Protests and their effects on Ottawa

[Marshsparrow]

The OPS has not been able to control the situation and cannot protect residents. Time to move to Plan B.

- declare an emergency;
- put protestors on notice;
- call in the RCMP;
- call in the military;
- set up a perimiter - no food, no gas;
- protestors and trucks are allowed to leave, no re-entry.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Silent Vigil Walk tomorrow at 5 pm (I received this from a distributed e-mail) Take it as you wish.

SILENT VIGIL WALK

In Support of MLK's 'Beloved Community'&
Against anti-Black Racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia,
Homophobia and Indigenous Injustice

For these last few days Ottawa has been invaded and held hostage. At first, those that could, retreated from the inconvenience of the vehicles. Then we saw the attitude and ignorance of their drivers and recoiled in disgust. It is now time, however, to come out, take back our streets and show what WE believe. PEACEFULLY.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph
Is for good people yto do nothing

This Thursday, Feb 3 at 5:00 PM

Commencing at the Human Rights Monument
On Elgin Street @ City Hall
and then walking, socially distanced and masked, on the sidewalk to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier for a moment of silent.

No speeches but, if you wish,

please bring appropriate signs, flags and banners

We Could Carry Flashlights as in a Vigil
Tape a small, empty plastic container to the light to disperse it

Vive Ensemble!

I’m surprised it has taken this long.

[BlueJay]

Can we not keep these discussions to Twitter and Facebook. This forum should be about Skyscraper topics, construction, development etc. leave the bullshit for the social media platforms. This used to be a great forum until users brought in politics, social issues, and hot chocolate reviews.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I wish police had been able to put an end to these disruptions a while ago. That being said, the notion that police are "siding" with these protestors, sharing photo ops with them, under-enforcing laws, or otherwise taking an approach that's any different to what they would've done had the protest been for indigenous rights, BLM, etc. is ridiculous. To me, it really points to a lot of internalized biases and selective memory recall that we are largely unaware of.

Having lived in downtown Ottawa for many years and having endured many protests, I'm going to draw some comparisons between police action (or inaction) during the current protest and previous ones, trying to be as objective as possible.

Many are accusing of police of taking photos with trucker convoy protesters (aka their "buddies"), something that wouldn't have otherwise happened if the protesters had been non-white. Recall the George Floyd / BLM protest of June 2020, when numerous photos were shared of police raising their fists or kneeling down in solidarity with protesters.

Another accusation of police is under-enforcement of laws against freedom protesters. However, the same BLM protest in question saw zero arrests made, apart from one lady who was arrested for assaulting a protester. "Well that's because BLM protesters were peaceful and the truckers are not". Well, not quite. Despite the actual BLM march being quite peaceful, many seem to forget the brief period of conflict which followed the official event, when a large number of people made their way over from the march's end-point, at the Canadian Tribute to Human Rights on Elgin, to the intersection of Rideau / Sussex. I had been cycling southbound on Mackenzie Ave. at the exact same time, and reached Rideau just in time to watch it unfold. On their way over, I remember seeing numerous protesters walk over-top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, drawing another parallel to the current protest. When they arrived at Rideau Sussex, a few began hurling plastic water bottles and other small projectiles at police. Luckily, a strong thunderstorm passed through the area shortly afterwards, and the crowd quickly dispersed.

"Well what about the indigenous / BLM protesters who were swiftly arrested in Nov 2020 for blocking the intersection of Laurier / Nicholas, while freedom protesters have been allowed to block intersections with no issues?" Again, not quite how it happened. The BLM protesters were allowed to block the intersection in question for three whole days, despite it not being part of the approved list of road closures agreed upon by police. The explanation for the arrests was that the intersection is part of an important emergency route (likely due to 417 access on Nicholas). The police blocked numerous other agreed upon roads / intersections for BLM protesters, and I have little doubt that police would have taken action against freedom protesters had they blocked emergency vehicles or emergency routes.

Finally, not an incident that happened in Ottawa, but the railroad blockades of early 2020 by indigenous protesters is another example of police inaction. Multiple days of blockades went unanswered by police while objects were placed on the tracks and, in certain instances, set on fire. A cancellation of my VIA train as a result of the blockades caused me to miss an important life event.

