Future Transit System Ideas - Ottawa/Gatineau | Fantasy

[McC]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It would indeed connect with the E-W Bayview station, but it's just that the current placement of the station prohibits a turn north or south.

So four lines from the West would all interline in the one tunnel? (Bayshore, Baseline, "C"-Tram and "O-Train"?). That would really hurt frequencies to each branch. If your line is a Tram, why not just run it (and your converted O-Train) on the surface using Albert-Slater? We already have the EA and detailed designs for it, and it would no longer have to interface with all the buses the way the old NS-plan did.

If we were really really clever, we could build in junctions so that in exceptional case of repairs/accidents/protests etc., trains could detour from the tunnel on to the surface when the tunnel needs to be closed (could even do it for night operations), or surface trains could detour into the tunnel with reduced frequency if the surface was blocked. Extra redundancy building extra resilience into the system.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

A Downtown Line would permit a more efficient use of resources on both sides of the river: instead of having too many trains leaving low-density Orleans and Bayshore yet too few Downtown for reliable service in the dense core, a Downtown line would give a lot more flexibility for having high frequencies throughout the day.
It also solves the problem of split frequency that would occur if trains leaving for the Plateau or Aylmer only left one terminus half the time.

The Bayshore area is not low density.

[Aylmer]

Sure - Albert and Slater would be fine (though speed and reliability take a hit). But as much as an Interprovincial line would be a challenge, I think that building that much infrastructure in another city would be a nightmare when it comes to who uses/operates/maintains it.

However, I don't see frequency as being an enormous problem: trains every 90 seconds (though LRT can operate at up to 40 second headways, as demonstrated by Calgary, but it becomes tricky) means that all four lines would have a capacity of up to 6000pphpd at or 15 000 commuters per rush-hour per line.

To put that in context, the total number of rush-hour commuters of all modes (transit, car, bike) from Kanata, Barrhaven, Bayshore and Ottawa West is 16 160, according to the 2011 Origin-Destination survey. So even if there were four lines running at equal headways and transit modal share were 100%, trains would still run half-full (or half-empty).

With trains every 3 minutes to the East and West, every 6 minutes North-South, I don't think that it's unreasonable.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by toaster

The Bayshore area is not low density.

Very true. The devellopment closest to Bayshore is certainly medium density.
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=baysho...=fflb&t=h&z=16

[Aylmer]

^ I was surprised to find just how self-contained Bayshore is - at rush-hour, there's almost as many people commuting to the area than there are people leaving it. (24 000 to 20 000). Huh.


However, I stand by my comments about Orleans and Barrhaven since they're so commuter-oriented.

[danishh]

Assuming watson's stage 2 plan goes through, this is how I envision stage 3 and 4 going. The red circles are ~750m radiuses from the stations.
stage 2 map for reference:



my plan (click for bigger version):


Stage 3 (relatively cheap):
-expand confederation line west from bayshore to kanata (likely to palladium, with possible future expansion between kanata south and stittsville for TOD/park and rides). The north-kanata transitway/transit priority would then feed into a closer light-rail station instead of using the 417 to bayshore.
-expand confederation line south from algonquin to barrhaven town centre. The split service on the confederation line that would be in place after stage 2 would continue.
-new orleans south line requiring transfer at blair. This would facilitate TOD in orleans south and development of the employment lands there.

Stage 4 (very expensive):
- carling line. Currently slated to be a dedicated-lane streetcar line, i would prefer grade separation in the form of a transit trench. Provides access to employment at civic hospital/ROH and rapid transit coverage of most of the west-ottawa core. Kanata riders would now have to transfer at lincoln fields to go downtown.
-centretown tunnel. This diagonal tunnel would connect carling station with uOttawa station. Would facilitate intensification of centretown and connect the bus station to the network. Tunnel would terminate on montreal road. This would be a really expensive project, but would be required for continued intensification in the downtown core.
-montreal line. Essentially the carling line for vanier, the new CFB Rockliffe development, and gloucester. Also serves Monfort hospital employment, Grade-separated transit trench is preferred so this line can then connect to the orleans north line. Orleans north riders would have to transfer at uOttawa to go downtown. Small portion of Stage 2 (blair station to montreal road) would become redundant, but could be used for downtown express trains during rush hour.

