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  #16121  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 9:02 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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They are talking about it on CFRA. There is a water leak at Rideau Station. Apparently, somebody has posted a video, but not sure where.

https://twitter.com/OCTranspoLive/status/1623062093904637970
     
     
  #16122  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 9:05 PM
qprcanada qprcanada is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
They are talking about it on CFRA. There is a water leak at Rideau Station. Apparently, somebody has posted a video, but not sure where.

https://twitter.com/OCTranspoLive/status/1623062093904637970
Here is the video

https://twitter.com/craig58346270/status/1623059357398102024?s=46&t=x3kqgxakqExR6Z2GhXtk8w
     
     
  #16123  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 9:12 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Thanks.

This does not look good at all.
     
     
  #16124  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 9:33 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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  #16125  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2023, 11:24 PM
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It was back to normal around 5:30, except eastbound trains listed Cyrville as the end.
     
     
  #16126  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2023, 12:51 PM
SidetrackedSue SidetrackedSue is offline
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The keeping the doors open while the train is being held in a station is the worst part for the passengers on 'unaffected' trains.


I feel the policy should be that one of the rear doors be left open and the remainder closed so passengers have the option of moving out of the coldest parts of the train or the option of leaving the train and heading to a used car lot to buy a car.

My friend spent 2 hours getting home from Blair last week and was freezing most of the time. First her train just didn't go anywhere. Then they were told to change platforms and get on the train that just arrived. She gladly did so because it was warm when she boarded (it cooled down as the doors remained opened at Blair). Then the original train left the station(!). Finally her train moved, but even then it had long waits in stations until they got past UOttawa. Waits with the doors open. When she got to Tunneys the crowds waiting for buses were too much so she just walked (10 - 15 minutes) home.
     
     
  #16127  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2023, 2:23 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Weird. Why don’t they just put the train on user operated door mode? It works literally everywhere else in the world with LRT.
     
     
  #16128  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2023, 2:53 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Burst sprinkler pipe at Rideau Station blamed for brief LRT disruption Tuesday

Megan Gillis, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 08, 2023 • 1 minute read


A burst sprinkler system pipe is believed to have been the cause of a leak at Rideau Station that disrupted Confederation Line service for about an hour Tuesday afternoon, OC Transpo said.

A fire alarm was activated at Rideau Station at about 3 p.m., the transit service said Tuesday evening, and staff found a “significant” leak near the westbound platform.

The station was closed as Ottawa Fire Services investigated the leak. OC Transpo staff were at Rideau Station to direct riders.

While work was underway to stop the leak, trains ran from Hurdman to Blair stations with replacement bus service from Tunney’s Pasture to Hurdman stations, OC Transpo said.

Full Line 1 service restarted just before 4 p.m., the transit service said.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-blamed-for-brief-lrt-disruption-tuesday
     
     
  #16129  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2023, 2:57 PM
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Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
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That’s what you get out of a transit system designed by politicians. They start out making it look like the door is open for public input then freeze you out of the process
     
     
  #16130  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2023, 4:12 PM
llatch llatch is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
While work was underway to stop the leak, trains ran from Hurdman to Blair stations with replacement bus service from Tunney’s Pasture to Hurdman stations, OC Transpo said.
Funny, all the comms OC put out said that full service was running, just not stopping at Rideau. The text I got also said R1 was available with no other details about where it was running. Their website was also inaccessible during this period, and when it finally did load, there was no details other than "Line 1" in yellow.
     
     
  #16131  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 1:55 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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Another potential weather event today. What are the bets system fails again and stations or part of it close?
     
     
  #16132  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 8:43 PM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Good Day. <???>

one for the record books :::: IT WAS (wait for it )...... !!! ICE !!!

CTV News : https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/officials-blame-ottawa-lrt-shutdown-on-unique-ice-buildup-1.6267070

Quote:
Officials blame Ottawa LRT shutdown on 'unique' ice buildup
Michael Woods - Published Feb. 9, 2023 2:46 p.m. EST

More than a month since a section of Ottawa’s LRT system shut down for six days after a freezing rainstorm, officials have revealed the cause of the outage.

