Hamilton's B-Line LRT construction

[davidcapizzano]

Coming from the Metro Vancouver context, where there would be a fully-staffed, full-time project office with a dedicated website, often a physical storefront public-facing project office, and active social media presence for a new funded line of this magnitude, it's just sort of bizarre how for the Hamilton LRT there's basically a zoomed out map, a press release, a video about right of way utility relocation, and a message from the former Mayor, and that's it.

It's going to be in the Royal Connaught facing King St, but I don't know exactly what the opening date is yet.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

As a relatively new Hamiltonian

Welcome to Hamilton! I spent a few summers out in Vancouver staying with family in the late 80's man I miss that place!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

As a relatively new Hamiltonian, I'm confused at how there is so little current information about the LRT project. Moreover, I'm equally confused at how so much out of date information is still presented on the official City project website without disclaimers or commentary. E.g. the detailed system CAD mapping of a previous iteration of the line that included the spur up James Street North is still presented as 'detailed' mapping as part of the records and documents section of the website. Likewise, the Metrolinx/Gov of ON webpages have seemingly purged the 2020 business case report upon which the approved project is based.

Coming from the Metro Vancouver context, where there would be a fully-staffed, full-time project office with a dedicated website, often a physical storefront public-facing project office, and active social media presence for a new funded line of this magnitude, it's just sort of bizarre how for the Hamilton LRT there's basically a zoomed out map, a press release, a video about right of way utility relocation, and a message from the former Mayor, and that's it.

So, what I was looking for was a detailed map (an updated version of the Public Information Centre 2: https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/defaul...c2-mapping.pdf) for the approved project.

Welcome to the city!

We used to have a city-staffed project office. When our PC government killed the project, it dissolved. And since LRT was shot down before any bids came in, that earlier material was already out of date in 2019 when it was cancelled.

Since the announced federal-provincial funding to reboot the project, it's very much a do-over. I expect previous project bidders may just dust off most of their old proposals and update to reflect current realities (and budget) but until this is tendered I doubt we'll see much more info than there is now. The pandemic sure didn't help things like this either.

The city is probably a bit gun-shy as well. Announced promises have a tendency to change.

[TheHonestMaple]

I've been noticing some survey crews out on King Street lately, near Victoria Park. Wonder if that has anything to do with the LRT.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I've been noticing some survey crews out on King Street lately, near Victoria Park. Wonder if that has anything to do with the LRT.

Could be. I wonder if it could also be related to a property around there? (e.g., that little plaza with the health-care services between Locke and Margaret looks like it could be ripe for a redevelopment)

I don't think we'll see much survey work until the project is awarded. Anyone know when procurement will be launched? (for the second time) It will probably have to be fairly soon if the idea of starting major work in 2024 is to become a reality.

[TheRitsman]

I've seen both councillor Mann and Wilson mention they are doing early works surveying. The city will begin moving utilities before and during the final tender awarding.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I've seen both councillor Mann and Wilson mention they are doing early works surveying. The city will begin moving utilities before and during the final tender awarding.

Good!

Hopefully the rug isn't pulled out from under the city a second time.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Could be. I wonder if it could also be related to a property around there? (e.g., that little plaza with the health-care services between Locke and Margaret looks like it could be ripe for a redevelopment)

I don't think we'll see much survey work until the project is awarded. Anyone know when procurement will be launched? (for the second time) It will probably have to be fairly soon if the idea of starting major work in 2024 is to become a reality.

I can picture it now ..... "Parkside Condos" or "Park Place Condos"

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I can picture it now ..... "Parkside Condos" or "Park Place Condos"

"The Victoria"

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

"The Victoria"

That's perfect "The Victoria - Elegant living from the 600's"

[TheHonestMaple]

More surveying crews on King Street today, near Hess.

[SteelTown]

Metrolinx restarts LRT demolitions and land deals for long-delayed transit project
Provincial transit agency knocking down apartment this month and approaching more landowners about selling other buildings in the way of the 14-kilometre light-rail line

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...emolition.html

Metrolinx has started knocking down more buildings — and knocking on doors to buy more land — for Hamilton’s off-again, on-again light-rail transit line.

The planned Main-King corridor LRT was infamously cancelled over budget woes in 2019, but resurrected in May 2021 thanks to a $3.4-billion funding partnership between the province and federal government — both of which praised it as a “shovel-ready” project.

News about progress on the 14-kilometre line has been relatively sparse since, with the provincial transit agency so far only willing to say major construction is not expected before 2024. A “request for qualifications” for bidders expected last year has yet to go ahead and a city pitch to use excess project land for affordable housing remains up in the air.

But behind the scenes, the agency has restarted efforts to buy up to 30 more buildings needed to make room for the project, said Shane Rayman, a lawyer specializing in expropriation law who has clients on the LRT route. Metrolinx previously spent $80 million buying 60 properties for the first iteration of the project.

“They are reaching out again … (but) they are slow-playing it,” said Rayman, who is also representing a city workers’ union, CUPE 5167, in a $2.5-million lawsuit against Metrolinx over a failed project land negotiation along the route dating back to 2017.

Visible work is happening, too.

On the weekend, demolition crews starting tearing down one of the biggest buildings in the way of the train: a three-storey brick apartment building at the corner of Holton and King streets.

