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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2022, 1:13 AM
JoeyColeman JoeyColeman is offline
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Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple View Post
The developer for this project is applying for some minor variances:

1) To permit a setback of 2.9m for Floor 5 from the King Street West facade
2) To permit a 2.5 setback from Floor 5 from the Hypotenuse of the Daylight Triangle.
3) To permit a setback of 0.0m for floors 6-13 from the hypotenuse of the Daylight Triangle.
4) To permit a setback of 2.5m for floors 6-13 from King Street West facade.
5) A rear yard setback of 8.2m is provided from the building to the rear lot line and the portion of the building containing indoor amenity space whereas 11.2m is required.
6) To permit a minimum parking stall size of 2.5m by 5.0m for any above ground or underground parking structure when parking is provided by means of a parking stacker system, whereas a minimum stall size of 2.6m by 5.5m is required.

The application was approved.
They are approved to apply for the variances.

A small distinction. (In the end, the variances will be approved)

The Planning Act prohibits applying for variances within two years of a Council zoning approval, unless the Council grants permission to apply.

With Chief Planner Robichaud stating his supports allowing the application to proceed, I expect staff comments will be favourable.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 12:02 PM
urban_planner urban_planner is offline
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The existing building is on fire.

https://twitter.com/Box43Pio/status/...4CKpcWg5A&s=19
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Last edited by urban_planner; Jun 18, 2022 at 12:12 PM.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 1:50 PM
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This will require a complete redesign. Building's destroyed. https://twitter.com/ACollinsPhoto/st...dMQk9oboZy33Xg

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  #4  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 1:48 PM
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Interesting how this keeps happening at buildings in Hamilton that addicts are camping out in....
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  #5  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 1:56 PM
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They were already going to demolish the building. So this doesn't really matter. What is unfortunate is that they were planning on using some historical items inside the building (tiles and things) for the new project. Hopefully that isn't too damaged.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 1:59 PM
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Historical buildings are notoriously expensive to integrate into new buildings. I'm curious if this fire and resulting redesign now makes the site less costly to develop...
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  #7  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2022, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
Historical buildings are notoriously expensive to integrate into new buildings. I'm curious if this fire and resulting redesign now makes the site less costly to develop...
The developer already determined a while ago that it would be too expensive to redevelop the existing heritage building. It was simply in too poor a state to save. They decided on full demolition of the existing structure with approval from the city. The new design will pay tribute to the old building, but it will be a completely new structure.

If anything this fire may speed up the construction timeline?
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  #8  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 2:05 AM
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The aftermath.

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  #9  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 3:48 PM
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these '"suspicious" fires in future development sites happen far too often. This sort of thing happens a lot in Ontario..
Not a loss for this building as it was ugly af... but I've seen several beautiful heritage buildings and churches on sites of future developments that have met a very similar fate unfortunately.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 905er View Post
these '"suspicious" fires in future development sites happen far too often. This sort of thing happens a lot in Ontario..
Not a loss for this building as it was ugly af... but I've seen several beautiful heritage buildings and churches on sites of future developments that have met a very similar fate unfortunately.
Unfortunately it's caused by drug addicts squating inside, using cooking equipment or drug paraphernalia. I wish these developers would do more to protect their vacant sites, and the city would do more to crack down on the ridiculous behaviour the junkies bring to our downtown.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2022, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple View Post
Unfortunately it's caused by drug addicts squating inside, using cooking equipment or drug paraphernalia. I wish these developers would do more to protect their vacant sites, and the city would do more to crack down on the ridiculous behaviour the junkies bring to our downtown.
It's too early to lay blame on specific people. But no surprise it's a "suspicious" fire:

Massive blaze at century-old Hamilton Store Fixtures deemed suspicious: police
The iconic brown metal clad building is now a mere pit of rubble after a massive blaze early Saturday morning flattened its foundation.

https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/2...ious-fire.html
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...ious-fire.html

If people are determined enough they will get in, whether they're seeking shelter or to vandalize and cause destruction. Even round-the-clock security won't stop them -- I don't know what solutions would work.