The short answer: it was ice.

But how the ice got there, officials said, was due to a “unique combination of factors.”

Those factors led to two trains on the Confederation Line, one eastbound and one westbound, getting stuck near Hurdman Station. Two trains later sent to help also got stuck.

The city and its LRT contractor Rideau Transit Maintenance said they are exploring several options—from anti-icing treatments to a rescue diesel train—to stop a similar outage from happening again.

It is not clear why, after four years of operating the system, some of the ice mitigation strategies have not been put in place.

‘Unique’ weather conditions

The city’s transit commission heard details for the first time on Thursday about what exactly led to the shutdown in early January.

The six-day shutdown happened when some freezing rain caused buildup on the overhead wire that powers the trains between Hurdman and Lees stations. Service still ran on parts of the line farther east and west.

Richard Holder, the city’s director of engineering, said specific conditions at the time led to more ice buildup on the wires than usual.

The Rideau River was ice-free due to a warmer-than-usual start to January, he said. That led to high levels of humidity in the area, which led to further accumulation on top of the freezing rain. This all led to ice quickly building up on the overhead catenary wire that powers the trains, he said.

“This unique combination of factors caused greater ice building in that area than elsewhere on the system,” Holder said. “We’re very certain that this occurred because of the accumulated ice on the OCS contact wire.”

Contact wire ‘melted’

When recovery trains were dispatched later, they were forced to go slowly, which resulted in a lot of electrical arcing on a small section of the contact wire.

“Normally when a vehicle is moving fast and you get arcing, the arcing event is spread out over a larger area, with the vehicles basically stationary that arcing all occurred in the same section, creating a huge amount of energy, a huge amount of heat generated,” he said.

“The contact wires basically melted,” Holder said.

Crews then had to spent several days clearing ice off the wires and then fixing the wires. They broke ice by hand off about 5.6 kilometres of the line, from uOttawa station all the way to Tremblay station.

“That breaking of the ice, and when I say by hand, it is literally somebody in a high-rail vehicle on a bucket breaking the ice off by hand,” he said.

And while repairing the wires only took a few hours, he said a full inspection of the system took several days.

City looking into diesel rescue train

The city and Rideau Transit Maintenance have established a working group on the overhead wires.

Certain changes have already been made. The city is installing winter carbons on light rail vehicles, Holder said.

“Those are a brass insert installed into the pantograph, which have a more aggressive metal edge and are able to break through and shear off the ice accumulation,” he said.

OC Transpo will also “strategically” place staff on the line for monitoring ice buildup and arcing, he said. And a new onboard train diagnostic system will give advance warning for issues happening with the vehicle, such as voltage drops.

Down the line, the city is also investigating use of anti-icing treatments to be used on the contact wires in advance of freezing rain, Holder said. The Toronto Transit Commission uses such a system.

“They have a pretty extensive program for their trams where they have vehicles out on the street continually spraying anti-freezing agents onto the OCS,” he said.

They are also looking at procuring a diesel recovery train, which wouldn’t be affected by problems with the overhead wire.

“I’m kind of shocked we don’t have one of those yet,” Coun. Tim Tierney told transit commission.

RTM head Mario Guerra said they are already looking for such a vehicle.

“You can appreciate our system is unique in terms of the envelope, so it’s going to prove difficult to get something off the shelf that would fit into our system,” he said. “But we also have some equipment here that we think we might be able to alter for that purpose.”
and at the end..... silly me thought we were supposed to have already gotten such vehicles - snow removal equipment, hustlers, yard pushers, etc........ Silly ME !!!
oh... yeah.... the hustlers got lost in cost optimizations long ago...... we use other trains as tow vehicles ! <snort>
and those snow brushers and ploughs that they had photos of on the Stage 1 website as the latest and greatest in winter line maint equip...... i guess they went by the board too . <snort>

<sigh>

yo jimmy.... that -not a Cadillac but a Chevrolet- comment...... umn.... a copper-plated (not gold-plated, somebody made a profit) Lada or Yugo or....????

Last edited by PHrenetic; Feb 9, 2023 at 10:31 PM.
     
