The Vancouver Business Thread

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

And this is why some members of the tech industry are concerned by the latest moves of the NDP government:


“Tech in Vancouver is booming,” said Ray Walia, CEO of the Launch Academy technology incubator in Gastown. “But it’s happening despite the government, not because of the government.”

“When you are looking at it from a global lens, international tech companies or even just an engineer sitting in Romania doesn’t know Victoria, doesn’t know the Okanagan,” Walia said. “That’s what we should really be focused on, is building the brand of Vancouver as a tech epicentre.”

Walia, who spent much of the last year travelling throughout Asia to tout Vancouver as a tech hub for international players, is also lamenting the shuttering of the province’s trade offices across the continent.

The province is folding them into embassies and consulates led by the federal government, but Walia said he’s lost many of his contacts in Asia as a result.

“International trade takes a hit because those were the touch points, those were the connections B.C. companies had in those markets to expand and grow,” he said. “I’ve got to build my relationships with those people all over again.”

Full article here: https://biv.com/article/2020/02/name-change-casts-doubt-bc-governments-tech-priorities

With Amazon, microsoft, mastercard, etc, coming to vancouver I have little concerns about Vancouver "building its tech brand". What does that even mean anyway? I suspect our proximity to Seattle and California and Trump making H1B visas a major headache have a bigger role to play than any trade office BC can operate.

Don't get me wrong, the province can do a lot of harm with misguided policy, but changing the name of a ministry is not one of them. I suspect that the province now has a limited role aside from unhip and messy matters, like housing and transit.

I certainly call BS on the claim regarding the trade offices. The whole initiative starting under Ben Stewart (who isn't in tech, but ran a winery) under the previous government seemed dodgy and many of the "success" stories didn't hold up to scrutiny. I see the need for outreach, but I am unsure we need separate offices with not so much oversight.

I'm no expert, but a major issue for (ahem) real, viable tech companies looking to invest in BC is visa issues, and pairing with embassy/consular help would be invaluable.

[zahav]

I agree that all levels of government should focus on the tech hubs right now and not divert attention to stupid ides like directing growth into small centres. Help small business across the province yes, there is a remarkable amount of small business and entrepenurship in small BC towns (and I'm sure across the country, but I'm focusing on BC here). But realize that the real support should be continuing to support Vancouver and make it grow even larger. It is Vancouver that is competing for talent and attracting big tech, not Kitimat, sorry. I really hope the BC government does understand that.

And as for not directing money to "already hot areas", that is off the mark. As people have said, this isn't an Amazon HQ-style competition where places were selling their souls (and opening the wallet wide open) for a chance to court them. This is a pretty small amount when considering federal budgets, and the overall private investment is huge. And it's not like they won't pay tax or decent wages. So the payoff is there, and if it gets things more heated, good, at least then we can keep pushing to build more and increase the stature of the City. Chasing this away would be the worst.

Lastly, sorry but the government shouldn't be directing money to "help" Calgary or Edmonton. They drastically overbuilt and were reliant too much on a single industry. The market will work itself out in terms of adjusting rents, and landlords or tenants who want to lease/sublease can adjust their rates as they see fit to attract companies. It's a free market. If the promise of cheap and abundant space was enough to entice tenants then it would have worked already, but the reality is there is not nearly as much interest in Calgary as they'd like to think, and that's why offices are being converted to apartments in the core. No one gave BC or Vancouver handouts when our economy was in the gutter for years in the 90s/2000s. Calgary was booming and attracting all types of companies like Safeway, CP, plus all the O&G expansion. Vancouver was starting to be nothing attractive to business, but we didn't get help or sympathy. Things change, that's what cities do, and some become more succesful and others don't, and then it can flip. So suggesting the federal government should've spent this money in Calgary doesn't fly with me

[SpongeG]

Vancouver, Calgary office markets: a tale of two cities

Calgary has 241 acres of empty offices downtown; Vancouver can’t meet demand
By Frank O'Brien | February 5, 2020


Lucas Beck, senior manager, leasing, for GWL Realty Advisors, uses an electric scooter to tour potential tenants
through an 80,758-square-foot space in downtown Calgary | GWL Realty Advisors

The core office markets in Canada’s two largest western cities represent the most startling contrast in the country.