Future
- (in gatineau) - rapibus conversion to light rail (just one station shown). While arguments have been made against the POW crossing, it remains the best route to serve the population centre in old gatineau. Bayview station would become the major transit hub for gatineau riders.
- this system would provide the redundancy needed to develop the o-train corridor north of hwy 417 into an interprovincial road crossing connecting highway 417 with hwy 50. This is probably the most elegant solution to downtown truck traffic and prevents the political problems when dealing with NCC parkways, environmentalists, or community associations (though a small community in hull between montcalm, saint-joseph, and alexandre-tache would be effected)
- a rapid-transit link to hull would still be needed due to government employment there and possible future intensification. The NCC's downtown circulator bus proposal could be a temporary solution.
-commuter rail as extension of light rail beyond kanata, orleans, barrhaven, and leitrim would require impractical travel times.


Deficiencies.
- only barrhaven and orleans south would have direct journeys to downtown. Kanata would have to transfer at lincoln fields, Orleans-north would have to transfer at uOttawa, Leitrim and Gatineau would have to transfer at Bayview. Alternatively, the green and yellow sections downtown could be flipped, connecting kanata and orleans north to downtown directly but requiring a transfer for barrhaven and orleans south.
- airport not directly connected. The airport authority would have to build their own people-mover from lester station, potentially something like the london heathrow personal pods system.
- Riverside-Smyth hospital complex not connected (major employment centre).
- Landsdown not connected (but possibly a good thing given the headache caused by anything going through the glebe)
- any exurb traffic removed would simply be replaced with new exurb development. Perhaps a strategy focused solely inside the greenbelt would be more productive to achieve core intensification and discourage urban sprawl. If that is a debate we want to have as a city, the time for it is now as once stage 2 gets approved to orleans, every exurb will want their own line.

[gjhall]

I think that's a very elegant solution, though as you state, there are some serious deficiencies to consider.

[Aylmer]

I'm of the opinion that the outer suburbs shouldn't receive LRT: it's important that a system shouldn't over-extend itself because it becomes too long to get from one place to the next.


If we want service to Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven to be quick and efficient, we need to have as few stops as possible. But if we want to service inner-Ottawa, we need there to be more stops to service a higher density of origins and destinations.

So a suburb/urban LRT system that aims to accommodate both will be good at neither. For example, it takes over a half-hour to get from Laval to Downtown Montréal, but the similarly-distanced Bois-Franc commuter rail station covers it in half that time: this is because the orange line is meant to serve high-density neighbourhoods with a high density of stations, unlike the train.

So I'm of the opinion that we should build a separate system for the outer suburbs which will travel faster with fewer stops.
These lines could use hybrid LRVs, capable of both operating on diesel on mainline tracks and running on LRT lines in the core, if necessary (like in Den Haag, Karlsruhe and Mulhouse). And they could be set up for next to nothing, requiring little new rail, no immediate electrification, grade-separation or elaborate stations.
Just as importantly, inner-Ottawa LRT would no longer face the pressure to cut stations to accommodate suburban traffic and would be able to better serve the more urban parts of the city.

So we could have faster, more extensive, all-day service for pennies on the LRT dollar which would also improve inner-Ottawa LRT.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by danishh

Assuming watson's stage 2 plan goes through, this is how I envision stage 3 and 4 going. The red circles are ~750m radiuses from the stations.
stage 2 map for reference:



my plan (click for bigger version):


Stage 3 (relatively cheap):
-expand confederation line west from bayshore to kanata (likely to palladium, with possible future expansion between kanata south and stittsville for TOD/park and rides). The north-kanata transitway/transit priority would then feed into a closer light-rail station instead of using the 417 to bayshore.
-expand confederation line south from algonquin to barrhaven town centre. The split service on the confederation line that would be in place after stage 2 would continue.
-new orleans south line requiring transfer at blair. This would facilitate TOD in orleans south and development of the employment lands there.