Thankfully nobody was hurt (that we know of). Had this happened during a busy time of day with more activity on the streets and surrounding businesses that could have been very different, even with roads blocked off.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2022, 3:22 PM
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Cameras and sensors seems pretty easy to monitor and action if there's trespassers, no?
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  #13  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 4:05 PM
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It’s often due to squatters. Some developers do better jobs of keeping them out than others, but I’ve spoken to some developers in Toronto who have a hell of a time keeping them out of their buildings. Fencing, boarding up entrances, etc don’t help often.

In this case particularly the building was due to be demolished anyway so I doubt this was intentional.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2022, 10:00 PM
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crazy, I was literally just standing in front of that building waiting for the bus on thursday.. tbh I always kinda hated the state that building was in, esp after that storm that ripped off the paneling and made it look junky - at least before it still felt functional.. so I am happy it's being demolished and rebuilt. I mean it's brick and stone, it's not that hard to redesign a building the exact same way, so no need - in fact for many of these buildings they should demolish the entire brick area and rebrick it with new clean brick so that it lasts longer.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 12:03 AM
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It's the letting mentally unwell and drug addicted individuals walk around in the state they are in that is cruel. I just personally think we need a more heavy handed approach to giving them the help that they need. Because they are not in the correct state of mind to help themselves. I don't think they're a pest, I think they deserve respect and need help and I believe the system we have in place currently only makes things worse. I also think the system we have in place now completely lacks respect for these people, and only gives them the tools they need to further cause damage to themselves and the community.

We had a presumably mentally unwell individual burn down a historic building in the heart of the city this week, only to be released back into the public 24 hrs later. And to call that out for how ridiculous it really is, you'll be branded 'hateful'. These people need help, and help does not come in the form of leniancy in my opinion.

I walk around downtown all the time, and I see people in various states of complete psychosis due to drugs. It's sad, I feel for these people. I think to myself, that's someones daughter, son, brother. And we just allow them to continue in that state? Harming themselves and our community as a whole. We give them needles, food, tents, etc, so that they can just stay that way? Wandering around the streets in a drug fueled haze? It would be nice to see our health system take a more 'tough love' approach and actually help these people out, rather than these soft and useless approaches we have now.

Sorry if I touched a nerve Matt602. But this is how I feel about the topic.

Last edited by TheHonestMaple; Jun 24, 2022 at 12:30 AM.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2022, 2:28 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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Using dehumanizing terms like "nuisance" "bum" "druggie" "addicted littering the street" is toxic and does nothing to help the situation. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to explain the ways in which dog whistles for dehumanizing and having a complete lack of compassion for these people are being done.

Words matter, intent matters and outcomes matter. Like the term "old stock Canadians" not technically being racially insensitive, it's clear what the term is meant to invoke. Same as alt-right idealogues describing "the good old days". It's important to be careful in how you talk about others, and call out when you feel a group is being disrespected otherwise we risk making the mistakes of the past where we've dehumanized an entire group of people and aimed to remove them in various ways.

We already see problems where people aim to simply "move these people somewhere away" without recognizing that solves approximately nothing. Saying things like "just get a job" or "just put them in an institution" or "police should arrest and fine these people" seem to forget that the houseless, mentally ill and drug addicted folks live outside your societal norms and won't necessarily be incentivized or disincentivized the same ways you or I will. An arrest keeps me from doing anything illegal because I have my family, my house, my job my life to lose. These people have nothing, and aiming to take more away in the pursuit of solving the problem isn't really a solution.