So, to summarize my rant, all protests can be annoying/disruptive. What dictates our level of tolerance is the degree to which we agree with the cause that protesters are supporting. Putting up with non-stop honking during the BLM protests of 2020 or pro-Palestine protests of 2021 was easier due to the fact that many of us felt they were supporting noble causes. This is also likely the reason we find it hard to recognize our biases when it comes to our perception of the relevant police response to those events (i.e. chastising police for arresting BLM protesters blocking an intersection vs. chastising police for not doing so to freedom protesters, despite different circumstances).

In my general experience living in Ottawa, police are very laissez-faire when it comes to dealing with protesters, for better or for worse.

So were people arrested as part of the BLM protests or not? Spoiler alert, people were arrested as you eventually noted and as of today, it's a higher number than those who've been arrested at the current trucker protest. I'm expecting that more arrests will come as part of the current protest (and there should be), but please don't equate BLM or whatever else with that's happening now. Putting up with honking from BLM or the Israel/Palestine protest in 2021 was easy because it happened for a negligible amount of time. I live(d) downtown too, I can't even remember honking or major disruptions on this scale and it has nothing to do with my politics. This protest is objectively worse than any past events you've mentioned and it's not close. By extension, I would expect more of a response from OPS but I understand this is much more explosive.

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

"Well what about the indigenous / BLM protesters who were swiftly arrested in Nov 2020 for blocking the intersection of Laurier / Nicholas, while freedom protesters have been allowed to block intersections with no issues?" Again, not quite how it happened. The BLM protesters were allowed to block the intersection in question for three whole days, despite it not being part of the approved list of road closures agreed upon by police. The explanation for the arrests was that the intersection is part of an important emergency route (likely due to 417 access on Nicholas). The police blocked numerous other agreed upon roads / intersections for BLM protesters, and I have little doubt that police would have taken action against freedom protesters had they blocked emergency vehicles or emergency routes.

Idk how you can call a 36 hour protest "three whole days" and pretend you're being as objective as possible.

So, to summarize my rant, all protests can be annoying/disruptive. What dictates our level of tolerance is the degree to which we agree with the cause that protesters are supporting. Putting up with non-stop honking during the BLM protests of 2020 or pro-Palestine protests of 2021 was easier due to the fact that many of us felt they were supporting noble causes. This is also likely the reason we find it hard to recognize our biases when it comes to our perception of the relevant police response to those events (i.e. chastising police for arresting BLM protesters blocking an intersection vs. chastising police for not doing so to freedom protesters, despite different circumstances).

What is objective about comparing honking from passenger vehicles (typically) on a singular day (during the day-time) to the endless honking from semi's and the train horn for five soon to be six days? There are a number of people who have left the core to stay with friends and families to avoid the endless noise something I have never seen in my life in Ottawa.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

FWIW:


https://twitter.com/bruceanderson/st...20099898056706

Sounds like a case for Twitter mods and also the police.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Compared to these mothertruckers, yes it was comparatively way more peaceful. Nobody had human excrement smeared over their property. No peaceful bystanders were attacked. Nobody got tinnitus. Nobody had their property vandalized because of their sexual orientation. No threats of violence against civilian population centres. No longlasting damage to infrastructure. The barricades were largely located outside of population centres. I'd choose that over this fresh hell.

Also the fact that this trucker protest is a bunch of crybaby snowflakes without a coherent set of policy demands. There's no equivalence between that and this.

I wasn't actually making a comparison.

Though there does seem to be an eagerness to minimize what happened during those train blockades.

Regardless of whether were worse or not as bad as what is going on in Ottawa right now.

[On Edge]

Time for citizens of Ottawa to take matters in their own hands, which might cause our police to finally act. Push back with whatever you have at hand, literally or figuratively. And be ready for a return of masses this weekend. And after this is over, call to account the city and the police. It was known for ages in advance that this was coming and what it was.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I wish police had been able to put an end to these disruptions a while ago. That being said, the notion that police are "siding" with these protestors, sharing photo ops with them, under-enforcing laws, or otherwise taking an approach that's any different to what they would've done had the protest been for indigenous rights, BLM, etc. is ridiculous. To me, it really points to a lot of internalized biases and selective memory recall that we are largely unaware of.

