HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #141  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2019, 6:21 PM
fredinno's Avatar
fredinno fredinno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefox View Post
Seriously?

A problem for who? That's kind of the point...
The casinos, and the drug lords moving cash though the casino industry.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2019, 8:44 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,687
New study from PostMedia with some more facts behing money laundering and shows why the legislation on exposing the true owners of property is so important:

Millions in real estate linked to B.C. money-laundering investigations is 'owned' by nominees

$43 million in property value is linked to accused who were targets of RCMP E-Pirate money-laundering investigation and other related police probes.
Less than two weeks after the RCMP launched a series of raids in 2015 during an investigation into B.C.’s largest money laundering case, the spouse of a major police target sold a house on Fairbrook Crescent in Richmond.

The four-bedroom, five-bathroom home with marble floors and a home theatre was purchased in 2013 for $1.8 million. Paul King Jin’s spouse, Xiaoqi Wei, sold it for $1.93 million on Oct. 26, 2015, 11 days after the raids on Oct. 15, which were part of the RCMP’s E-Pirate probe.

During the raids at several locations, police seized more than $8 million in cash, largely bundles of $20 bills wrapped in elastic bands, ledgers allegedly containing information on money-laundering transactions, money counters, computers, cellphones and gambling equipment.

More than $4 million of the cash was seized from a gun safe in the master bedroom of a luxury Richmond condo where Wei lived with Jin, according to court documents...

....The analysis shows the main players — those accused of running illegal gambling operations and money laundering — often put properties and other assets in the names of nominees, such as relatives, and also were quick to protect assets when they come to the attention of law enforcement officials.

For example, less than three weeks after Maxim Poon Wong was arrested with more than $200,000 in cash by Vancouver police investigating a cosmetics business that police alleged was a branch for an underground bank — he added Karen Wong to the title of a $2.8-million home on West 62nd Avenue in Vancouver.

The ownership change — for $1 and “natural love and affection” — took place on Oct. 14, 2015, according to B.C. Land Title Office records, 19 days after Wong was arrested on Sept. 25.

Assets are often put in family members’ names — even jointly — to make them harder to seize as proceeds-of-crime, experts say...


https://theprovince.com/business/loc...c-6b0be43e3c1e
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2019, 9:15 PM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 8,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefox View Post
Seriously?

A problem for who? That's kind of the point...
IKR - should we get rid of food inspectors in order to sell food faster?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 1:34 AM
bluefox's Avatar
bluefox bluefox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
The casinos, and the drug lords moving cash though the casino industry.
Another bloody useless "industry" expecting to be subsidized either by regulatory or monetary means.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #145  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 2:11 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
retro_orange
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefox View Post
Another bloody useless "industry" expecting to be subsidized either by regulatory or monetary means.

Exactly. There should be a cap at $1,000/day for each person and in order to buy chips there should be a system that scans a piece of government issued ID to ensure they don't go to another casino in the same day once maxed out at one casino. It may sound like a pittance to someone who may drop 10k or 20k+ in one go but it's still $365,000 a year if you go to the casino daily which problem gamblers often do anyway.

I don't see what is so fascinating about gambling anyway, I have never willingly gone to a casino and feel hesitant to drop a few dollars on scratch tickets as it is. Casinos are basically supervised injection sites for gambling addicts and other seedy characters that feed off the addicts.

Only casinos don't offer the same level of harm reduction that opioid injection sites have in their unsensationalized atmosphere... almost like they imply opioids are an addiction worth kicking, unlike the former...

Last edited by retro_orange; May 1, 2019 at 2:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted May 1, 2019, 2:15 AM
bluefox's Avatar
bluefox bluefox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post
I don't see what is so fascinating about gambling anyway, I have never willingly gone to a casino and feel hesitant to drop a few dollars on scratch tickets as it is. Casinos are basically supervised injection sites for gambling addicts and other seedy characters that feed off the addicts.
The only reason I play the penny slots for a couple of hours in Vegas is for the free drinks
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #147  
Old Posted May 7, 2019, 6:55 AM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
retro_orange
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,029
Canada missing 99.9 per cent of money laundering because of weak rules, expert estimates

By Jen St. DenisStar Vancouver
Mon., May 6, 2019

VANCOUVER—Canada is likely missing 99.9 per cent of money laundering because of loose requirements and lenient penalties, according to the author of a C.D. Howe policy paper released Monday.