     
  #16133  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 9:29 PM
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rocketphish rocketphish is offline
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Electrical arcing 'basically melted' LRT power line after January ice storm
The LRT system had withstood more than 50 similar freezing rain events without any problems, a city official said Thursday.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 09, 2023 • 3 minute read


Fog rolling off the open Rideau River near Lees Station condensed and froze to the LRT’s overhead power lines in the area during a Jan. 4 freezing rain storm, adding to an ice build-up that exceeded the design limits of the wires, the city’s transit commission was told Thursday.

The ice build-up brought two trains to a halt and eventually caused arcing so severe that it melted the copper cable in the train’s overhead catenary system, Director for Engineering Services Richard Holder told the commission.

As the trains’ pantographs, which connect the trains to the OCS, “bumped along over layers of ice,” he said, it caused intermittent power disruptions that triggered faults in the system, bringing those trains to a halt.

“We had eyewitness accounts of arcing in the area and ultimately … the arcing became too serious for the vehicles to continue,” Holder said.

Later, when OC Transpo dispatched rescue trains to tow the stopped trains to the Belfast Road maintenance and storage facility, the arcing became even worse.

“With the slow speed of vehicles trying to move back to the MSF, it resulted in very high-energy arcing that occurred in a very localized section of the contact wire,” Holder said.

“The contact wires basically melted. With the vehicles basically stationery, that arcing all occurred in the main section, generating a huge amount of energy and a huge amount of heat.”

The heavy gauge copper wire has a melting point of 1,000 C and has a breaking strength of 18,000 pounds (816.5 kilograms), Holder said.

It was the most complete and detailed explanation yet of what caused the six-day partial shutdown of the Confederation Line after what seemed to be a fairly ordinary ice storm. In fact, the LRT had withstood more than 50 similar freezing rain events without any problems, Holder said.

The OCS is designed to withstand an ice accretion of 30 millimetres a day and up five millimetres per hour. The Jan. 4 storm approached that threshold, but the unusually warm evening, the high humidity level and the river fog compounded the problem near the Rideau River crossing between Lee and Hurdman stations, he said. No other areas of track were affected by that storm, he said.

It took four days for workers in bucket trucks to physically bash ice off a five-kilometre stretch of the power line. Once that was done, fixing the cable took just a few hours, he said.

The rest of the shutdown included the time it took to thoroughly test the system before reopening it to full service, he said.

To prevent it from happening again, OC Transpo is equipping all its trains with “winter carbons” — attachments that do a better job of scraping ice off the power line. It’s also dedicating staff to monitor the stretch of tracks between Hurdman and uOttawa stations to watch for problems and to more closely monitor the trains’ onboard diagnostics for “signs that the system is struggling,” he said.

It’s also looking at using anti-icing compounds on the OCS when freezing rain is predicted and installing sensors and cameras on the pantographs to detect icing problems. It’s also searching for a non-electric powered vehicle that can be used to tow stuck trains when electrical power on the line is lost.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...d-lrt-power-line-after-january-ice-storm



And in today's weather:

Quote:
School buses cancelled Thursday morning: fog advisory over, risk of black ice, freezing rain by afternoon; schools open

Megan Gillis, Ottawa Citizen
Published Feb 09, 2023 • 1 minute read


Freezing rain day just doesn’t have the same ring to it but school buses are cancelled in Ottawa Thursday with a pair of weather alerts in effect.

A freezing rain warning was issued with two to five millimetres of ice expected to build up starting Thursday afternoon and ending Thursday night.

Meanwhile, a dense fog advisory was liftedm as the weather office predicted, by mid-morning.

“Fog is expected to lift late this morning.”

Precipitation may start as snow or ice pellets Thursday afternoon before switching to freezing rain, the weather agency said.

“A prolonged period of freezing rain is expected for the Ottawa River Valley” before it turns to rain overnight, the weather agency said.

“Surfaces such as highways, roads, walkways and parking lots may become icy and slippery. Slow down driving in slippery conditions. Watch for taillights ahead and maintain a safe following distance. Be prepared to adjust your driving with changing road conditions.”