Stage 4 (very expensive):
- carling line. Currently slated to be a dedicated-lane streetcar line, i would prefer grade separation in the form of a transit trench. Provides access to employment at civic hospital/ROH and rapid transit coverage of most of the west-ottawa core. Kanata riders would now have to transfer at lincoln fields to go downtown.
-centretown tunnel. This diagonal tunnel would connect carling station with uOttawa station. Would facilitate intensification of centretown and connect the bus station to the network. Tunnel would terminate on montreal road. This would be a really expensive project, but would be required for continued intensification in the downtown core.
-montreal line. Essentially the carling line for vanier, the new CFB Rockliffe development, and gloucester. Also serves Monfort hospital employment, Grade-separated transit trench is preferred so this line can then connect to the orleans north line. Orleans north riders would have to transfer at uOttawa to go downtown. Small portion of Stage 2 (blair station to montreal road) would become redundant, but could be used for downtown express trains during rush hour.

Future
- (in gatineau) - rapibus conversion to light rail (just one station shown). While arguments have been made against the POW crossing, it remains the best route to serve the population centre in old gatineau. Bayview station would become the major transit hub for gatineau riders.
- this system would provide the redundancy needed to develop the o-train corridor north of hwy 417 into an interprovincial road crossing connecting highway 417 with hwy 50. This is probably the most elegant solution to downtown truck traffic and prevents the political problems when dealing with NCC parkways, environmentalists, or community associations (though a small community in hull between montcalm, saint-joseph, and alexandre-tache would be effected)
- a rapid-transit link to hull would still be needed due to government employment there and possible future intensification. The NCC's downtown circulator bus proposal could be a temporary solution.
-commuter rail as extension of light rail beyond kanata, orleans, barrhaven, and leitrim would require impractical travel times.


Deficiencies.
- only barrhaven and orleans south would have direct journeys to downtown. Kanata would have to transfer at lincoln fields, Orleans-north would have to transfer at uOttawa, Leitrim and Gatineau would have to transfer at Bayview. Alternatively, the green and yellow sections downtown could be flipped, connecting kanata and orleans north to downtown directly but requiring a transfer for barrhaven and orleans south.
- airport not directly connected. The airport authority would have to build their own people-mover from lester station, potentially something like the london heathrow personal pods system.
- Riverside-Smyth hospital complex not connected (major employment centre).
- Landsdown not connected (but possibly a good thing given the headache caused by anything going through the glebe)
- any exurb traffic removed would simply be replaced with new exurb development. Perhaps a strategy focused solely inside the greenbelt would be more productive to achieve core intensification and discourage urban sprawl. If that is a debate we want to have as a city, the time for it is now as once stage 2 gets approved to orleans, every exurb will want their own line.

First off, welcome to the forum

I like the general idea of your plan, but the lack of service to Lansdowne concerns me. I use to think that a Carling rapid transit line could curve south to Lansdowne and come back up Bank to Rideau-Montreal, though I believe that would be way to expensive. Still, some sort of solution to have a full east-west metrO line from Lincoln Fields to the Rockliffe Base with service to Lansdowne would be awesome.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm of the opinion that the outer suburbs shouldn't receive LRT: it's important that a system shouldn't over-extend itself because it becomes too long to get from one place to the next.


If we want service to Kanata, Orleans and Barrhaven to be quick and efficient, we need to have as few stops as possible. But if we want to service inner-Ottawa, we need there to be more stops to service a higher density of origins and destinations.

So a suburb/urban LRT system that aims to accommodate both will be good at neither. For example, it takes over a half-hour to get from Laval to Downtown Montréal, but the similarly-distanced Bois-Franc commuter rail station covers it in half that time: this is because the orange line is meant to serve high-density neighbourhoods with a high density of stations, unlike the train.