We've been trying "tough love" for decades now, and yet the problem hasn't gotten better. I'm not disagreeing that some members of the community will refuse to join society when given the resources and option to, but that is a small minority of people, that has been artificially expanded because of a lack of resources. Talk to these people and recognize they didn't have a family support, some sound like they were never taught to take care of themselves and remember how hard it is for you as an adult to form new positive habits. Shit it's hard enough for most people to eat healthy, go to the gym, and not procrastinate. Imagine trying to get your life together with absolutely no reason to. Everytime you try you're back on the street, sleeping in the cold, or barely sleeping at that, you're told to go to a shelter where people scream, fight and the police ears there constantly.

I recognize I'm talking about this from a place of incredible privilege, with my health, my house, my job, and money that allows me to do nearly everything I like. Do you recognize that? And if so, do you speak about these marginalized people in such a way that respects the vast canyon of difference between your experiences in life and theirs?

The thing I find ironic is that people will dehumanize the homeless and the drug addicted until it's their family or friend, when all of a sudden they recognize it's the system. Pray you never have a family member or friend fall into the grips of homelessness and drug addiction, and know that if you do, they at least have you, because many have nobody.

Now get this shit back on topic, and stop speaking I'll of the homeless and drug addicted. Create a shit on homeless people thread on the main forum if you'd like, otherwise keep it to buildings and shit. I don't come here to read drivel about those lesser than us. Pick on someone your own size.
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  #17  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2022, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
Using dehumanizing terms like "nuisance" "bum" "druggie" "addicted littering the street" is toxic and does nothing to help the situation. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to explain the ways in which dog whistles for dehumanizing and having a complete lack of compassion for these people are being done.

Words matter, intent matters and outcomes matter. Like the term "old stock Canadians" not technically being racially insensitive, it's clear what the term is meant to invoke. Same as alt-right idealogues describing "the good old days". It's important to be careful in how you talk about others, and call out when you feel a group is being disrespected otherwise we risk making the mistakes of the past where we've dehumanized an entire group of people and aimed to remove them in various ways.

We already see problems where people aim to simply "move these people somewhere away" without recognizing that solves approximately nothing. Saying things like "just get a job" or "just put them in an institution" or "police should arrest and fine these people" seem to forget that the houseless, mentally ill and drug addicted folks live outside your societal norms and won't necessarily be incentivized or disincentivized the same ways you or I will. An arrest keeps me from doing anything illegal because I have my family, my house, my job my life to lose. These people have nothing, and aiming to take more away in the pursuit of solving the problem isn't really a solution.

We've been trying "tough love" for decades now, and yet the problem hasn't gotten better. I'm not disagreeing that some members of the community will refuse to join society when given the resources and option to, but that is a small minority of people, that has been artificially expanded because of a lack of resources. Talk to these people and recognize they didn't have a family support, some sound like they were never taught to take care of themselves and remember how hard it is for you as an adult to form new positive habits. Shit it's hard enough for most people to eat healthy, go to the gym, and not procrastinate. Imagine trying to get your life together with absolutely no reason to. Everytime you try you're back on the street, sleeping in the cold, or barely sleeping at that, you're told to go to a shelter where people scream, fight and the police ears there constantly.

I recognize I'm talking about this from a place of incredible privilege, with my health, my house, my job, and money that allows me to do nearly everything I like. Do you recognize that? And if so, do you speak about these marginalized people in such a way that respects the vast canyon of difference between your experiences in life and theirs?

The thing I find ironic is that people will dehumanize the homeless and the drug addicted until it's their family or friend, when all of a sudden they recognize it's the system. Pray you never have a family member or friend fall into the grips of homelessness and drug addiction, and know that if you do, they at least have you, because many have nobody.