Both the Ottawa Student Transportation Authority and Consortium de transport scolaire d’Ottawa cancelled school buses in the capital due to bad weather.

Schools remain open but it’s up to parents to drop kids off and pick them up at bell time, Ottawa’s English and Catholic boards reminded.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-freezing-rain-by-afternoon-schools-open
     
     
  #16134  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 10:44 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day. <???>

one for the record books :::: IT WAS (wait for it )...... !!! ICE !!!

CTV News : https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/officials-blame-ottawa-lrt-shutdown-on-unique-ice-buildup-1.6267070



and at the end..... silly me thought we were supposed to have already gotten such vehicles - snow removal equipment, hustlers, yard pushers, etc........ Silly ME !!!
oh... yeah.... the hustlers got lost in cost optimizations long ago...... we use other trains as tow vehicles ! <snort>
and those snow brushers and ploughs that they had photos of on the Stage 1 website as the latest and greatest in winter line maint equip...... i guess they went by the board too . <snort>

<sigh>

yo jimmy.... that -not a Cadillac but a Chevrolet- comment...... umn.... a copper-plated (not gold-plated, somebody made a profit) Lada or Yugo or....????
I think this is comedy hour.

We aren't as prepared as Toronto?

Guess what? Ottawa's weather is worse than Toronto's. We get freezing rain more often. But, maybe our expert maintenance team is from Vancouver, or California or the Mediterranean and simply didn't understand our normal weather.

Looks outside at more freezing rain.
     
     
  #16135  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 11:03 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I think this is comedy hour.

We aren't as prepared as Toronto?

Guess what? Ottawa's weather is worse than Toronto's. We get freezing rain more often. But, maybe our expert maintenance team is from Vancouver, or California or the Mediterranean and simply didn't understand our normal weather.

Looks outside at more freezing rain.
Why does it feel like the city/contractors did not build a system for Canada? Who'd a thunk it? Ice? Naw.....
     
     
  #16136  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 11:11 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Just turned on the TV

"Freezing rain caught them by surprise"

Good grief
     
     
  #16137  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2023, 11:22 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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I think there's a mix of sloppy reporting and people not reading any of the details in the articles going on here.

During the presentation they emphasized that since the Confederation Line launched, there have been 50 freezing rain events, all of which did not affect the line. They weren't caught off guard so much by the freezing rain, as they were from the higher humidity of the non-frozen Rideau river below the Lees bridge causing ice to accumulate faster.

In addition, this one point from the Citizen: "To prevent it from happening again, OC Transpo is equipping all its trains with “winter carbons” — attachments that do a better job of scraping ice off the power line." isn't quite right. Many trains already had these "winter carbons", the change is that they're equipping all of the trains with them.

Failures? Yes. Completely unprepared and not expecting freezing rain in a city like this? No, obviously not.
     
     
  #16138  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2023, 1:19 AM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Good Day.

Oh, I read the details, with great interest. And, sloppy reporting - maybe, but I think the reporters are holding their tongues with great difficulty.
I think these statements are by far more a case of attempted self-justifying explanation of the unbearably obvious lack of anticipation, preparation, and execution of non-existent plans
to handle what is - for Ottawa - totally obvious and to-be-anticipated circumstance of bad weather conditions year-in-and-year-out, every year, every winter, every season.
Heavy snow. Heavy rain. Heavy ICE. This stuff is a no brainer. To not expect, let alone not anticipate, these events, well, verges on criminal.

And..... guess what folks..... Climate Change. This stuff can well be anticipated to get both worse per event, and more frequent.
The once-in-a-hundred is now once-in-ten, once-in-ten is now once-in-five, and less than once-in-ten is now very close to every-year. What was a force 2 is now a force 5. a 10 cm dump is now 50. And so on.

Those previous events of which they spoke - well, yeah, so......so what.

Sorry, but that is the performance that we should expect without it being even a whit remarkable or noteable.
That is some of the sarcasm that I think the reporters are holding back on.

