Busiest Downtowns in Canada - Page 8

Kilgore Trout · #**141** Posted **Mar 30, 2020, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlov

Anyone know the downtown population of Quebec City?

36,465. That includes St-Roch, Montcalm, Vieux-Québec and St-Jean-Baptiste.

https://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/aprop...ers/index.aspx

logan5 · #**142** Posted **Mar 30, 2020, 11:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

36,465. That includes St-Roch, Montcalm, Vieux-Québec and St-Jean-Baptiste.

https://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/aprop...ers/index.aspx

What's the area?

lio45 · #**143** Posted **Mar 30, 2020, 11:41 PM**

The downtown borough had ~110k people last census in ~22 square km. That includes parks and empty space so I don't know that it's a very usable number, but it's factual.

Coldrsx · #**144** Posted **Mar 30, 2020, 11:47 PM**

Two of the challenges for Downtown Edmonton are:

1. that we are literally bisected by the North Saskatchewan River and a significant valley, which historically meant two separate cities... Edmonton and Strathcona. This still holds true today to some extent and keeps a significant entertainment and cultural sector, along with quite a bit of density and the UofA 'over there'.

2. that Jasper Avenue is very linear, ie from 82st-124st and so that lines it with businesses and density, but the depth to it is rather thin still. We need to continue to fill in the gaps and add another 15-25k people to 97st-109st, ie. the CBD and core area.

Populations:

Downtown - 12,500-14,000
Oliver (just west) - 25,000

We also have WEM that attracts 30,000,000 people a year to it, yup, 30mil, and many that might otherwise stay, shop, stay, play, eat Downtown, do that 'out there'.

That said, we are working very hard to collectively transform the core and in the last few years ~3bil has been invested (public/private) with another 3-5 planned.

FrAnKs · #**145** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 12:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

The downtown borough had ~110k people last census in ~22 square km. That includes parks and empty space so I don't know that it's a very usable number, but it's factual.

Yes and with an overall population density of 4864 inhabitants per km square.
St-Jean-Baptiste neighbourhood is the densest at 13 799 inhabitants per km square, this is more than Le Plateau Mont-Royal in Montréal.

Acajack · #**146** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 12:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87

I think a big difference is that Bedford, Sackville, and Fall River don't really have much employment beyond neighbourhood retail. Detroit metro on the other hand is very decentralized - many if not most of the big employers, infrastructure, students etc. are concentrated in various pockets outside of Detroit proper. I'd guess the Windsor area is a bit like this but not nearly as pronounced (for one thing amalgamations are much more common and frequent in Canada than in the US).

Downtown Windsor used to be livelier prior to the post-9 11 border restrictions. Detroit also built a number of casinos which helped keep that clientele on their side.

Hali87 · #**147** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Downtown Windsor used to be livelier prior to the post-9 11 border restrictions. Detroit also built a number of casinos which helped keep that clientele on their side.

Still, it was surprisingly common when I went ~5 years ago to see billboards in Detroit advertising events etc in Windsor (especially at the casino), about as common as the inverse.

ssiguy · #**148** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:18 AM**

Edmonton has many strikes against it. As noted the University and it's entire student ghetto is on the other side of the Sask River, a high crime rate, WED, and a relatively low downtown population.

The latter is certainly changing and the downtown is growing but that's not the city's biggest downtown liability. The problem with Edmonton is that even in the downtown there are no "complete streets". There is not a single block in Edmonton that doesn't have a parking lot/garage or a big concrete office wall facing the street. It is completely disjointed making the downtown very pedestrian unfriendly.

Coldrsx · #**149** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:26 AM**

...and yet we still prevail.

3 pages of mostly Downtown/central Edmonton photos.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...light=edmonton

Chadillaccc · #**150** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Edmonton has many strikes against it. As noted the University and it's entire student ghetto is on the other side of the Sask River, a high crime rate, WED, and a relatively low downtown population.

The latter is certainly changing and the downtown is growing but that's not the city's biggest downtown liability. The problem with Edmonton is that even in the downtown there are no "complete streets". There is not a single block in Edmonton that doesn't have a parking lot/garage or a big concrete office wall facing the street. It is completely disjointed making the downtown very pedestrian unfriendly.

The latter unfortunately isn't actually changing. While the city is growing at a faster rate than Calgary the past couple years, the inner city population of Edmonton has dropped by several thousand over the past decade, according to their municipal census results. It was shocking to see, considering how many towers they have constructed during the period where Calgary's downtown/inner city population has doubled.

Coldrsx · #**151** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:39 AM**

^totally misleading... for we have added a few thousand units and plenty of growth.

Hali87 · #**152** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The latter unfortunately isn't actually changing. While the city is growing at a faster rate than Calgary the past couple years, the inner city population of Edmonton has dropped by several thousand over the past decade, according to their municipal census results. It was shocking to see, considering how many towers they have constructed during the period where Calgary's downtown/inner city population has doubled.