So I'm of the opinion that we should build a separate system for the outer suburbs which will travel faster with fewer stops.
These lines could use hybrid LRVs, capable of both operating on diesel on mainline tracks and running on LRT lines in the core, if necessary (like in Den Haag, Karlsruhe and Mulhouse). And they could be set up for next to nothing, requiring little new rail, no immediate electrification, grade-separation or elaborate stations.
Just as importantly, inner-Ottawa LRT would no longer face the pressure to cut stations to accommodate suburban traffic and would be able to better serve the more urban parts of the city.

So we could have faster, more extensive, all-day service for pennies on the LRT dollar which would also improve inner-Ottawa LRT.

I have pointed out the flaw of converting the Transitways before. We are compromising between an urban system and a commuter system which will not be ideal for either. Basically, the Transitways were designed for suburban commuter service and do not serve the urban part of the city well. The conversion with added stations and compulsory stops at every station will slow down commuter service.

However, our course of action is now fixed. I don't see the advantage of operating paralell systems, one urban, one commuter based on the lack of rail lines and particularly the lack of rail lines feeding the centre of the city directly. Forcing commuter trains to run in a round about route into the city will lose any advantage compared with more stops on a direct route.

I don't think Ottawa is big enough to have both urban and commuter rail networks especially now that we have decided to convert the primary commuter route, the Transitways, into an urban system.

[eemy]

My rather fantastical plan:

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...g.kI_2fFjHj95c

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

My rather fantastical plan:

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...g.kI_2fFjHj95c

Seems pretty darn realistic to me (as a 30-50 year plan).

[Aylmer]

I like that you've integrated a mid-downtown Gatineau link - I maintain that such a link would finally bring the two cores together: with only a minute or two separating them as opposed to about ten as it is today, it would become easy for people to hop between downtown Ottawa and downtown Hull in a way that it has never been possible.

[Urbanarchit]

It's been about a month, but I feel it's time to post what 1overcosc and Aylmer have worked diligently on producing. Aylmer is still working on the streetcar map, and will post it later.

The Red Line is the current LRT line the city is working on that connects Baseline Station to the train station and Blair. But this line favours the suburbs over the rest of the city. It brings them from Baseline to Tunney’s and through our CBD, or Blair Station to our CBD. It’s not very useful for people who live in Centretown and have to walk up to Queen to take this line to take them… where? Maybe to Westboro or the train station, but there isn’t much need for them to go there.

The same goes for the Green O-train line, which connects to Bayview Station and Carleton University, but otherwise has no real use for urban residents. So this is why I am pleased to share my idea for an urban transportation system for Ottawa.

Despite it being more expensive, it would be ideal for most of this in the core to be located underground to save room on the surface for cyclists, pedestrians, and even some cars and other forms of transit (streetcars, ideally, as I’d hope buses would be unnecessary here).

These lines go through key areas that the city wants to see developed, and they could accomplish this with TOD (killing to birds with one stone). It would probably be too expensive still. They could build these lines in phases, identifying the Pink, Blue, and Forest Green LRT lines, and the Yellow and Orange Lines, but start with the areas between Clearly, Montford, Billings Bridge, and the parts of the interprovincial lines that cross to the opposite side of the Ottawa River. If the city were to build these lines (all of them, ideally) they could possibly eliminate buses from our downtown.

1overcosc and Aylmer did phenomenal jobs making the LRT and streetcar lines for me, and I am so grateful for their hard work!

1overcosc’s map:

LRT:


Streetcar:


Overlay:



The Rideau Centre would be the main transit hub for Ottawa, where several LRT lines converge to connect commuters to other parts of the city. It would be great use for Union Station to be the location of this transit station, for obvious reasons. It’s name would be quite symbolic, because this is where people from different parts of the city would meet through transit.

LRT

1) First, I felt Kitchissippi Ward and Somerset Ward deserved an LRT line that can get them to the Rideau Centre and all the way out West to the Coliseum and Bayshore. This line goes from Rideau up to the Elgin and Somerset intersection, bring people to an important commercial strip before turning West to continue along Somerset through to Bank Street, where it meets the Blue line, then over to Chinatown, Little Italy, Hintonburg and Parkdale Market (which would be redeveloped like I mentioned in my initial post), through West Wellington, Westboro. It would meet the Red LRT Line at Cleary and New Orchard so that people can transfer to either go to Baseline and Lincoln Fields, or for those coming from those areas to get on the Pink Line. It would continue out to the Coliseum and Bayshore.