Now get this shit back on topic, and stop speaking I'll of the homeless and drug addicted. Create a shit on homeless people thread on the main forum if you'd like, otherwise keep it to buildings and shit. I don't come here to read drivel about those lesser than us. Pick on someone your own size.
You say all that, yet you don't present a better idea of how to solve the issue -- encouraging them into rehab seems pretty reasonable, especially if there's no better option/alternative

Anyways, hopefully this gets built as proposed and with high quality materials
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  #18  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2022, 5:45 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
Using dehumanizing terms like "nuisance" "bum" "druggie" "addicted littering the street" is toxic and does nothing to help the situation. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to explain the ways in which dog whistles for dehumanizing and having a complete lack of compassion for these people are being done.
I literally have never used any of those terms. Ever. Why are you trying so hard to disparage me? I simply pointed out some flaws in our current ways of dealing with the issues in our city, and you're now claiming im making dog whistles? What the heck, man.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2022, 6:35 PM
atnor atnor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
Using dehumanizing terms like "nuisance" "bum" "druggie" "addicted littering the street" is toxic and does nothing to help the situation. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to explain the ways in which dog whistles for dehumanizing and having a complete lack of compassion for these people are being done.

Words matter, intent matters and outcomes matter. Like the term "old stock Canadians" not technically being racially insensitive, it's clear what the term is meant to invoke. Same as alt-right idealogues describing "the good old days". It's important to be careful in how you talk about others, and call out when you feel a group is being disrespected otherwise we risk making the mistakes of the past where we've dehumanized an entire group of people and aimed to remove them in various ways.

We already see problems where people aim to simply "move these people somewhere away" without recognizing that solves approximately nothing. Saying things like "just get a job" or "just put them in an institution" or "police should arrest and fine these people" seem to forget that the houseless, mentally ill and drug addicted folks live outside your societal norms and won't necessarily be incentivized or disincentivized the same ways you or I will. An arrest keeps me from doing anything illegal because I have my family, my house, my job my life to lose. These people have nothing, and aiming to take more away in the pursuit of solving the problem isn't really a solution.

We've been trying "tough love" for decades now, and yet the problem hasn't gotten better. I'm not disagreeing that some members of the community will refuse to join society when given the resources and option to, but that is a small minority of people, that has been artificially expanded because of a lack of resources. Talk to these people and recognize they didn't have a family support, some sound like they were never taught to take care of themselves and remember how hard it is for you as an adult to form new positive habits. Shit it's hard enough for most people to eat healthy, go to the gym, and not procrastinate. Imagine trying to get your life together with absolutely no reason to. Everytime you try you're back on the street, sleeping in the cold, or barely sleeping at that, you're told to go to a shelter where people scream, fight and the police ears there constantly.

I recognize I'm talking about this from a place of incredible privilege, with my health, my house, my job, and money that allows me to do nearly everything I like. Do you recognize that? And if so, do you speak about these marginalized people in such a way that respects the vast canyon of difference between your experiences in life and theirs?

The thing I find ironic is that people will dehumanize the homeless and the drug addicted until it's their family or friend, when all of a sudden they recognize it's the system. Pray you never have a family member or friend fall into the grips of homelessness and drug addiction, and know that if you do, they at least have you, because many have nobody.

Now get this shit back on topic, and stop speaking I'll of the homeless and drug addicted. Create a shit on homeless people thread on the main forum if you'd like, otherwise keep it to buildings and shit. I don't come here to read drivel about those lesser than us. Pick on someone your own size.
We recognize the huge difficulty and near impossibility to pull yourself from chronic homelessness and addiction alone. We also recognize some don’t operate in the same mindset as we do, which is understandable. If we accept these assumptions, how on earth is it speaking ill or shitting on the homeless to suggest they should be taken from the streets and given treatment?

Of course I don’t want to see homeless people but unlike you I actually care about the homeless and want to see action to have them improve through supervised treatment. Alternatively, you want empty notions of compassion and language to improve their situation.

Still no one spoke to THM’s post about Portugal’s addiction program. Instead you and Stec got hung up on choice of words as if that negates any merit to this discussion. Be more charitable to others.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2022, 6:38 PM
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What gets me is the crowd calling for compassion ends the discussion there and then act as if they are the moral authority on the matter.
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