“Among Western liberal democracies, we’re down there with the weakest countries,” said Kevin Comeau, a retired lawyer and a member of Transparency International Canada’s working group on beneficial ownership transparency.

Canada has become a safe haven for dirty money and risks becoming even more attractive to criminals if provincial and federal governments don’t move quickly to introduce the same laws and regulations some European countries have adopted, Comeau said.

The International Monetary Fund estimates that two to five per cent of world gross domestic product is laundered money. Applied to Canada’s 2016 gross domestic product, Comeau estimates that between $40 billion and $100 billion a year is laundered through Canada.

A 2005 analysis of U.S. Treasury Department statistics shows that U.S. law enforcement agencies did not catch money launderers 99.9 percent of the time. Comeau pegs the amount of money laundering that Canada doesn’t catch at about the same amount.

“There is no reason to suspect Canada’s failure rate is any better, although we do not know for sure,” Comeau wrote in his policy brief.

Money laundering is hard to catch and prosecute because it is an invisible crime committed by anonymous people, Comeau said. That’s because under Canada’s current laws, anyone can create a corporation or a trust and conceal who truly owns it.

For instance, some of Vancouver’s most expensive residential properties are held by corporations whose directors are lawyers; those lawyers are protected by solicitor-client privilege from revealing who their client is.

British Columbia introduced Canada’s first public land ownership registry after revelations that billions in “dirty money” from the proceeds of crime were likely laundered through the province’s casinos for years. The province is now probing the extent of suspected money laundering in the real-estate industry.

Comeau said B.C.’s new land-ownership transparency law is “terrific” but the public registry needs to be extended across Canada and should cover all companies and trusts, not just property ownership.

He’s calling for the creation of a publicly available corporate registry, similar to the registry the United Kingdom created in 2016, and a mandatory declaration of the beneficial owner (that is, the true owner) of corporations and trusts.

He’d also like to see strict penalties if people are caught making false declarations to the registry, similar to fines and jail time for Canadians who evade income tax.

The federal government did recently amend the Canada Business Corporations Act to require federally incorporated companies to collect and record beneficial ownership information.

However, Comeau points out in his policy paper, “not only is that information not accessible by the public, it is not even accessible by law-enforcement agencies and competent authorities such as FINTRAC (Canada’s financial intelligence agency for money laundering) and the Canada Revenue Agency.”

In an interview with the Toronto Star, B.C. Finance Minister Carole James warned that B.C.’s land-ownership registry could push more dirty money into other jurisdictions, such as the Toronto real-estate market, which experts say is already vulnerable to money laundering.

“As other countries strengthen their laws, we’re at risk,” Comeau said. “If you put in fines and meaningful prison time … the money launderers want to stay away from jurisdictions with strong enforcement.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...CbTWt8GFSVA76o
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted May 7, 2019, 11:08 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,687
And another shoe drops:

Money laundering is taking place in the luxury car market in B.C., sometimes with the use of bags of cash, a second B.C. government report on money laundering has found.

“Today’s report, as I understand it, is the first detailed examination of money laundering through luxury car sales in Canada. The review found car dealers in B.C. freely reporting individuals bringing bags of money or orchestrating multiple, small international wire transfers to different accounts in order to buy luxury vehicles,” said B.C. Attorney General David Eby.

“Individuals with high-level criminal records are alleged to be principals of several used luxury dealerships in the province,” added Eby...

...The second report does not find how much is being laundered through luxury cars in B.C., and German says it would be almost impossible to put a number to it.

He did say, however, that cash transactions are becoming less frequent, replaced by the use of foreign credit cards, which are also problematic because there is no transparency.

German recounted one instance in which a one-of-a-kind luxury vehicle was purchased with a bag of $240,000 in cash. Two staff members accompanied the seller to the dealer’s bank because they were concerned about transporting that much cash.

The bank accepted the money because it is not illegal to do so from a business such as a luxury car dealer, said German...


https://vancouversun.com/business/lo...in-real-estate
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 12:13 AM
Vin Vin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,355
What a weird way to launder money in depreciating assets. These criminals need to attend Investment 101 courses.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 10:40 PM
rofina rofina is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
What a weird way to launder money in depreciating assets. These criminals need to attend Investment 101 courses.
McLarens, Lambos, etc, particularly the limited run rare ones tend to appreciate in cost not depreciate.

