Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Makid

…The owner of the property has to agree with the designation. Neither the City when they owned it, nor Hines would have accepted the designation. This means that at best, the theater would have stayed up for maybe 6 months longer than it did.

The lot is too small for a large theater without nearby parking. Neither Hines nor Zions will part with their current parking allotments. This means that patrons would be walking nearly 2 blocks to attend the theater. Without a larger nearby population, the theater would not have had sufficient support. This information is also found in the initial report for the new Eccles theater as part of the process to determine the location.

The City would have agreed to the historic designation as the city represents the people and the people made it very clear through multiple public workshops that they wanted the theater to be preserved and restored.

Trax station, Regent street parking garage, US Bank Parking garage, City Creek Center parking garage, Chase Bank parking garage, Walker Center Parking garage, and 222 South Main parking garage are all within a block of the Pantages Theatre parcel.

[Paniolo Man]

July 18th photos.

Temps in the double digits? Had to be the day to catch TRAX with my bike and get a few construction photos.

Sugar Alley, cleanup progressing.








Alta Terra.


I know Dixon is already done, but I really like the look.


9Th East and Sugarmont, unsure of name.


Sugar Town Apartments.


753 East 2100 South.


Lotus Republic Sugarhouse.


Izzy South.


Izzy North.


Bowers Residences.


Spotted this beautiful old church at the corner of 500 East and Hollywood ave. Is it being demolished? I am not a religious man, but losing a beautiful old building like this is truly sad.


Correct me if I've mislabeled anything. I didn't get further east, Twenty Ones will need to wait.

[msbutah]

The church was damaged in the 2020 earthquake and is up for sale. LINK

[i-215]

It's interesting. The Trib article you post mentions how the deal requires the purchaser to demolish the building. It effectively lets the LDS church bulldoze the building without generating the outrage of doing it themselves.

I'm assuming it must be an old unreinforced masonry building?

[Paniolo Man]

Masonry can be repaired and reinforced, where's the historic preservation outrage over this? There seems to be a sad trend of early to mid century LDS Meetinghouses being sold with the requirement to demolish. In Logan they did the same with one on the corner of 200 South and 100 East.

[Blah_Amazing]

Great update! Thanks Paniolo Man.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Masonry can be repaired and reinforced, where's the historic preservation outrage over this? There seems to be a sad trend of early to mid century LDS Meetinghouses being sold with the requirement to demolish. In Logan they did the same with one on the corner of 200 South and 100 East.

Definitely disappointed - but not surprised. We've lost a great deal of historic LDS meetinghouses (and other churches) over the years. But I've exhausted myself trying to support preservation. I've been told multiple times that progress is the only thing that matters and that these buildings aren't significant.

On their own, they're not. But collectively? They make up the fabric of the city that we're so quick to destroy.

[SaltCityScrapers]

Originally Posted by Old&New

The City would have agreed to the historic designation as the city represents the people and the people made it very clear through multiple public workshops that they wanted the theater to be preserved and restored.

Trax station, Regent street parking garage, US Bank Parking garage, City Creek Center parking garage, Chase Bank parking garage, Walker Center Parking garage, and 222 South Main parking garage are all within a block of the Pantages Theatre parcel.

Give it up. It's gone. That horse is dead. Quit beating it.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by SaltCityScrapers

Give it up. It's gone. That horse is dead. Quit beating it.

40 posts and you act like you own the place.

[rockies]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Definitely disappointed - but not surprised. We've lost a great deal of historic LDS meetinghouses (and other churches) over the years. But I've exhausted myself trying to support preservation. I've been told multiple times that progress is the only thing that matters and that these buildings aren't significant.

On their own, they're not. But collectively? They make up the fabric of the city that we're so quick to destroy.

Before moving to SLC I never would have imagined how much time I would spend upset about old churches and temples being demolished. Where I grew up I don't think there was a historic structure within 10 miles of my house so it was quite a shock that the church is so eager to demolish the cute buildings around the city.

They basically have unlimited money for fixing these up - they should hold onto the properties and turn them into reception halls or administrative buildings etc (or just sell it without a demolition stipulation). Why not double down on the temple and chapel building spree by fixing up some old buildings too? I have always found it odd that they already have mormons from around the world coming to SLC and don't really place any emphasis on the beautiful historic chapels and sites outside temple square.

A friend of mine suggested that the unattractive, plain design of newer temples and chapels is intentional to decenter the architecture and that it is not the important aspect of the building. Maybe that plays a role in the amount of demolitions

[slckid]

Originally Posted by downtownslcresident

I for one am not thrilled about Michael’s sudden appearance on this forum. I don’t love that he’s already been using it as a propaganda outlet for himself.