Somerset Square includes the two blocks where the point where Somerset and Wellington meet and ends at Bayview Road. Spadina crossing it would be eliminated and the square would be expanded to almost halfway in the eastern block. The rest of the block would ideally be a high-rise of some sort. The station would be located in its podium, but I’d hope for some retail space on Wellington and Somerset, maybe Bayview, if there is room. There could be two exits, but the main one would open up onto the square, with the second opening onto Bayview. Having a metro station here would provide considerable traffic to this section of Hintonburg so that redevelopment of the surrounding land would be possible with new retail.

We wanted to have the Pink LRT connect to Bayview or the O-train, but the line would have to swerve to connect to either, so we decided we’d continue it to continue straight West, but either allow an underground passage (or some other easy way) to connect to Bayview.

2) Next, we decided to create an LRT line for Bank Street, considering it is another important commercial strip, and the buses going along this route to the Glebe and Old Ottawa South to Carleton are far too full (I took the #7 once, and it was so packed I could barely get off). The Blue Line connect to the Red Line at Parliament, which is the transfer point to get to the Rideau Centre or elsewhere. It continues South along Bank Street before connecting to the Pink Line at Bank and Somerset. It would stop again at Gladstone (connecting with the Gladstone streetcar) and then cross into the Glebe. Eventually, it would connect to Lansdowne, then Sunnyside (or Belmont so it’s a bit more central, and that old man lamenting the closing of his TD branch could catch it to go to Lansdowne) and then Billings Bridge. It could extend to Confederation so people can choose between the O-train or this line, then get people to Mooney’s Bay.

3) The forest green line begins at Rideau and continues East down Rideau to Vanier and Montreal road. It would connect to Montfort Hospital (Den Haag) before turning South to meet the Red Line at Blair. This would give people in Vanier and Lowertown fast transport in the ward, and would also get people to the hospital.

Gatineau LRT
Next are the lines that connect Gatineau to Ottawa. I don’t know much about the needs of Gatineau, but I tried to determine certain locations that could use development or might be important. Having two lines connecting to stations that flank downtown, one meeting at the important Rideau Centre station, could reduce (or even eliminate) STO buses from Ottawa, as they could all connect to LRT stations in Gatineau where could people to transfer to. It would also reduce the cars coming into Ottawa for similar reasons as the buses. Ottawa would only pay for their share of the lines that cross the river, but the rest of the line would be covered by Gatineau.

4) The Orange Line would connect Terrasses de la Chaudière to Bayview Station. This would not be an extension of the O-train, but simply meet it at Bayview. This way people could transfer to the Red Line and get to other parts of Ottawa, or people from Ottawa could go to Gatineau, and eventually to Casino Lac-Leamy.

5) The Yellow Line connects certain areas of Gatineau to Hull (though the Fournier Station would require that entire island to be redeveloped). It would get people to the Museum of Civ… I mean Canadian Museum of History, and then cross the river to the Rideau Centre. That way people can come into Ottawa and do shopping or transfer to any of the other four lines to get to Rideau-Vanier, Kitchissippi-Somerset, or Centretown-Glebe.

6) The Purple Line would connect Aylmer to Hull, with the Park Station by the library. There would be a station at UQO, and then connect to Chaudière, Place du Portage and then Museum station. This would get people quickly through Hull to two lines that people could use to transfer into Ottawa. The other stations I’m not sure of yet, because they’re in areas of low-rise, detached homes without much room for development.

Streetcars

I decided on four streetcar lines that would work as secondary, surface transit to get to other parts of the city that don’t quite need LRT, but could use some decent transport. All Streetcars eventually meet ones or multiple times with different LRT lines, so that commuters can transfer to other lines and locations. They would have frequent stops, but perhaps not as frequent as bused.