Having lived in downtown Ottawa for many years and having endured many protests, I'm going to draw some comparisons between police action (or inaction) during the current protest and previous ones, trying to be as objective as possible.

Many are accusing of police of taking photos with trucker convoy protesters (aka their "buddies"), something that wouldn't have otherwise happened if the protesters had been non-white. Recall the George Floyd / BLM protest of June 2020, when numerous photos were shared of police raising their fists or kneeling down in solidarity with protesters.

Another accusation of police is under-enforcement of laws against freedom protesters. However, the same BLM protest in question saw zero arrests made, apart from one lady who was arrested for assaulting a protester. "Well that's because BLM protesters were peaceful and the truckers are not". Well, not quite. Despite the actual BLM march being quite peaceful, many seem to forget the brief period of conflict which followed the official event, when a large number of people made their way over from the march's end-point, at the Canadian Tribute to Human Rights on Elgin, to the intersection of Rideau / Sussex. I had been cycling southbound on Mackenzie Ave. at the exact same time, and reached Rideau just in time to watch it unfold. On their way over, I remember seeing numerous protesters walk over-top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, drawing another parallel to the current protest. When they arrived at Rideau Sussex, a few began hurling plastic water bottles and other small projectiles at police. Luckily, a strong thunderstorm passed through the area shortly afterwards, and the crowd quickly dispersed.

"Well what about the indigenous / BLM protesters who were swiftly arrested in Nov 2020 for blocking the intersection of Laurier / Nicholas, while freedom protesters have been allowed to block intersections with no issues?" Again, not quite how it happened. The BLM protesters were allowed to block the intersection in question for three whole days, despite it not being part of the approved list of road closures agreed upon by police. The explanation for the arrests was that the intersection is part of an important emergency route (likely due to 417 access on Nicholas). The police blocked numerous other agreed upon roads / intersections for BLM protesters, and I have little doubt that police would have taken action against freedom protesters had they blocked emergency vehicles or emergency routes.

Finally, not an incident that happened in Ottawa, but the railroad blockades of early 2020 by indigenous protesters is another example of police inaction. Multiple days of blockades went unanswered by police while objects were placed on the tracks and, in certain instances, set on fire. A cancellation of my VIA train as a result of the blockades caused me to miss an important life event.

So, to summarize my rant, all protests can be annoying/disruptive. What dictates our level of tolerance is the degree to which we agree with the cause that protesters are supporting. Putting up with non-stop honking during the BLM protests of 2020 or pro-Palestine protests of 2021 was easier due to the fact that many of us felt they were supporting noble causes. This is also likely the reason we find it hard to recognize our biases when it comes to our perception of the relevant police response to those events (i.e. chastising police for arresting BLM protesters blocking an intersection vs. chastising police for not doing so to freedom protesters, despite different circumstances).

In my general experience living in Ottawa, police are very laissez-faire when it comes to dealing with protesters, for better or for worse.

Excellently and objectively put.

I think the thing we all should be able to agree on is that, regardless of the cause or whether one agrees with it or not, no one should be subjected to disruption for the sake of other's right to protest. Through our laws (nicely summarised at https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/safet...onstators.aspx) we as a society have agreed that there are limits to protest. Clearly these laws have not been respected by all sorts of people lately.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think in fact the interesting thing about this protest and maybe the only lasting impact it might have is increasing supports for limits on protests.

I hope you're right. The limits themselves are fine I think (quite simply, don't annoy people who aren't actually responsible for whatever it is you're protesting - politicians and Parliament are fair game, there's a huge lawn in front that's perfect for this) but the enforcement needs to be there. Ideally, protesters would learn that disruptions like these don't help their cause and turn people against them. Sadly it seems that they are looking more to "vent" or bully government to do what it wants than to actually convince their fellow citizens why change is needed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Excellently and objectively put.

I think the thing we all should be able to agree on is that, regardless of the cause or whether one agrees with it or not, no one should be subjected to disruption for the sake of other's right to protest. Through our laws (nicely summarised at https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/safet...onstators.aspx) we as a society have agreed that there are limits to protest. Clearly these laws have not been respected by all sorts of people lately.