A basic new 911 or whatever, is not the same.

And even then - if you take a 20% hit, seems like a pretty reasonable "tax" to pay.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 10:45 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
What a weird way to launder money in depreciating assets. These criminals need to attend Investment 101 courses.
I'm not sure you're in the position to be telling people buying those cars how to launder their millions.

Sometimes cars like that have huge taxes and tarrifs overseas, if you can even get them. That's why police have busted rings of car thieves stealing things like Jeep Cherokees and getting them on boats to the Middle East.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 11:27 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I'm not sure you're in the position to be telling people buying those cars how to launder their millions.

Sometimes cars like that have huge taxes and tarrifs overseas, if you can even get them. That's why police have busted rings of car thieves stealing things like Jeep Cherokees and getting them on boats to the Middle East.
The best way to launder money, that I'm pretty sure 80%+ use, has always been to own a business (like a laundromat or in Breaking Bad's case a car wash/chicken place) and launder your money through it as income. Laundering money this way, through stores, grocery shops, clothing stores, etc. is much less offensive to people and is unremarkable. You can also launder large amounts monthly in a regular fashion. If you've ever seen a business with few customers and wondered how do they manage to stay in business, there's a chance your looking at a laundering operation. I swear half of Parker Place is laundering operations.

Last edited by misher; May 9, 2019 at 12:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #153  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 12:01 AM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vin View Post
What a weird way to launder money in depreciating assets. These criminals need to attend Investment 101 courses.
Depreciating assets? You mean like Vancouver real estate?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #154  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 4:38 AM
Galaxy's Avatar
Galaxy Galaxy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by misher View Post
The best way to launder money, that I'm pretty sure 80%+ use, has always been to own a business (like a laundromat or in Breaking Bad's case a car wash/chicken place) and launder your money through it as income. Laundering money this way, through stores, grocery shops, clothing stores, etc. is much less offensive to people and is unremarkable. You can also launder large amounts monthly in a regular fashion. If you've ever seen a business with few customers and wondered how do they manage to stay in business, there's a chance your looking at a laundering operation. I swear half of Parker Place is laundering operations.
I hate to admit it but Misher is spot on this one. I know of many people who know people that own businesses primarily to do this so Misher definitely nailed it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 8:50 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,687
Over $7 Billion laundered in BC last year alone:

VICTORIA (NEWS 1130) – There has been a lot of speculation about just how much money is being laundered in B.C. Two new reports done for the government are giving us the bottom line.

$7.4 billion was laundered in this province last year, including $5 billion in real estate — resulting in a five per cent increase in home prices.

That $7.4-billion figure is a conservative estimate.

Five per cent might not seem like a lot, but German said, “If you’re looking at a concentrated area — where there’s been a lot of flipping, a lot of movement, a lot of unusual sales, a lot of over-market sales, a lot of private mortgages — then you start to wonder. One can only imagine the impact on residential housing in that area.”

This is some of the information in 538 pages of reports from former senior RCMP officer Peter German and Maureen Maloney, who have conducted investigations for the attorney general.

They describe their findings as shocking.

“Equally disturbing to me is the ease with which Dr. German and a very small team with very limited time and no access to confidential law enforcement records found literally thousands of specific properties and transactions that are high risk for money laundering, tax evasion, or both. One can only imagine what his team would have uncovered with access CPIC or PRIME-BC, law enforcement databases of criminal records and organized crime affiliated individuals,” Eby said...(bold mine)


https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/05...c-real-estate/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #156  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 3:17 AM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
Joshua B.
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 970
Okay I'll say it. A lot of money is being laundered in our economy but this spurs on the economy and keeps a lot of people employed. We are now dependent on illegal and shady money and it's way too late to do anything about it. Vancouver and Toronto risks becoming third-world hubs without real estate and development.

Let's just say the NDP wanted to get serious about tackling the issue. They would need the federal government to actually fund any initiate to tackle this. They would also need to do a legitimate re-haul of the RCMP and judicial system to at least prosecute those involved. You would need tens of billions of dollars and decades to do this.

A lot of people are happy about the influx of foreign money. Homeowners continue to reap the rewards off wisely investing, boomers actually get to retire sooner and millennials are entering the real estate, finance, development and tech sector.