1) The Lime Green streetcar line follows the same route as the #14 bus. It goes from the Rideau Centre, and then moves South along Elgin Street (intersects with the Pink LRT line at Elgin and Somerset), then turns West at Gladstone to continue to Preston Street. It would intersect with the Bronson-Carling line and the Dow-Preston Line. Gladstone has a lot of potential for redevelopment and is seeing some decent retail coming in.

2) The next line would be the Turquoise Line that goes from LeBreton Flats up to Albert Street, over to Preston and then through Little Italy up to Dow’s Lake.

3) The third line is the Goldenrod Line that goes from Columbine in Tunney’s Pasture to the Tunney’s Pasture Station, then up Holland (which will hopefully become a big commercial street). It would continue up to Carling, then eventually continue South along Fisher Avenue to Baseline and Fisher. This would get people to and from Tunney’s Pasture and the Red Line to the Pink Line and then up the Vermilion Line. It would also serve the people of Carlington to get to Wellington and two LRT lines.

4) The Silver Line connects Westboro Beach and Westboro Station to Carling. It turns down Churchill and goes straight up to the industrial area just on the South side of Carling. It would give people greater access to the Pink LRT line and to the Vermilion Line to get transfer onto.

5) The Brown Line would serve Lowertown to Vanier and Beechwood, then down Vanier Parkway to the VIA Rails. It would connect to Hurdman and then Lees.

6) The Grey Line would go from around the Lester B. Pearson Building around King Edward and Boteler, straight down King Edward to Rideau (transfer to the Forest Green line) and through uOttawa to Lees Station to connect to the Red Line and the Brown streetcar line. Hopefully we’ll see a complete redevelopment of Lees.

7) The Black Line would connect to Lees and then go straight to Main in Old Ottawa East and then South towards Sunnyside and Carleton University. One stop would be at Riverdale and Avenue. I don’t remember if they wanted to build a bridge to Lansdowne here, but if so it would be useful for people coming from the East to go to Lansdowne.

It would also enable students of uOttawa and Carleton to live farther from campus because they’d have better transit lines to get there.

8 and 9) Originally I had these two lines as one, but I felt it might be better to split it at Westgate. The Vermillion Line goes from LeBreton Flats along Bronson, connecting with the Pink and Red Lines, then turns West at Carling to continue past Dow’s Lake, Civic Hospital, ROH, and then ends at Westgate. The second line starts at Westgate and continues West to Carlingwood, Lincoln Fields (meeting the Red Line) then ends at Britannia Beach.

This is the wonderful LRT map that Aylmer enthusiastically made. They took several liberties to include lines they thought would be important on top of the few that I asked for. I also want to include the original map they drew, whichI felt had too many redundant lines, but would be good for you to see the evolution and judge for yourself. My main criticism is bifurcating lines. I think a streetcar line connecting to the main LRT line would be better for such short distances.

This map was designed to reach parts of the city that are suburban, but have enough room (box stores, industrial areas, etc.) that could be redeveloped into something higher density. In these areas, it would be surface LRT, whereas towards the core (maybe not the Carling Line) would be underground, ideally.




LRT Map

1) The Red Line is what’s currently underway. Aylmer took the liberty to continue it out to Orleans. It also bifurcates before Queensview to go to Bayshore, but continues past Woodroofe to Hunt Club Road.

2) The Orange Line serves the University of Ottawa and Somerset-Kitchissippi Wards. It goes from the Rideau Centre up to Campus Station, then crosses the Canal and continues straight down Somerset, Wellington, Richmond Road until it reaches Churchill Avenue and turns South to go up Merivale Road to MacFarlane Road.

3) The Blue Bank Street Line begins in Hull and then crosses the River to follow Bank Street right through to Walkley.

4) The O-train line was done in Fuschia, and was supposed to be separate from the line that goes into Gatineau. The O-train at the very least connects to the airport, but then provides connections to the Blue, Green, and Red Lines.