I hope you're right. The limits themselves are fine I think (quite simply, don't annoy people who aren't actually responsible for whatever it is you're protesting - politicians and Parliament are fair game, there's a huge lawn in front that's perfect for this) but the enforcement needs to be there. Ideally, protesters would learn that disruptions like these don't help their cause and turn people against them. Sadly it seems that they are looking more to "vent" or bully government to do what it wants than to actually convince their fellow citizens why change is needed.

Then there is this view:

https://twitter.com/aoc/status/13341...758080?lang=fr

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Then there is this view:

https://twitter.com/aoc/status/13341...758080?lang=fr

Do you really think AOC is advocating for targeted harassment, racist provocations, and threats of violence when she says the “…point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable.”? Serious question.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

So were people arrested as part of the BLM protests or not? Spoiler alert, people were arrested as you eventually noted and as of today, it's a higher number than those who've been arrested at the current trucker protest. I'm expecting that more arrests will come as part of the current protest (and there should be), but please don't equate BLM or whatever else with that's happening now. Putting up with honking from BLM or the Israel/Palestine protest in 2021 was easy because it happened for a negligible amount of time. I live(d) downtown too, I can't even remember honking or major disruptions on this scale and it has nothing to do with my politics. This protest is objectively worse than any past events you've mentioned and it's not close. By extension, I would expect more of a response from OPS but I understand this is much more explosive.

BLM protest with no arrests (apart from one counterprotester) was the one held directly in response to the killing of George Floyd, in June 2020.

The arrest of 12 protesters blocking Laurier / Nicholas happened on a different occasion, in Nov 2020, and was a mix of protesters supporting various BLM / indigenous-related causes.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Do you really think AOC is advocating for targeted harassment, racist provocations, and threats of violence when she says the “…point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable.”? Serious question.

No, but by her explanation, non-stop honking should be acceptable. Which puts us in quite the predicament, because I highly doubt she supports “making people uncomfortable” in the context of the freedom convoy.

Just another example of what I mentioned earlier, about our tolerance for protests being dictated by our own degree of support for the cause(s) being supported.

[ponyboycurtis]

Not that I wish to brigade anyone... but I just went through a few reddit and twitter posts and copied every single CLEARLY legible truck photo and posted it to google company reviews and left a stern but sensible warning pointing out that at the moment, thousands of people are without work between the Rideau Center and the 3 big museums alone. I probably did 3 dozen companies in the span of a single tall can.

Seems like a good way to get active without putting yourself in harms way or adding to the cluster of downtown.

Which by the way, is somewhat barren aside from roaming bands of police services from other cities. Hamilton and Peel where two I saw in my quick sojourn earlier. They didn't take too kindly to me until I rattled off a couple of Barton st. and Ti-cats jokes in quick succession. The truck horns and motor revving and diesel fumes are still relentless as of this evening however.

PPS in front of the old train station were quite friendly and seemed kind of sheepish and up in arms to be honest. I appreciated how they seemingly felt boxed in.

*Edit*

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Seems pretty drastic. Didn't all that happen on Saturday was a bunch of people went in there without masks? (Correct me if I'm wrong).

That's a lot of people to leave unemployed just because you're scared of people being maskless.

If you weren't there Saturday it could be hard to understand. My friend works at Nordstrom and she more or less said people were just coming in and being obnoxious and passively aggressively being rude. Anecdotal, but I'm willing to take her word for it. Basically it sounded like the mall would have a hard time making money.. all the normal folks would have the sense to stay away so aside from the LCBO and Timmies there wouldn't be much going on in the way of sales... these people aren't here to buy a blouse... Maybe we should have set up some kiosks selling snowmobile and hi-vis gear?

Keep in mind.. driving and parking at Rideau is a massive headache ... and bus service is also re-routed.

*double edit...

I was there on Saturday and it was COMPLETE fucking chaos inside the mall and out. I've never seen it like that ever in my entire Ottawa existence.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

Idk how you can call a 36 hour protest "three whole days" and pretend you're being as objective as possible.