I think we can all agree that demolishing the theater before plans were ready to actually move forward was not what any of us wanted to see. But I really hope that y’all don’t embrace this cook and encourage him to continue his ridiculous triad against the city and further preventing development on this site. I wish we could have had both a theater and a tower, but now that the theater is gone, I want to see the empty lot used for a new tower sooner rather than later. I truly hope the city finds a way to prevent Michael from continually holding up development. I don’t believe for one second that he has the means or support to make what he claims he wants to do for the site come to fruition, and he’s as likely as anyone to cause the site to remain an empty lot.

And yes, the middle of an entertainment district is EXACTLY where you build a new high rise residential development. The amount of pedestrian activity it could bring to the neighborhood would result in the surrounding entertainment district to become even more lively and draw even more new businesses to the area. Michael’s comment to the contrary is proof to me that I don’t want him involved in development plans for the lot AT ALL.

Not propaganda, but the actual truth. Myself and the facts have been misconstrued on this forum for apparently several years. Only right to come set the record straight. Hines, Mendenhall, and the RDA Director Danny Walz have lied to the public about every single aspect of this deal. They are the ones pushing real propaganda. The Pantages was always historic, was in amazing condition, and could have been restored for far less than the inflated costs they reported. They broke multiple laws over this deal. What part are you not understanding?

That's cool you love development. I love development too, I just met with the folks behind the Rio Grande Plan today and gave them nothing but praise and support for their genius work. But it's pretty pathetic to defend public corruption and a city government literally working against the public, committing fraud, and spreading lies while not understanding the actual facts and reality of this story. Learn the full story

https://www.youtube.com/live/Lx_UMb8e-9Q?feature=share

And no, you don't destroy an international theater district for apartments. Nobody flies to Salt Lake for apartments. That's not how entertainment or tourism works. Restored Pantages would have brought more economic impact than dozens of residential towers could ever hope to.

[slckid]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I think we all would've loved to see a restored (and functional) Pantages Theater, but the fact is that the city tried for years to get somebody willing to put up the money for restoration, and establish a solid plan for its continued use, and no solid plans came forward. And for many years before the city bought it, it sat unused and deteriorating. Many people in the city didn't even know it existed. And even before that, its historic value had already been damaged by careless renovations. I obviously want to see history preserved where possible, but sometimes things just can't be saved. I'm sure I said it here before, but the time to save Pantages was 20 years ago.

That's not accurate. Hines and LaSalle had exclusive agreements over the theater since 2016. They held the theater hostage poisoning every real chance to save it as they colluded and lied to the public about its historic feasibility. There were multiple parties interested to purchase and restore the theater, our group included. I literally made an offer for $2 million for the theater and we working on a business plan to go up to $10 million. I had investors. It was very historic, it was nominated and accepted to the historic registry in November of 2021.

Pantages could absolutely have been saved and we have national historic restoration experts to verify that. This narrative it couldn't is pure lies from Hines and the city.

[slckid]

Originally Posted by Makid

The theater was sold to Hines by Biskupski. There is a law that allows a lot that cannot be utilized or developed to be sold to an adjacent property owner.

The cost was set at $0.00 due to Hines agreeing to make 10% of the apartments affordable to those making around 50-70% of the Areas Median Income.

Neither Mendenhall or anyone in the RDA had the authority or ability to block the sale. At worst, if the RDA had stated that part of Hines plan had not met the agreement, the price would have been set to the amount the City purchased the lot from Howa. Had Mendenhall tried to stop the completion of the sale, not only would the City have lost, the city would have been on the hook for between $75million and $150 Million due to potential lost income.

As for the 150 Main apartment tower, it is still planned. The primary equity partner that Hines had for the project walked due to higher interest rates. Hines has been going through the process of getting another equity partner and if everything goes as planned, foundation work should start towards the end of this year or early next year.

Sundial is also still a Hines project. Hines did look at shifting the project from Commercial to Residential. I have heard that Sundial will move forward as Commercial as people are returning to the office. I heard that sometime in 2024 is when the project should start construction.

I have also heard that Hines is looking at additional projects for the City.

Lastly, on the theater, even if demolition could have been halted, pending Historic review. The owner of the property has to agree with the designation. Neither the City when they owned it, nor Hines would have accepted the designation. This means that at best, the theater would have stayed up for maybe 6 months longer than it did.