5) The Highlighter Green Line goes to Rideau Centre, then follows Queen Elizabeth Drive and the Canal to Carling, connecting with Lansdowne. It continues West on Carling past Bayshore to the Queensway Carleton Hospital.

6) The Aquamarine Line connects the Queensway Carleton to Algonquin College, Hog’s Back Falls and ends at Billings Bridge. It connects with with 5 different lines for transfers, and follows Baseline Road.

7) The Yellow Line connects Blair Station to the Rideau Centre by going through Vanier and Lowertown. It meets at the Rideau Centre, but continues to Lyon to accommodate a higher volume of people going to the CBD.

8) The Grey Line connects Mooney’s Bat to the Fuschia and Turquoise lines before connecting to the Red Line at Hurdman Station.

9) The Black and White Lines would be a commuter train that connects far-flung towns to Ottawa’s main transit system so they can get in and out.

10) Gatineau’s Carrot Orange Line connects to areas West and North of Aylmer, but brings them through to UQO, Taché, Portage to Museum and then to the Rideau Centre. Originally the two blue lines were going to continue across the river, one to Rideau the other to Bayview, but I felt that they would be redundant if we had several lines running parallel to each other (you can view it in the original).

11) The Azure Line connects to parts of Gatineau I’m not familiar with, but brings people to Gamelin CÉGEP and then to St-Raymond or UQO. This line was originally going to continue to Rideau Centre.

12) The Cyan line connects to the Azure Line at Gamelin to Lac-Leamy and the Gatineau-Fuschia Line (it’s a separate line from the O-train). It originally follows the same path as the Fuschia Line to Bayview.

13) The Gatineau-Fuschia Line brings people from as far away as Lac Beauchamp to Les Promenade, where it meets the Lime Green Line, then continues to Lac-Leamy, Taché and then to Bayview.

14) The Lime Green Line connects l’Hôpital de Gatineau to the Fuschia Line and les Promenades, before continuing South to Hull and Musée. Originally, Aylmer wanted it to continue to UQO.

I thought 2-3 lines connecting Gatineau’s transit system would be sufficient for interprovincial crossings, one at Rideau, one at Bayview, and another to our CBD. There would be several stops, including Musée, Taché and Portage where people from these lines could disembark and transfer to another line that will bring them into Ottawa.

[danishh]

Originally Posted by defishel

I'm a fan of those buildings and adding something more by the Supreme Court. But I'd rather keep the Victoria Building and the small bank building beside it.

Interesting photos you got of this! Great find!

yeah, victoria building is fine, and the union bank building hopefully isnt going anywhere - it's the last remaining reminder of bankers' row.

The problems on that block are La Promenade building and what to do with the old American Embassy (and the big parking lot/delivery area between the two). Unfortunately a lot of money has been put into La Promenade recently, so that's going nowhere.

[Buggys]

Those maps look awesome!

Here are some of my comments / suggested tweaks....

The amount of lines in 1overcosc's map is more realistic in our lifetime, but Alymer's map incorporates all the lines that the City of Ottawa has EA's for (both completed and newly started).

I don't understand why 1overcosc put Coliseum instead of Pinecrest station. I think it makes more sense for the pink line to go Croydon, Pinecrest (IKEA), Bayshore; and the brown line to go Lincoln Fields, Coliseum.

I like that Alymer put a direct link to the airport and makes use of commuter rail lines.

For both the maps, can we have an additional station just East of Bronson Station at Kent? This station will link to the Greyhound's Station Centrale (at Catherine and Kent).

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Those maps look awesome!

Here are some of my comments / suggested tweaks....

The amount of lines in 1overcosc's map is more realistic in our lifetime, but Alymer's map incorporates all the lines that the City of Ottawa has EA's for (both completed and newly started).

I don't understand why 1overcosc put Coliseum instead of Pinecrest station. I think it makes more sense for the pink line to go Croydon, Pinecrest (IKEA), Bayshore; and the brown line to go Lincoln Fields, Coluseum. We could have it go to Pinecrest, and ignore the Coliseum altogether, I guess.