When I said “3 whole days” I admit it was a bit of an exaggeration, but I was going off an article which stated that police moved in to make arrests on the third day of the blockade.

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

What is objective about comparing honking from passenger vehicles (typically) on a singular day (during the day-time) to the endless honking from semi's and the train horn for five soon to be six days? There are a number of people who have left the core to stay with friends and families to avoid the endless noise something I have never seen in my life in Ottawa.

This is where things get murky, because the level of annoyance is all subjective. Undoubtedly, the freedom convoy has been much louder and much more persistent than either of the BLM or pro-Palestine protests I compared it to. But who is to say honking from passenger vehicles is more acceptable than truck horns, or that one or two days is ok, but five or six isn't? The point is, there is no definitive rule in place as to when a protest crosses the line from "acceptable" to "nuisance".

Regardless, the whole purpose of my post was mainly to point out some of the biases in the opinions of those who are comparing the police response towards the freedom convoy and past protests.

I firmly believe the notion that police are consciously supporting the freedom convoy, or otherwise turning a blind eye towards them, is complete BS. If anything, the bigger reason for the inaction thus far is the threatening and volatile nature of these protesters, especially when you consider events like Jan 6th and the fact that there is evidence that US-based groups are supporting the freedom convoy by way of funding and weaponry. As much as we like to call our cops in Canada over-militarized, they really are not suited to deal with threats on a scale like this.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are we setting ourselves up for escalating protests in Ottawa in the future? Now that this protest has succeeded in causing tremendous disruption, why not more on every contentious issue?

I am expecting that protests will scuttle Canada Day celebrations again this year. Count on it.

Downtown Ottawa will increasingly be for disgruntled protest groups, rather than the residents of Ottawa and the majority of citizens of Canada.

Very true. This occupation sets a precedent. Every group that has an axe to grind has seen that they can illegally block our streets whenever they want to.They can even make money from doing so via gofunding campaigns.

This weekend more ocuppiers are expected to arrive. Eventually there will probably be counter protests. That could lead to violence. Ottawans do not need that.

Here is a petition asking the OPS to remove the protesters now before things escalate again.

https://www.change.org/p/ottawa-poli...eedom-convoy/f

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Very true. This occupation sets a precedence. Every group that has an axe to grind has seen that they can illegally block our streets whenever they want to.They can even make money from doing so via gofunding campaigns.

This weekend more ocuppiers are expected to arrive. Eventually there will probably be counter protests. That could lead to violence. Ottawans do not need that.

Here is a petition asking the OPS to remove the protesters now before things escalate again.

https://www.change.org/p/ottawa-poli...eedom-convoy/f

There have been rumblings on social media about counter-protests in recent hours.

Somewhat ironically there actually was a bill before Parliament after the railway blockades that would have placed some parameters on protests but it never got anywhere.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

Do you really think AOC is advocating for targeted harassment, racist provocations, and threats of violence when she says the “…point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable.”? Serious question.

She was extremely timid when it came to the unrest that accompanied the BLM protests in the US, and appears to be more of a "means justifies the end" type of person.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ocas...ce-riot-2019-7

Though sure I suppose she didn't have conservative-leaning Canadian truckers in mind when said that.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

The OPS has not been able to control the situation and cannot protect residents. Time to move to Plan B.

- declare an emergency;
- put protestors on notice;
- call in the RCMP;
- call in the military;
- set up a perimiter - no food, no gas;
- protestors and trucks are allowed to leave, no re-entry.

Agreed that the City of Ottawa should declare an emergency.It would allow the City to ask for more help from higher governments. The province should send us a couple of hundred more OPP officers to deal with the situation and help the OPS.

I see photos of people delivering diesel and gasoline to the illegally parked trucks,sometimes in wheelbarrows .Do they know how to handle it safely? Are they using only DOT approved fuel containers? Is anyone checking? An accident, a spark, and we have a major fire on our hands.

[Truenorth00]

Protest or not, it's business as usual for Ottawa's parking enforcement
Ottawa bylaw officers have doled out 2,164 tickets since the protest began on Jan. 28, but just 115 on tractor trailers and other vehicles parked on roads within the protest perimeter.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...93ca33c25/amp/

This is the shit that really pisses people off.