about 135 meters west on the Barlow/Memorial overpass.

[Spring2008]

Surrounded by single family and industrial - wonderful

Originally Posted by suburbia

Calgary's new comprehensive sports, entertainment, cultural, residential and business district:



Firepark (1.8M sf) can be seen on the far side of memorial, max bell lands (0.5M sf) mid-picture, with LRT in-between. Mouth of 17ave SE just out of frame in the bottom right, location of new performance space. All 2.3M sf with magnificent views of the river valley, downtown and the mountains. Exceptional access to roads and public transit, both LRT and buses.

Glenbow archives photo details:

[The Fisher Account]

The Big 4 would be a great idea!

The Flames owners can't wait to bend over and let the Stampede board continue to give it to them from behind and hand over millions in future profits on parking, concessions, etc just because you think it might be a better use of space!



There's a reason why the Flames ownership group is taking their ball home and telling the Stampede to pound sand. Money.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

The Big 4 would be a great idea!

The Flames owners can't wait to bend over and let the Stampede board continue to give it to them from behind and hand over millions in future profits on parking, concessions, etc just because you think it might be a better use of space!



There's a reason why the Flames ownership group is taking their ball home and telling the Stampede to pound sand. Money.

All that aside, my ideal / dream scenario would be for the new arena to be built on the site of the Big 4 with a trenched / tunnelled LRT running where it is now, parallel to Macleod and additional mixed use developments popping up all along Macleod and down 17th... One can dream...

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Calgary's new comprehensive sports, entertainment, cultural, residential and business district:



Firepark (1.8M sf) can be seen on the far side of memorial, max bell lands (0.5M sf) mid-picture, with LRT in-between. Mouth of 17ave SE just out of frame in the bottom right, location of new performance space. All 2.3M sf with magnificent views of the river valley, downtown and the mountains. Exceptional access to roads and public transit, both LRT and buses.

Epic, and with a view!

Originally Posted by Ferreth

My current office view - Golder's building 6th floor as the sun starts to light the buildings downtown. Just have to live with the Firepark tower somewhere in the picture.


Calgary Skyline Early Sunrise at Work ip1040 by ferreth, on Flickr

[lineman]

Originally Posted by speedog

On a side note, does anyone one know why there's an underpass already built from the EB-NB Memorial-Barlow off-ramp directly under Memorial into the east side of Firepark- it's been there for years and never been used to the best of my recollection. it's about 135 meters west on the Barlow/Memorial overpass.

It was built to provide access to the Firestone plant. By the time it was done, the plant was shuttered.

[mykalberta]

Long time reader first time poster.

Here are my relatively un-educated thoughts on the new arena.

I think there are 5 possibilities (all previously mentioned) (rated in order in which I think are most likely) although I would be shocked if its any locaton other than the

Before I give a synopsis of the ordering I think its important to note a few likely facts.

1 - The Flames will receive no direct money (ala Edmonton) so any value they extract from the site has to be either indirect funding or through their own means. Because of this the City will have much smaller input as to where this stadium goes from "Best for the City" PoV

2 - There have been alot of rumor/reports that the flames season and box ticket base is 80+ in the NW and SW portion of the City. I dont think this point is lost on the ownership group

3 - The state of Calgary convention centre facilities is atrocious

Here are my guesses/reasons as to where it will go.

1 - West Village (80% chance).

While I like the Citys prelim area plan for the area, I dont see it ever coming to fruition given the funding required to remediate the land. The City used future tax revenues from Calgarys largest skyscraper to fund the EV improvments. Given the distance to the river I dont see a building like that being able to fund the requirements for the WV plan.

If it doesnt go here, then I think this area sits as it is for another 30+ years. Also from an urbanist perspective I think Calgary benefits from a constrainted downtown size, everything is more concentraded in less blocks. Look to Edmonton to see what happends when your downtown has no real boundires.

Other forums have had people that have stated that none of the buisnesses in the WV actually own the land, they lease the land so aquiring the land shouldnt be to cost prohibitive (if they havent already acquired it).

I think the Flames plan is for a combo arena/stadium (very similar to what was leaked) that would connect so you could use for trade shows etc. If I was a betting man I would bet that the Flames already have Casino permit from the province waiting as well as an expansion MLS franchise.

I think the way the Flames extract value is by having public money pay for the remediation of the site and doing some public boardwalk improvments next to the river and pedestrian access to the downtown and re-doing 14th street interchange.

I disagree with some that indicate this will also come with a Bow/Crowchild upgrade. I dont think that will ever get "fixed" the way people want. The most I see is maye removing the exit from Crow to Memorial East and a few other slight improvments.

2 - Firepark

I think Firepark is the best from an Urbanist PoV and a "what could happen" but I dont think you invest 1 Bill in "what could happen". Especially when the majority of your patrons are SW and NW. I think the City and Urbanists would prefer this since arena districts are notorious blackholes and might as well put it in Firepark since nothink is likely to go there for 50+ years.