There is four million square feet of new office space under construction in downtown Vancouver – the most in the city’s history – but it still does not keep
pace with what is also historic demand.

At 2.3%, Vancouver has among the lowest downtown office vacancy rates in North America, according to a recent CBRE report. Prime office space downtown
is leasing for more than $55 per square foot gross, the highest in Canada.

In Calgary, a downtown office-building boom peaked and collided with crashing oil prices six years ago. The result is Canada’s highest vacancy rate,
at 24.6%, nearly a third of it in massive spaces.

Calgary’s empty office space downtown covers 11.4 million square feet, equal to a ranch-sized 241 acres, with 72% of that in head leases and
the remaining 3.2 million square feet in sublease space that has been shoved back onto the market.

“Almost half the sublease space currently on the market is set to expire in the next five years,” according to a recent survey by Avison Young, Calgary.

Noting that the downtown office absorption went negative in 2019’s third quarter, Avison Young has calculated that if the current absorption rate continues,
Calgary’s central vacancy rate would still be in the 20% range four years from now.

Avison Young counted 13 office offerings in downtown Calgary at the end of 2019 with more than 100,000 square feet as one contiguous block.
These blocks of dark space represent 28% of the total offices vacant downtown.

Among these giants is the 80,758-square-foot fourth floor of the 20-storey Gulf Canada Square tower on 9th Avenue Southwest, a Class A building.

At 697 square feet in length, the empty space covers two city blocks downtown.

GWL Realty Advisors (GWLRA) manages Gulf Canada Square. A major oil-and-gas tenant had held the fourth floor, and it came back to GWL
through a lease renegotiation last year.

...

https://biv.com/article/2020/02/vancouve...IJpkGVvHVveJc--BJYwrXZIbOMmRo0n0QAj9N6EE

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by zahav

I agree that all levels of government should focus on the tech hubs right now and not divert attention to stupid ides like directing growth into small centres. Help small business across the province yes, there is a remarkable amount of small business and entrepenurship in small BC towns (and I'm sure across the country, but I'm focusing on BC here). But realize that the real support should be continuing to support Vancouver and make it grow even larger. It is Vancouver that is competing for talent and attracting big tech, not Kitimat, sorry. I really hope the BC government does understand that.

And as for not directing money to "already hot areas", that is off the mark. As people have said, this isn't an Amazon HQ-style competition where places were selling their souls (and opening the wallet wide open) for a chance to court them. This is a pretty small amount when considering federal budgets, and the overall private investment is huge. And it's not like they won't pay tax or decent wages. So the payoff is there, and if it gets things more heated, good, at least then we can keep pushing to build more and increase the stature of the City. Chasing this away would be the worst.

Lastly, sorry but the government shouldn't be directing money to "help" Calgary or Edmonton. They drastically overbuilt and were reliant too much on a single industry. The market will work itself out in terms of adjusting rents, and landlords or tenants who want to lease/sublease can adjust their rates as they see fit to attract companies. It's a free market. If the promise of cheap and abundant space was enough to entice tenants then it would have worked already, but the reality is there is not nearly as much interest in Calgary as they'd like to think, and that's why offices are being converted to apartments in the core. No one gave BC or Vancouver handouts when our economy was in the gutter for years in the 90s/2000s. Calgary was booming and attracting all types of companies like Safeway, CP, plus all the O&G expansion. Vancouver was starting to be nothing attractive to business, but we didn't get help or sympathy. Things change, that's what cities do, and some become more succesful and others don't, and then it can flip. So suggesting the federal government should've spent this money in Calgary doesn't fly with me

I can see it both ways - sooner or later, Canada needs a fourth metropolis, and BC needs a second. Can't just be "Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and all the inbetween" for the next fifty years.

Though it would help if Alberta would stop cancelling their tech tax credits...

[misher]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I can see it both ways - sooner or later, Canada needs a fourth metropolis, and BC needs a second. Can't just be "Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and all the inbetween" for the next fifty years.

Though it would help if Alberta would stop cancelling their tech tax credits...

Victoria, Ottawa or Montreal? Technically Vancouver isn’t even our capital.

Also Alberta may have scared off a few but it’s also attracting the general thanks to the tax cut. A general tax cut should be the best way to increase diversification.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I can see it both ways - sooner or later, Canada needs a fourth metropolis, and BC needs a second. Can't just be "Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and all the inbetween" for the next fifty years.

