Planning underway for new commuter ferry between Bedford and Halifax - Page 8

Saul Goode · #**141** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 7:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

It's hard to imagine this council ever championing something like LRT when they can't handle follow-through with a ferry or a basic stadium suitable for a city 1/4 the size.

I've pondered that for years; no, decades. Can anyone name another city of a half million anywhere that doesn't have a functional stadium of a respectable size?

someone123 · #**142** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 10:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I've pondered that for years; no, decades. Can anyone name another city of a half million anywhere that doesn't have a functional stadium of a respectable size?

I think about this and the more I do, the worse it seems to me.

I think that the process is often not very democratic and the goalposts are subtly moved depending on how much people like different projects. You will see negative coverage about how a poll on using public money for a stadium is sometimes below 50% in Halifax. But when is that bar applied to other recreation projects like a new skating rink or library for Bedford or Clayton Park? Did the new central library consistently poll above 50% around HRM?

There is also a technocratic angle where it's always easy to demand studies, the cost and delays are treated as immaterial, and the public will doesn't seem to matter as long as you can construct some metric that shows negative cost-benefit (sometimes for the project you don't want, and you never to the cost-benefit analysis for the project you do want). Sometimes people want what they want; they don't want only the most cost-effective and utilitarian things as defined by incomplete metrics. I think bus vs. train is often affected by this. People want the trains, people can afford the trains, but they are told they can't have them because buses are cheaper. Just think of how miserable everyone would be if every aspect of their private life were managed in this way. For some reason this bean counter mentality and political misdirection game has become dominant in the public sphere.

Drybrain · #**143** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I've pondered that for years; no, decades. Can anyone name another city of a half million anywhere that doesn't have a functional stadium of a respectable size?

I believe Scotiabank Centre is larger than its equivalents in London or KWC, but the overall point is definitely valid.

My wife was at some building-industry event downtown this morning where Andy Fillmore was interviewed, and apparently he actually talked quite a bit about the urgency to get rapid transit happening, get cars off the streets, and described how he doesn’t want to kill the Mill Cove ferry but find a cheaper option (some kind of rapid hybrid diesel-electric ferry) and also push for more BRT funding. Also talked about who he “couldn’t sleep last night” because he had some kind of meeting over the future of the casino site and thinks it can become some kind of landmark civic site, rather than just sold off for cash.

I’m frustrated by the nickel and diming mentality, and the often extraordinarily incremental pace of civic improvement. I am cautiously encouraged though by those kinds of comments (and I’m not a Fillmore fan).

someone123 · #**144** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 11:23 PM**

It all seems a bit questionable since there's such a great federal cost-sharing agreement in place, part of the point of fed involvement was climate goals, and a shift to hybrid or diesel presumably will tend to shift away from fed-subsidized capital costs onto more municipally-supported operating costs. Maybe they feel that the money from the feds is zero sum and you can cancel your Trudeau-era climate funding then put it someplace else of your choosing but I don't think that's true. It's strange that some articles present this as a "mega project"; $40M from the municipality is not a large capital expense. HRM will eventually need on the order of a billion-dollar transit project.

Transit aside it does seem like it's time for the city to think about some kind of new or improved civic institution, like an art gallery or museum. I'm not sure there's been much new since the library, and it opened around a decade ago and before the big growth spurt.

The casino is another opportunity for a multimodal downtown transit terminal, though it's somewhat worse now than it would have been before rebuilding Cogswell.

someone123 · #**145** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 11:32 PM**

It really seems like HRM council often has a zero sum mindset and not an economic development mindset. This must hurt the city in the long run. For example they should want something like a CFL team in the city as it will tend to increase economic activity. Instead the councillors seem to view their cash as a fixed bag of goodies to hand out.

I don't know the answer for the ferry but generally a large goal should be to try to maximize investment and leverage cost-sharing with the province and feds, and that doesn't seem to be the mentality of council. Constantly sending projects back to the drawing board and rehashing them results in worse infrastructure in the long run, not better infrastructure.

Drybrain · #**146** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 11:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Transit aside it does seem like it's time for the city to think about some kind of new or improved civic institution, like an art gallery or museum. I'm not sure there's been much new since the library, and it opened around a decade ago and before the big growth spurt.