I like that Alymer put a direct link to the airport and makes use of commuter rail lines.

For both the maps, can we have an additional station just East of Bronson Station at Kent? This station will link to the Greyhound's Station Centrale (at Catherine and Kent).

My initial vision was what I asked 1overcosc to design, as I thought this would serve the city quite well. Aylmer's would work, I feel, if we grew large enough to build up those areas.

I asked for the line to go to to Coliseum from Croydon because I thought people would rather be able to go to a movie theatre (though it would be useful for transit to IKEA...), and then the brown streetcar line would take people from Lincoln Fields to Britannia Beach.

As for the Greyhound bus station... it seems hard to meet the needs of everything in Ottawa with a transit line. A streetcar line could be introduced for Catherine Street, but there's the Blue line that goes a block away on Bank Street.

Edit: I don't know if you can make it out, but this is a map of the area with the stops and lines.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by defishel

My initial vision was what I asked 1overcosc to design, as I thought this would serve the city quite well. Aylmer's would work, I feel, if we grew large enough to build up those areas.

I asked for the line to go to to Coliseum from Croydon because I thought people would rather be able to go to a movie theatre (though it would be useful for transit to IKEA...), and then the brown streetcar line would take people from Lincoln Fields to Britannia Beach.

As for the Greyhound bus station... it seems hard to meet the needs of everything in Ottawa with a transit line. A streetcar line could be introduced for Catherine Street, but there's the Blue line that goes a block away on Bank Street.

Edit: I don't know if you can make it out, but this is a map of the area with the stops and lines.

I can see why a stop a Britannia beach would be nice.
However, looking at your satellite photo, Pinecrest is more isolated than the other stations. Perhaps the LRT can go from a "Lincoln Fields/Croydon" superstation, go to Pinecrest, and then go to a "Bayshore/Coliseum" superstation.

As for Greyhound's Station Centrale, I had meant a new station along the same line that Bronson station is on, at Kent. That should be ~2 mins walk from the Greyhound.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Buggys

I can see why a stop a Britannia beach would be nice.
However, looking at your satellite photo, Pinecrest is more isolated than the other stations. Perhaps the LRT can go from a "Lincoln Fields/Croydon" superstation, go to Pinecrest, and then go to a "Bayshore/Coliseum" superstation.

As for Greyhound's Station Centrale, I had meant a new station along the same line that Bronson station is on, at Kent. That should be ~2 mins walk from the Greyhound.

Hm, I'm thinking you may be right. As great as it would be for Coliseum and Croydon to have their own stations, Pinecrest deserves something more. We'd just have to find a way to get people easily to Coliseum, then, without having to go too out of their way.

Wasn't Lincoln Fields going to be moved South more? It would make sense for that area, with lots of development potential, to have their own station.

I'm confused by what you mean about the Greyhound Station. Do you mean move the current Greyhound Bus Station to Bronson and Somerset so it's served by a line? The only thing I can imagine is close is the Lime Greek Gladstone Streetcar Line that comes close enough. It would be weird to detour them just to meet the bus terminal, especially if we see Gladstone turned into an important commercial strip. Having a streetcar line along Catherine is possible, except it's too short and out-of-the-way to have direct transit. Hm...

Maybe if we got rid of the Queensway and had those blocks developed there could be a major East-West LRT line or something that could serve them, but then again if there's no Queensway the terminal might have to move elsewhere, possibly to VIA Rail.

The thick lines are underground LRT under Bank and Somerset, the thin lines are surface streetcars on Bronson and Gladstone. The circle is the bus terminal.

[Aylmer]

I just finished up the streetcar map, for which I also took some liberties, notably by extending the Vanier line into Lowertown and extending the Preston line into the new Chaudière islands and Montcalm developments.



I'm personally a little sceptical of streetcars, since they don't provide any more mobility than a bus (though there are many other arguments). I would want it to have reserved lanes wherever possible (like on Vanier, parts of King Edward and Bronson).

But from a quality and attractiveness perspective, a streetcar would be lovely