Though it would help if Alberta would stop cancelling their tech tax credits...

Where would be a good place to have a big metropolis in BC? I think Prince George and / or somewhere on Vancouver Island are possibilities.

It would also be good to have somewhere big in the Maritimes. Like Alberta they're pretty heavily dependant on a single industry (fishing) and could stand to diversify.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Where would be a good place to have a big metropolis in BC? I think Prince George and / or somewhere on Vancouver Island are possibilities.

It would also be good to have somewhere big in the Maritimes. Like Alberta they're pretty heavily dependant on a single industry (fishing) and could stand to diversify.

We’ve been pumping in cash to “diversify” the Maritimes for decades.

[GreaterMontréal]

Toronto (229k), Montréal (130k) and Vancouver (75k) are the only major tech hubs in Canada. That will probably never change in our lifetime. VC investments are concentrated mainly in these 3 city. Quebec City is the only other tech hub in the province. Ontario, Quebec and BC are in another league vs the other provinces regarding VC investments.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Where would be a good place to have a big metropolis in BC? I think Prince George and / or somewhere on Vancouver Island are possibilities.

It would also be good to have somewhere big in the Maritimes. Like Alberta they're pretty heavily dependant on a single industry (fishing) and could stand to diversify.

Have you ever been to PG? The city was laid out for many times more people than live there currently. There are suburban arterials with frontage roads for no reason.

That place has all the downsides of BC with none of the usual upsides.

[svlt]

It takes decades to scale up and grow a city to be a self sustaining metropolis especially for a less centralized government and more regional one as Canada. I mean some countries have artificially created capitals and moved offices there as a catalyst, but we don't really do that in Canada. Growth has been pretty organic and dictated by the free market.

Calgary or Ottawa will be Canada's fourth Metropolis in the far future, but we are still a long long way away from the Toronto Montreal Vancouver triopoly. In BC it's gotta be Victoria as the capital and it having a solid 200k more people than the next most populous metro (Kelowna). There won't be another city that will leapfrog it. But as an actual competitor for jobs and offices to Vancouver, I don't see it.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I can see it both ways - sooner or later, Canada needs a fourth metropolis, and BC needs a second. Can't just be "Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and all the inbetween" for the next fifty years.

Though it would help if Alberta would stop cancelling their tech tax credits...

If BC needs a second metropolis then I am totally putting my money on Kelowna becoming a metropolis leader in the Okanagan. Like I'm thinking that West Kelowna, Oosoyoos, and Vernon will eventually be considered Metro Kelowna like Burnaby and Surrey are. Kelowna has got the momentum for it right now and I think that it will outpace Victoria soon; we just need to give it a Skytrain and then we are all good to go .

Back to the topic on hand: I wouldn't necessarily rule out Calgary or Edmonton yet as the 4th Metropolis. I think that they are going through a rough time right now but they also have a strong "start up" culture that's being promoted throughout the youth.

But if any city was going to be that next big metropolis then I would honestly think that Hamilton has got the chops to make it happen. A lot of good things are happening there and they have easy access to major metropolitan centres around them.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Kinda funny (though true) how we automatically ignore Winnipeg in favour of Hamilton and the Maritimes.

Yeah, Victoria and Kelowna seem like the logical runner-ups. Though I wouldn't rule out Abbotsford getting big off the GVRD's table scraps...

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by scryer

Back to the topic on hand: I wouldn't necessarily rule out Calgary or Edmonton yet as the 4th Metropolis. I think that they are going through a rough time right now but they also have a strong "start up" culture that's being promoted throughout the youth.

"The youth" (in this case being people between 20 and 24) are leaving Calgary though.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

"The youth" (in this case being people between 20 and 24) are leaving Calgary though.

I stand corrected. Thank you for that!

[Tetsuo]

Had Alberta's growth been concentrated in one city rather than Calgary/Edmonton it would there would be a fourth metropolis.

I wonder though with Climate Change, how other parts of BC might develop. Kelowna? PG? Prince Rupert? Kitimat, Squamish?

PG mentioned is way overplanned and underbuilt, but it wasn't long ago (80s/90s???) where it had a bigger population than Victoria proper (right? may be wrong)

[zahav]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Where would be a good place to have a big metropolis in BC? I think Prince George and / or somewhere on Vancouver Island are possibilities.