The fact that we haven’t done a major public building since the library feels like an indictment of our overall municipal ambition. Queens Marque was a significant architectural achievement and public space improvement, but it was a wholly private endeavour so I’m not counting it—publicly spearheaded projects have been small in scale since the library. The AGNS rebuild would have been huge, but alas, I expect it’s a non-starter at least until the next government and probably longer.

someone123 · #**147** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 11:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The fact that we haven’t done a major public building since the library feels like an indictment of our overall municipal ambition. Queens Marque was a significant architectural achievement and public space improvement, but it was a wholly private endeavour so I’m not counting it—publicly spearheaded projects have been small in scale since the library. The AGNS rebuild would have been huge, but alas, I expect it’s a non-starter at least until the next government and probably longer.

My impression is that in Halifax the private sector is often quite good at working with what they have to work with (high taxes, red tape, etc.), while the public sector underperforms.

Keith P. · #**148** Posted **Jan 29, 2026, 11:41 PM**

HRM is a strange case. Over a fairly short period of years they went from an organization that did most things in an unimpressive, cheap and cheerful sort of way to one that pivoted to spending lots of money on grand plans. I suppose that began with the library and has only continued since. Now they don’t seem to do much of anything with regard to economy. The bike lanes are just one example, becoming increasingly grandiose and expensive with no appreciable take up on usage that anyone can see, to spending tons of time and money consulting, taking input from special interests, hiring consulting firms, and coming out the other end with hugely expensive projects that always seem to blow the original budget by several times. But those pale in comparison to projects like the ferries. One can only imagine what a stadium project would have ended up costing. We already see how a project like the Forum, which if I recall started life as a long-overdue demo of the existing facilities and replacement with a variation of their 4-pad ice facilities (with less than 4 pads IIRC) to a replica version of the Forum, I think at the behest of the area councillor at the time, at an 8 figure price tag for two rinks. No wonder they now find themselves in a budget crunch. The days of metal frame, sheetmetal-clad municipal rinks are long past for sure.

someone123 · #**149** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 12:02 AM**

I guess I think of that as unambitious but expensive and suffering from a lack of focus on what's important.

The stadium plans seem to suffer from this. A lot of people want a venue in which the CFL could play (requirements: field plus, seats, washrooms, etc.) but this somehow morphed into a $100M+ plan for that triangle of land on the Commons which may include revamped lawn bowling and a conservatory as well as horses and various parking facilities. To me it seems there's nothing much on that land around the Wanderers except for now the new parking garage that was built, and the horse stuff may not be the best use of central public land. The footprint is about the same as Hamilton's stadium, which is probably a bit more than Halifax needs to start. It hosts Hamilton's CFL team and soccer team.

The Garrison Grounds are also somewhat redundant.

It's presented as some big conundrum but it's only so because of a bunch of artificial constraints.

OldDartmouthMark · #**150** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 5:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

We already see how a project like the Forum, which if I recall started life as a long-overdue demo of the existing facilities and replacement with a variation of their 4-pad ice facilities (with less than 4 pads IIRC) to a replica version of the Forum, I think at the behest of the area councillor at the time, at an 8 figure price tag for two rinks. No wonder they now find themselves in a budget crunch. The days of metal frame, sheetmetal-clad municipal rinks are long past for sure.

Do we even know what's going on with the Forum now? I haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

Frankly, though, I think the idea of replacing the Forum building, which is as much of a landmark as a functioning civic centre, entertainment venue, and ice surface, with a generic 4-pad arena which is fine in Burnside, would be a downgrade for the North End. It's this kind of penny-pinching minimalist thinking (with all due respect), that keeps us from actually growing as a city in ways that can't be measured in mere population numbers.

OldDartmouthMark · #**151** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 5:10 AM**

Here's where the ferry debate leaves me slack-jawed. Per q12's post previously:

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

The federal government is investing $155.7 million in the project, while the province is contributing $65 million. Halifax Regional Municipality will also pitch in more than $38 million. Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/10333107/bedford-ferry-halifax-transit/

This is a $258.7 million project that will use a right of way that is not being utilized at all, so it won't take away from BRT or other road traffic along the Bedford Highway and all the way to DT Halifax, and the city gets it for $38 million, or a little more than half of what they are going to spend to finish the bike network. The deal of the century, yet we're nickel and diming it. Like a stadium, it would add something more than the pure utility of the system, it would actually make the city feel like it's a nicer place to live.

Everything else has already been said, and I acknowledge all of the points made in the posts above. I am really puzzled by it. On one hand we want the city to grow and be more functional, but on the other hand we don't want to spend any money or actually do anything to facilitate it.