The lot is too small for a large theater without nearby parking. Neither Hines nor Zions will part with their current parking allotments. This means that patrons would be walking nearly 2 blocks to attend the theater. Without a larger nearby population, the theater would not have had sufficient support. This information is also found in the initial report for the new Eccles theater as part of the process to determine the location.

A lot of inaccurate info here.

The adjacent property owner law is now illegal because of this deal.

Mendenhall has been on the city council since 2014. She voted for the exclusive agreements for Hines/LaSalle in 2016. She took illegal donations from LaSalle in October 2019 while this was being negotiated a week after Hines and the RDA are on email colluding to hide the historic info about the Pantages from the public, specifically that the theater was eligible for the national registry, $10m+ in historic tax credits, and the theater would then be protected from demolition as an SLC Landmark. The Pantages deal was always illegal. It violated both Utah and Salt Lake City Historic laws. It was a public building. The city was required to put it on the national registry and make it a landmark. They never did.

The city absolutely could have blocked the deal with zero repercussions from Hines for these and other reasons. Hines can't then turn around and sue the city after they don't follow through with an illegal, fraudulent, and corrupt deal.

Plenty of parking downtown. There are literally parking lots all over right there, especially city creek. Pantages was in the middle of two Trax stations. I thought you all loved public transportation on here?

And yeah, your part about the city not accepting historic designation is completely wrong as again they are required to follow their own historic laws.

It's totally cool if none of you want to believe me about the facts of this story and what is going on with the Pantages lot. I don't really care. Just saw people asking about the 150 Main apartments and spreading wrong info about the deal so thought I would give the truth.

The 150 Main apartment tower is never going to happen. I have multiple lawsuits in the works right now, a team of attorneys working on this, and I could block it right now. It's amazing that anyone here thinks Hines and the city could just collude and lie against all of Salt Lake and Utah, break multiple laws, and nothing would come of it. They are all in a lot of trouble here, like end careers, ongoing investigations kind of trouble. Also amazing that some of you here care more about a billionaire skyscraper than our city's Mayor lying for years and working against the public she is sworn to serve. Not much SLC pride if you ask me!

You should all take a break from reading about development and go study the consequences of illegality in local government and the fallout from public corruption and massive amounts of fraud. We still have laws and ethics here

But hey, keep ignoring the facts and the reality of the situation if you want. All good with me, just don't say I didn't try to give you the real facts

Cheers

[TheGeographer]

All my info on the Pantages comes from here, so my thoughts on the theatre are based on what is discussed here for better or worse. Since my info does come from here and folks like Makid have provided accurate info on many other developments, I take what they say as legitimate. If lawsuits are ongoing then only time will tell what is really going on. I’ll patiently wait and see. If even half of what Michael is saying is true then to you Michael I say good luck in our court of law where money can buy altered stories and reduced judgments. Hines is going to have a lot of money to throw at the courts if it comes to that to prove their story. Basically even if what you’re saying is true people like me will never know how things went down. And we’re all just development and tower nerds here who like towers. So it’s not our fault for being excited about a new tower. And speaking for myself here it’s hard to see through the weeds to believe what went down. One thing I can 100% agree on, there is a ton of parking and public transport downtown. Too much parking imo

[Makid]

Not worth it...

[SaltCityScrapers]

Originally Posted by Old&New

40 posts and you act like you own the place.

*YOU* and people like you are why I rarely post.
I have an open mind, you don't.
You are passionate about this, no doubt...BUT...
If you want a thread to vent about the Utah Theater, create one.
I've only posted 40 times? So what!
Quality over quantity.
I've been reading skyscraperpage and following this forum since the early 2000s.
My original user, Skyscrapers4Me, was created in 2007 after several years of just reading.
My current user was created in 2014 after I lost my password.
I suspect...*YOU* are the johnny-come-lately, sonny.
I don't feel the need to blab endlessly about dead projects, unlike some people. No one needs to feel my angst.
I'm old school, sonny. Older and wiser than you, sonny.
I was in high school when than Sears Tower and original WTC were built in the late 1970s.
I was upset when the Hotel Newhouse got imploded. Remember that?
I went to dances at the Terrace Ballroom next door many times, saw many good concerts there.
I can tell you far more about the history of architecture in SLC and the background then you could ever imagine.
I love skyscrapers. I love architecture. I love city development. I love SLC. And I love good theater.
Makid is spot on with those posts. Facts, not emotion.
You want to come on here and hijack the forum with endless posts about a theater that no one paid to restore, 30 years too late.
If you wanted the theater saved, why didn't you pony up the money and restore it yourself? There are already two theaters in the area, there is no parking in the area, no one went there in the first place, it was a fire hazard that was waiting for homeless people to accidentally burn down when looking for shelter in the winter, and it wasn't earthquake-proof.
If you want to act and have any self-confidence, why don't you audition and go on stage there?
I would've loved to see the theater saved and restored, but no one did it, no one ever would!