I hope they (City, RTM) are paying attention to Hurdman-Rideau River lessons - the exposed stretches along the Ottawa River Parkway are going to be as bad or worse.
Your choice of berm or tunnel, it is a good thing it is 'buried' as much as it is there.

Dear jimmy - we needed that cadillac to survive what that chevrolet will no longer do. Even if it had been done right, it would have been pushed hard with what is coming.

<sigh>

Last edited by PHrenetic; Feb 10, 2023 at 1:30 AM.
     
     
  #16139  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2023, 4:15 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day.

Oh, I read the details, with great interest. And, sloppy reporting - maybe, but I think the reporters are holding their tongues with great difficulty.
I think these statements are by far more a case of attempted self-justifying explanation of the unbearably obvious lack of anticipation, preparation, and execution of non-existent plans
to handle what is - for Ottawa - totally obvious and to-be-anticipated circumstance of bad weather conditions year-in-and-year-out, every year, every winter, every season.
Heavy snow. Heavy rain. Heavy ICE. This stuff is a no brainer. To not expect, let alone not anticipate, these events, well, verges on criminal.

And..... guess what folks..... Climate Change. This stuff can well be anticipated to get both worse per event, and more frequent.
The once-in-a-hundred is now once-in-ten, once-in-ten is now once-in-five, and less than once-in-ten is now very close to every-year. What was a force 2 is now a force 5. a 10 cm dump is now 50. And so on.

Those previous events of which they spoke - well, yeah, so......so what.

Sorry, but that is the performance that we should expect without it being even a whit remarkable or noteable.
That is some of the sarcasm that I think the reporters are holding back on.

I hope they (City, RTM) are paying attention to Hurdman-Rideau River lessons - the exposed stretches along the Ottawa River Parkway are going to be as bad or worse.
Your choice of berm or tunnel, it is a good thing it is 'buried' as much as it is there.

Dear jimmy - we needed that cadillac to survive what that chevrolet will no longer do. Even if it had been done right, it would have been pushed hard with what is coming.

<sigh>
I will only give a year. From that year, all the BS about not being able to be prepared will be put to rest.

1998
     
     
  #16140  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2023, 5:42 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day.

Oh, I read the details, with great interest. And, sloppy reporting - maybe, but I think the reporters are holding their tongues with great difficulty.
I think these statements are by far more a case of attempted self-justifying explanation of the unbearably obvious lack of anticipation, preparation, and execution of non-existent plans
to handle what is - for Ottawa - totally obvious and to-be-anticipated circumstance of bad weather conditions year-in-and-year-out, every year, every winter, every season.
Heavy snow. Heavy rain. Heavy ICE. This stuff is a no brainer. To not expect, let alone not anticipate, these events, well, verges on criminal.

And..... guess what folks..... Climate Change. This stuff can well be anticipated to get both worse per event, and more frequent.
The once-in-a-hundred is now once-in-ten, once-in-ten is now once-in-five, and less than once-in-ten is now very close to every-year. What was a force 2 is now a force 5. a 10 cm dump is now 50. And so on.

Those previous events of which they spoke - well, yeah, so......so what.

Sorry, but that is the performance that we should expect without it being even a whit remarkable or noteable.
That is some of the sarcasm that I think the reporters are holding back on.

I hope they (City, RTM) are paying attention to Hurdman-Rideau River lessons - the exposed stretches along the Ottawa River Parkway are going to be as bad or worse.
Your choice of berm or tunnel, it is a good thing it is 'buried' as much as it is there.

Dear jimmy - we needed that cadillac to survive what that chevrolet will no longer do. Even if it had been done right, it would have been pushed hard with what is coming.

<sigh>
There is a reason why Montreal pulled up all there streetcars in 1959 and a few years later were building a 100% underground subway.

Both Ottawa and Montreal get more ice storms than probably any other cities in North America. We should have been better prepared.

We all know the old saying 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure'. It was reported that the repairs were made in hours but required days of testing. Nothing is perfect but we need to avoid this kind of thing whenever possible.

In this case, we have all heard of the adversarial relationship between the city and RTM. This cannot be helping in preventing problems. Hopefully, we are working towards a more collaborative relationship.
     
     
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