A notice to residents from ward councillor Nrinder Nann said the demolition should be done by the end of the month. One section of the King Street East sidewalk will be off-limits during construction.

That 20-plus unit apartment was among the earliest to have been emptied of tenants in 2018. It was also briefly eyed by advocates as a building that could be resurrected for emergency housing after the project was briefly cancelled in 2019.

City officials redirected project update questions Monday to Metrolinx, which said via email more information about a public project office and the procurement process will become available in the coming months.

More information may be available March 31, when the new council holds its first LRT subcommittee meeting.

[Corktowner]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

News about progress on the 14-kilometre line has been relatively sparse since, with the provincial transit agency so far only willing to say major construction is not expected before 2024. A “request for qualifications” for bidders expected last year has yet to go ahead and a city pitch to use excess project land for affordable housing remains up in the air.

…

City officials redirected project update questions Monday to Metrolinx, which said via email more information about a public project office and the procurement process will become available in the coming months.

None of this inspires much confidence. I really wonder what's going and what kind of timeline we should expect.

[PaperSun]

Originally Posted by Corktowner

None of this inspires much confidence. I really wonder what's going and what kind of timeline we should expect.

The article says Metrolinx is trying to acquire more property along King St which really shocks me. Hamilton LRT was hailed as the only shovels ready project in Ontario during Covid which would boost the economy.

But now we find out more land is required which in turn will require revisions to the drawings. I don't think we will see LRT for 20 years.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by PaperSun

The article says Metrolinx is trying to acquire more property along King St which really shocks me. Hamilton LRT was hailed as the only shovels ready project in Ontario during Covid which would boost the economy.

But now we find out more land is required which in turn will require revisions to the drawings. I don't think we will see LRT for 20 years.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. A project can be shovel ready while the procurement process isn't yet finished. The purchase shouldn't take more than 12 months, and by then the formal proposal will be complete. No new drawings will be needed for these purchases because the engineering documents haven't been completed yet by the firm that will be designing the LRT.

Once a firm is chosen (or multiple) we will see updated true engineering documents, new renders, and consultation will start for the completed design. Shovels will likely be in the ground by 2024 and ramping up in 2025 based on my conversations with some involved with the project.

[Innsertnamehere]

Metrolinx hadn't acquired all the property yet when it went off the deep end in 2019, so they are resuming.

The timeline has slipped a bit since it was first refunded, but my understanding is that it's moving right along about as fast as it can. My understanding is they are hoping to get utility relocations underway by the end of this year with construction beginning late next yearish.

Given the scale of the project, I expect a 5-6 year construction period, so completion likely 2029 to 2031ish. The most critical work is the railway underpass in the Delta, the overpass over the 403, and the rail yard / Longwood Rd bridge replacement. Those will be the first to start in 2024 / 2025 with most of the road work happening likely in 2026 through 2028, if I had to guess.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by PaperSun

The article says Metrolinx is trying to acquire more property along King St which really shocks me. Hamilton LRT was hailed as the only shovels ready project in Ontario during Covid which would boost the economy.

But now we find out more land is required which in turn will require revisions to the drawings. I don't think we will see LRT for 20 years.

I think it's more that they stopped buying when Ford cancelled the project. And now need them again to move ahead. So the agency is "buying more" but many were probably anticipated from the beginning, hence the reference to their "restarted efforts to buy up to 30 more buildings..."

The slowness seems to be more about the tendering process now. And maybe that's due to Metrolinx being so busy, but also the construction industry having a hard time keeping up with all the demand and unable to respond to these procurements fast enough; Mx knowing this may have cooled their plans a bit to compensate, as it makes more sense to have more competing bids. Could also be PC political games -- this is not a "Ford legacy" project, though I'm sure he'll be telling "folks" all about how his government made it happen.

[PaperSun]

Thank you for the clarification, I was under the impression all land was acquired already but that was wrong.

[Corktowner]

I don't see how construction can possibly start in 2024 if they haven't issued the RFQ yet. Just look at the timelines on some other Metrolinx LRT projects…

Hurontario:
Oct 2016: RFQ
Aug 2017: RFP
Oct 2019: winning bidder announced

Finch:
Sep 2015: RFQ
Feb 2016: RFP
Apr 2018: winning bidder announced

If we're looking at a similar timeline here, it'll be 2026 before they even award the contract!

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Corktowner

I don't see how construction can possibly start in 2024 if they haven't issued the RFQ yet. Just look at the timelines on some other Metrolinx LRT projects…

Hurontario:
Oct 2016: RFQ
Aug 2017: RFP
Oct 2019: winning bidder announced

Finch:
Sep 2015: RFQ
Feb 2016: RFP
Apr 2018: winning bidder announced

If we're looking at a similar timeline here, it'll be 2026 before they even award the contract!

I ask some people who know more about this a couple weeks ago, and this is what they said:

"Well it depends. Procurement isn't really as standardized as the chart would have you think.

E.g sometimes the government only has a faint idea of what they want done, and there's a years long process for the private sector to pitch ideas and draw up plans. But if the government already has a good idea of what they want and just need someone to build it, you can absolutely do that in 9 months."