Drybrain · #**152** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 1:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Do we even know what's going on with the Forum now? I haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

Frankly, though, I think the idea of replacing the Forum building, which is as much of a landmark as a functioning civic centre, entertainment venue, and ice surface, with a generic 4-pad arena which is fine in Burnside, would be a downgrade for the North End. It's this kind of penny-pinching minimalist thinking (with all due respect), that keeps us from actually growing as a city in ways that can't be measured in mere population numbers.

Yes. There's a difference between being fiscally responsible and being cheap.

I've done something I don't normally do, which is email the mayor and council about this and the ferry (with some support for bike lanes). I know councillors hear from constituents who complain about tax increases all the time; I hope they get an earful about this, however. The city can't spend money on every pipe dream. But rapid transit and the Forum are not, as Fillmore likes to say "nice-to-haves." The first is increasingly a non-negotiable, and the second is something that really can't be kicked down the road any further, given the state of the existing facility.

Keith P. · #**153** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 1:59 PM**

IIRC the original estimate for replacement of the Forum was $50 million however many years ago that was. Then the whataboutisms started: what about creating a green space instead of the parking lot (I don't think that ever went away despite being a bad idea to build no parking into a facility like that which had the room), what about an exhibition hall, what about a community facility for flea markets, what about multiple ice surfaces, what about recreating the exact architecture of the old building, etc etc. There was no point in even making a cost estimate since the target was always moving. This seems to be how HRM does most projects.

MastClimberPro · #**154** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 2:55 PM**

I'm just going to put this here so everyone can swat it around: Would it be a terrible idea to build a stadium on top of an intermodal transit node? And yes I'm aware that if this were pursued we'd run the risk of interlocking penny pinching and risk aversion agendas. (Don't worry; I can take some abuse if this is either crazy or stupid.)

Drybrain · #**155** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 3:57 PM**

Council voted today not to move forward with Morse's motion on the ferry, so as far as I can tell it's proceeding.

OldDartmouthMark · #**156** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Council voted today not to move forward with Morse's motion on the ferry, so as far as I can tell it's proceeding.

Cautiously optimistic. Thanks for the update.

someone123 · #**157** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is a $258.7 million project that will use a right of way that is not being utilized at all, so it won't take away from BRT or other road traffic along the Bedford Highway and all the way to DT Halifax, and the city gets it for $38 million, or a little more than half of what they are going to spend to finish the bike network. The deal of the century, yet we're nickel and diming it. Like a stadium, it would add something more than the pure utility of the system, it would actually make the city feel like it's a nicer place to live.

I think it's been said already but the Bedford Highway isn't BRT ready. Widening it would likely be difficult and could also take years and cost into the hundreds of millions, with no guarantee of comparable fed spending. Commuter rail would be nice but negotiations with CN have failed many times. Furthermore the train is complementary to the ferry, not an either/or; they don't serve the same routes. You can imagine somebody doing park-and-ride to the train in Wellington then ferry downtown, or somebody else taking the train from Mill Cove to Rockingham or Mumford or by Dal.

One thing that annoys me is the idea that these are "mega projects" or make-or-break municipal investments and the city needs to make sure it's picked the perfect one before it moves forward. These aren't projects of that scale and the transport network likely will need a lot of different modes.

Saul Goode · #**158** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I believe Scotiabank Centre is larger than its equivalents in London or KWC, but the overall point is definitely valid.

I was talking about a stadium, not an arena, but it's true that London is a city of comparable size without a stadium, other than the small one at Western. London's a bit of an odd place, though; it suffers a bit from its proximity to Toronto.

someone123 · #**159** Posted **Jan 30, 2026, 10:41 PM**

According to this CTV article, the vote failed 10-4:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/nova-sco...-concerns-from-some-halifax-councillors/

This was a vote to direct staff to brief council on options to change the scope of the project or cancel it, not a vote to cancel the project.

OldDartmouthMark · #**160** Posted **Jan 31, 2026, 5:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

According to this CTV article, the vote failed 10-4:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/nova-sco...-concerns-from-some-halifax-councillors/

This was a vote to direct staff to brief council on options to change the scope of the project or cancel it, not a vote to cancel the project.

So not a “sky is falling” moment but concerning that it was brought forth as a possibility. 10-4 is comforting in that the overwhelming majority can understand that this needs to be done. So hopefully we will see ferries running out of Mill Cove within the next decade or so.

And hopefully there will be other projects that happen concurrently. I suspect that they are able to juggle more than one project at a time, but we’ll see.