There are many others reading and writing on this forum who feel the same way but bite their tongues.

Now continue attacking me and anyone else who would like to see actual development of skyscrapers in the Salt Lake area, while you delay actual development that would've upgraded the area and provided more customers to the existing theaters.
People post facts about why the theater got torn down, facts about why the city does things the way it does, and you rip into them and call them liars.
You attack the developers.
I'm sure you'll go off and attack me personally, while bringing nothing valid to the table.
The moderators allow your constant posting and attacking. I'm hoping I don't get banned now for saying what needed to be said. I'm done with it.
Yes, you touched a nerve.

Back off.
That being said...
Have a nice day and calm down. Prove me wrong by letting it go.
I apologize to the other readers, moderators, and posters for this rant.
No need to talk to this guy anymore, for me anyway. Let's get back to actual topics.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by SaltCityScrapers

*YOU* and people like you are why I rarely post.
I have an open mind, you don't.
You are passionate about this, no doubt...BUT...
If you want a thread to vent about the Utah Theater, create one.
I've only posted 40 times? So what!
Quality over quantity.
I've been reading skyscraperpage and following this forum since the early 2000s.
My original user, Skyscrapers4Me, was created in 2007 after several years of just reading.
My current user was created in 2014 after I lost my password.
I suspect...*YOU* are the johnny-come-lately, sonny.
I don't feel the need to blab endlessly about dead projects, unlike some people. No one needs to feel my angst.
I'm old school, sonny. Older and wiser than you, sonny.
I was in high school when than Sears Tower and original WTC were built in the late 1970s.
I was upset when the Hotel Newhouse got imploded. Remember that?
I went to dances at the Terrace Ballroom next door many times, saw many good concerts there.
I can tell you far more about the history of architecture in SLC and the background then you could ever imagine.
I love skyscrapers. I love architecture. I love city development. I love SLC. And I love good theater.
Makid is spot on with those posts. Facts, not emotion.
You want to come on here and hijack the forum with endless posts about a theater that no one paid to restore, 30 years too late.
If you wanted the theater saved, why didn't you pony up the money and restore it yourself? There are already two theaters in the area, there is no parking in the area, no one went there in the first place, it was a fire hazard that was waiting for homeless people to accidentally burn down when looking for shelter in the winter, and it wasn't earthquake-proof.
If you want to act and have any self-confidence, why don't you audition and go on stage there?
I would've loved to see the theater saved and restored, but no one did it, no one ever would!

There are many others reading and writing on this forum who feel the same way but bite their tongues.

Now continue attacking me and anyone else who would like to see actual development of skyscrapers in the Salt Lake area, while you delay actual development that would've upgraded the area and provided more customers to the existing theaters.
People post facts about why the theater got torn down, facts about why the city does things the way it does, and you rip into them and call them liars.
You attack the developers.
I'm sure you'll go off and attack me personally, while bringing nothing valid to the table.
The moderators allow your constant posting and attacking. I'm hoping I don't get banned now for saying what needed to be said. I'm done with it.
Yes, you touched a nerve.

Back off.
That being said...
Have a nice day and calm down. Prove me wrong by letting it go.
I apologize to the other readers, moderators, and posters for this rant.
No need to talk to this guy anymore, for me anyway. Let's get back to actual topics.

Thick skinned I see too. Who are these imaginary people you've created who support your opinions? I can also have my opinions and voice them too, even if they're exclusively my own. I also have that right as a forum member, as far as the moderators allow. Its you who were trying to shut me down.

Originally Posted by SaltCityScrapers

Give it up. It's gone. That horse is dead. Quit beating it.

I guess you don't care about ethics and accountability? Seems you wouldn't mind or care if they were Russian oligarchs, so long as they were building you a shiny glass tower.

[Paniolo Man]

[Old&New]

BuildingSaltLake


Ballpark changes, continued: New plans coming for 300 West & Central Pointe UTA station area

...Change is in the air. Yesterday’s car-oriented commercial and light-industrial zoning may be seeing its last days south of Downtown in Salt Lake City. As we reported last week, the east side of the Ballpark TRAX station is proposed to have a major upzone...

https://buildingsaltlake.com/ballpar...-station-area/

[wrendog]

This message board. Lol.