3 - McMahan

Lots of space but I dont see the Uni budging as they likely want to keep that for future expansion

4 - Railtown

I dont see the Flames wanting Railtown, to small to what they want to do and too and close the Stampede and no reason to give them any business if they arent willing to come to the table and offer some money.

I also see this as the lowest ranking transit. To walk to the existing lines from this location would be a 5 block walk, and the new line likely wont happen for 20 years and so I think that reasoning is mute

5 - Stampede - if no information had been release on various other forums and sources I would say this should be the number 1 choice given the differing lots that exist.

We could all be fooled and it will go here, likely the #1 or 2 choice for the City but I dont see it happning because of the greed and lack of vision of the Stampede board. Heck if you were to mabye have some creativity in design you might even beable to house the stampede facilities in the new football stadium and then the Stampede could demolish the grandstand and re-develop it.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburbia

BTW FUsilly - given you supposedly have me on ignore, to play that act through all the way you need to stop responding to my posts.

I've touched a nerve.....

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I'll get off this horse ... but not before pointing out that both Railtown and West village are two small for a comprehensive complex that Ken King has been talking about.

Yeah, it could work if bow trail were underground but, uhh, you'd do that instead of two LRT lines? LOLQ

King did refer to a Field House in the radio interview. However, I reckon that the Flames organization tying themselves to the field house has a lot to do with posturing themselves and the notion of giving back to the community. The question is: why would the Flames be involved in a facility that already has a location set out and a rough funding model in place? If the field house were to be inclusive of a facility that includes an arena and stadium the field house would be the first item cut. Plus it has an enormous footprint.

How about this: The Flames build a complex that is comprised of stadium, arena, some convention space and entertainment district. They help to fund the field house under the Flames name, much like the Calgary Flames Arenas. Cutting out the field house from the equation opens up a number of options with regard to location and space requirements.

Bow Trail doesn't even need to go underground. It could just pass under part of the facility, above ground. Check the link and you will have a better idea of what I mean.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=expo+boule...nnw4jSJWt3y1KdX9g&cbp=12,240.65,,0,15.92

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Epic, and with a view!

Yeah, the view of the side of an arena will be totally epic.

[Innersoul1]

googspecial. Have a peek at the Century Link Field in Seattle along with the Events centre between the stadium and Safeco Field. How would that fit into the discussed sites? See the link here:
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=CenturyLin...013089,0.033023&oq=Century+Link&t=h&z=17

Additionally, maybe we are getting the wrong impression about the field house. The Seahawks have a practice facility (field house) in Renton that includes a full sized field along with fitness facitlites. Could something like this be more along the lines of what the Flames are looking at?
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Seahawks+W...on,+Washington+98056,+United+States&z=17

It's 200,000 square feet and you can find a virtual tour at the bottom of this page:
http://http://www.seahawks.com/team/facilities/vmac.html

Obviously the Flames and the Stampeders don't have the same needs and a NFL team some many of the team facilitites could be used for community facilities. I have toured the building and it's something amazing.

[Surrealplaces]

I think West Village is the most likely spot. I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is to build an arena/stadium combo and involve public funding in an overall plan. West Village makes the most sense for that type of plan.

I'm not a huge fan of the Firestone location, but one thing that would be kind of cool would be an arena with a large glass wall overlooking downtown and the city.

[nick.flood]

delete

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by nick.flood

This is the view I prefer my hockey arena to have.

Source: Flamesnation.ca

It was so long ago, some people don't even realize that the Flames ever won the cup.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by bt04ku

Yeah, the view of the side of an arena will be totally epic.

Another bozo comment from someone who doesn't comprehend that a mixed use development includes commercial, residential, cultural and entertainment.

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I think the Flames plan is for a combo arena/stadium (very similar to what was leaked) that would connect so you could use for trade shows etc. If I was a betting man I would bet that the Flames already have Casino permit from the province waiting as well as an expansion MLS franchise.

I agree with your thinking here, and thus a huge factor becomes the reality that neither Railtown or West Village have enough space.

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I think Firepark is the best from an Urbanist PoV and a "what could happen" but I dont think you invest 1 Bill in "what could happen". Especially when the majority of your patrons are SW and NW. I think the City and Urbanists would prefer this since arena districts are notorious blackholes and might as well put it in Firepark since nothink is likely to go there for 50+ years.

I'm curious about your sources regarding "majority of your patrons are SW and NW"?

Given that there will likely not be much or any public funds, the value in putting up a facility or set of facilities will be development potential around them, and there being enough space for that. If the lot identified doesn't have enough space around it, there is nothing for the owners to recover their money on. The more cheapish space they can elevate around it, the better the business case for doing this. A massive issue in much of the analysis thus far is people not understanding that the bigger picture play is making money. That can't happen when wedged in within a highly developed area, as other people make the gravy in that scenario. Edmonton is a good example, the huge difference being Edmonton being three decades behind Calgary from a densification perspective in the core.