I agree, what has happened is morally wrong and should have been stopped, but we are far too late to do anything here. Just like climate change, the time to act was 20+ years ago but we have to live with out decisions and adapt rather than take meaningless token steps to act.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 4:08 AM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
I think over 10 people on this forum said I was wrong when I said money laundering occurs across Canada and BC is not unique, nor is the problem likely to be worse here. Glad the recent report showed that it’s much worse across Canada and only plays a minor factor in our housing prices. https://twitter.com/chadskelton/stat...454535169?s=20
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #158  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 4:22 AM
nds88 nds88 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
Okay I'll say it. A lot of money is being laundered in our economy but this spurs on the economy and keeps a lot of people employed. We are now dependent on illegal and shady money and it's way too late to do anything about it. Vancouver and Toronto risks becoming third-world hubs without real estate and development.

Let's just say the NDP wanted to get serious about tackling the issue. They would need the federal government to actually fund any initiate to tackle this. They would also need to do a legitimate re-haul of the RCMP and judicial system to at least prosecute those involved. You would need tens of billions of dollars and decades to do this.

A lot of people are happy about the influx of foreign money. Homeowners continue to reap the rewards off wisely investing, boomers actually get to retire sooner and millennials are entering the real estate, finance, development and tech sector.

I agree, what has happened is morally wrong and should have been stopped, but we are far too late to do anything here. Just like climate change, the time to act was 20+ years ago but we have to live with out decisions and adapt rather than take meaningless token steps to act.
YES! I agree. I'm curious as to what they consider "money laundering". To me I interpret this as Breaking Bad style. Someone selling drugs for piles of cash then cleaning it through a business by being their own customer. Afterwards, using those business profits to buy things. Are there thousands of Walter Whites buying up property here? Is this money coming from cocaine, prostitution, bank robbers etc? Or is it people from China that built factories, started construction companies, made huge IPOs, or built other products/services that people pay them for legitimately? Now they want to put their money into a different asset class a la Vancouver property.

If someone built a factory in China, produces widgets that's sold back to us at Wal Mart, then makes millions doing so....what's the big deal? I'm assuming with China's rapid rise and new wealth, most of the money is from building cheap widgets that they sell back to us. How is someone that buys a home with cheap widget profits money laundering? They earned that money legitimately. I'm sure some of it may be from exporting illegal drug, but I highly doubt it makes up the bulk of property purchases.

I might have my definition of money laundering incorrect, but it sounds like the recent talking points about laundering is just a catch all phrase to make it sound scary. I'd also think that if this was a hot bed for money laundering of criminal proceeds like drugs, weapon trafficking, extortion etc....then Vancouver would be a hot spot for the criminal Kingpins and their family. If you want to take out your enemy, go next door, they're probably your neighbour. But we don't hear of targeted assassinations or see people roaming around surrounded by a dozen body guards.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 4:29 AM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 8,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by nds88 View Post
I might have my definition of money laundering incorrect, but it sounds like the recent talking points about laundering is just a catch all phrase to make it sound scary. I'd also think that if this was a hot bed for money laundering of criminal proceeds like drugs, weapon trafficking, extortion etc....then Vancouver would be a hot spot for the criminal Kingpins and their family. If you want to take out your enemy, go next door, they're probably your neighbour. But we don't hear of targeted assassinations or see people roaming around surrounded by a dozen body guards.
Not necessarily - stirring things up in two countries means you've got two sets of feds after you! Nah, if I were an international mob boss, I'd definitely want to have the crimes in one country, and the money from said crimes rinsed in a different country.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #160  
Old Posted May 10, 2019, 4:34 AM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Not necessarily - stirring things up in two countries means you've got two sets of feds after you! Nah, if I were an international mob boss, I'd definitely want to have the crimes in one country, and the money from said crimes rinsed in a different country.


I’m guessing yes and no. It really depends on the amount. Large bank transfers leaving the nation are pretty visible. And it’s pretty hard to bring in duffel bags of bills through customs. For larger amounts I assume it’s better to launder it in the same country but not the same city.

If you manage to get the money across international borders I think it’s already ready to be spent.

From the recent report most money earned illegally here is laundered here. But it makes sense that people
committing crimes who have already laundered money buy property in places without extradition treaties.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Business & the Economy
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:44 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.