It would also be good to have somewhere big in the Maritimes. Like Alberta they're pretty heavily dependant on a single industry (fishing) and could stand to diversify.

I wouldn't say the Maritimes are dependent on fishing anymore at all, the heyday of fishing is long gone and nowhere is dependent on it anymore. NL is energy dependent, PEI is tourism/agri/and other services, and NS and NB don't seem to have one main industry that I can think of, but it isn't fishing. They do have work to do to expand their economies nonetheless

[Migrant_Coconut]

Somehow, I don't see Halifax as #5. Or even #6.

[rofina]

Kelowna is going to win out in BC.

Great quality of life, room to grow. Proximity to Vancouver. Small, but active tech scene already. No reason for this trend to change.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by rofina

The implications are clear.

Local does not equal funded by the CCP. Really, that's all that matters.

Cut all ties with anything to do with CCP and Vancouver/Canada. Period.

Bentall and now Grouse are a good start.

Is anyone surprised? Allegations of fraud concerning China Minsheng Investment Group's purchase of Grouse Mtn. Is the "Vancouver-based co-investor" the guy our chief apologist poster was parading as a "local"?

‘Project Snowflake’: Fraud claim hits sale of Vancouver mountain involving troubled China investment giant CMIG, US$100m loans and a US$381,000 private jet flight from Shanghai
-The lawsuit claims a co-investor was a victim of ‘fraudulent misrepresentation’ that deprived him of a 30 per cent share of the Grouse Mountain ski resort
-He says he paid millions towards the 2017 deal in which China Minsheng Investment Group took a 40 per cent stake
Ian Young in Vancouver
Published: 6:05am, 15 Feb, 2020

A controversial deal to buy the ski mountain overlooking Vancouver that involved the cash-strapped Chinese investment giant CMIG has been hit with allegations of fraud in a lawsuit that purports to reveal details of the 2017 transaction, dubbed “Project Snowflake”.

Among other claims, it says two executives from China Minsheng Investment Group (CMIG) flew from Shanghai to Vancouver on a private jet chartered for US$381,000 to inspect the resort, in which CMIG took a 40 per cent stake.
It also depicts a complex web of transactions, supposedly involving a C$2 million (US$1.5 million) deposit paid on CMIG’s behalf but routed via the wife of a Vancouver-based co-investor.

The lawsuit’s claims are unproven. Lodged in the British Columbia Supreme Court on February 4, it seeks 30 per cent of the proceeds from the recent resale of the resort for an undisclosed amount. The original 2017 asking price for the iconic resort, whose floodlit slopes are visible across Vancouver at night, was C$200 million...

..The main target of the lawsuit is Kenny Zou, who fronted the 2017 purchase of the ski resort by CM (Canada) Asset Management and is a director of the firm. Zou, also known as Kang Yu Canning Zou, is accused of “fraudulent misrepresentation”.

Zou’s wife, Wei Dong, and various other companies of which Zou was a director, are also named as co-defendants, although CMIG is not...

..
Zou had told Canadian media in 2017 that CM (Canada) Asset Management was a “completely Canadian company through and through”, and that CMIG, although a 40 per cent shareholder, would be a “silent” investor in the running of Grouse Mountain.

But the president of CM Canada was Lawrence Liao Feng, who was also the CEO of CMIG International, the foreign investment arm of CMIG, the South China Morning Post revealed last year. Zou was CM Canada’s secretary. Both Zou and Liao were directors of the firm....

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/...fraud-claim-hits-sale-vancouver-mountain

[misher]

Interesting to see that only 5% in Vancouver is coming from outside NA and that’s including investment into apartments. 13.8% of Canada’s investment in a city that makes up 5% of Canada’s population is pretty significant.

Seems like most investment coming into Vancouver is from Toronto and America.

Private and institutional real estate investors flock to Vancouver

Vancouver saw approximately $6.3 billion in investment deals worth $5 million or more last year, according to Jones Lang LaSalle IP Inc., 13.4% of the $47 billion recorded across Canada. Most buyers were domiciled in Canada (75%) while just 5% came from outside North America.

https://biv.com/article/2020/03/private-and-institutional-real-estate-investors-flock-vancouver