I'm not sure if this is what's at play here, but one subtle difference I noticed between Calgary and Edmonton is that in Calgary it seems increasingly common for inner-city lots to be subdivided, so a single house might be torn down to be replaced by two separate houses on narrower lots. Whereas in Edmonton, it's more common for the single house to be torn down and simply replaced with a newer SFH (my grandparents referred to this as "infill" in Edmonton).

I'm cautiously optimistic about the old Edmonton Airport redevelopment. My limited experiences in Edmonton (a lot of family there) hint that people have a "get 'er done and then get home" attitude when it comes to downtown and the city in general and that density and walkability are largely viewed as being for cities that don't have the luxuries of near-limitless developable land and near-universal car ownership.

logan5 · #**153** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 1:59 AM**

Oliver easily has a high enough density to support a kick ass retail street. Unfortunately the retail units along Jasper are not the type that attracts the right mix of businesses that make a neighbourhood vibrant. Similar to Central Broadway (medical district) where pop density exceeds 30 000/sq mile, yet it's not very walk-able.

You can put as many towers as you want in a neighbourhood, but if you line the main retail street with blank walls, it's just not going to happen for that neighbourhood. Every great neighbourhood seems to be built around a retail street that was put together pre 1980's. Smaller retail units where the facade can be customized. This is what makes the neighbourhood colourful and interesting, and what attracts a variety of restaurants and other cool independent businesses that draw lots of people out.

Coldrsx · #**154** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:02 AM**

Yup, the small-scale retail and urbanity leaves a lot to be desired in many stretches, but 124st is developing nicely and 114-123st will have a lot of new infill in the next 5-10 with proper street-fronting CRUs.

Chadillaccc · #**155** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^totally misleading... for we have added a few thousand units and plenty of growth.

Well, no, it's not misleading. The data is on the city of Edmonton municipal census website. Sorry that you aren't ok with... reality? I was only stating a fact. I even said in my comment that it was surprising, because of the addition of units yet loss of population. Both wards 6 and 8 (the inner city) have lost 3 to 5 000 ish a piece between 2014 and 2019. Sorry?

Ward 8 - 2014: https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...d%208_2014.pdf
Ward 6 - 2014: https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...d%206_2014.pdf

Both wards - 2019: https://public.tableau.com/profile/c...unicipalCensus

Coldrsx · #**156** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:19 AM**

Sometimes numbers, statistics say one thing, when in actuality they mean another. You cannot add a half-dozen towers to vacant lots and lose population. We were in the top 3 fastest growing neighbourhoods for 1-2 years in a row. While it is still not where we need to be, we certainly added a few thousand residents.

Loco101 · #**157** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

Montreal is probably the best and largest Canadian example of a city with solid bones that has come back and still has tons of potential.

It probably bottomed out in the mid-1990s sometime, whereas other places like New York were already rising then. By virtue of the political climate improving along with the economy, if one had got in around 1995, they could have done quite well for themselves.

It has a good mass transit system, is well connected to Ottawa/Toronto/New York by road and steadily improving air connections. The language barrier means that speculators from abroad aren't excessively playing the housing appreciation game as much as in other places. I think it still has the one of the best affordability ratios for ordinary people too, so the future seems bright, especially for the locals.

I agree! I love Montreal.

I even loved going there in the 1990s when the economy wasn't great. You could get amazingly good meals with cuisine that was so far ahead of Ontario yet quite inexpensive. The nightlife, fashion, decor, arts and entertainment in Montreal then and today cannot be topped by any other large city in Canada or the U.S..

Montreal's downtown probably has the busiest nightlife of any city in Canada.

Coldrsx · #**158** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:26 AM**

Remember when they were considering bulldozing Old Montreal... good lord.

Chadillaccc · #**159** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Sometimes numbers, statistics say one thing, when in actuality they mean another. You cannot add a half-dozen towers to vacant lots and lose population. We were in the top 3 fastest growing neighbourhoods for 1-2 years in a row. While it is still not where we need to be, we certainly added a few thousand residents.

You don't just have 10 000 people not answering censuses in the inner city dude. There is no explanation for that, unless you can somehow provide a valid one other than pure dismissal of the facts. 10 000 would account for the 3000 to 5000 loss between the districts and a growth of several thousand each. It's almost statistically impossible that this many people wouldn't answer the census, unless Edmonton uses wayyy different/ineffective census collection methods than Calgary. Our inner city grew by well over 10 000 in that period. Hell, Beltline grew by 1700 in 2018 alone, and the census reflected that. We didn't just base it on anecdotes on the insane number of condo/rental units completed.

Coldrsx · #**160** Posted **Mar 31, 2020, 2:31 AM**

Actually, yes, yes you do. Oliver added a few hundred, if not thousand units as well.

Simply put, I don't believe it.