Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

This is great info... thanks LRT!

On my quick scan it certainly appears it will just be a *wee* bit too dense for the curved connection

... but why do you rule out double-tracking Trillium ??

I just get this feeling that it won't be successful in moving people downtown and the Trillium Line will remain mostly a student mover. As long as there is no direct service to downtown, the Southeast Transitway will continue to dominate especially for those originating in the Hunt Club area. And I have no confidence in the current expansion plan and the potentially complicated train movements that I expect will have a further negative affect on reliability. It is crazy to expect people from Riverside South and Findlay Creek to have to take one bus and three trains to travel to and from downtown. And of course, there is no plans to double track in the foreseeable future anyways. We are setting ourselves up for failure. And as long as ridership is underwhelming, there will be little pressure to double track, which will have a much higher price tag than it did in 2006.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I just get this feeling that it won't be successful in moving people downtown and the Trillium Line will remain mostly a student mover. As long as there is no direct service to downtown, the Southeast Transitway will continue to dominate especially for those originating in the Hunt Club area. And I have no confidence in the current expansion plan and the potentially complicated train movements that I expect will have a further negative affect on reliability. It is crazy to expect people from Riverside South and Findlay Creek to have to take one bus and three trains to travel to and from downtown. And of course, there is no plans to double track in the foreseeable future anyways. We are setting ourselves up for failure. And as long as ridership is underwhelming, there will be little pressure to double track, which will have a much higher price tag than it did in 2006.

We can only hope that the City of Gatineau starts to see the benefit of the Trillium Line crossing and being double-tracked. If the Government of Quebec got on board, maybe Ontario's would hop on too. There is great potential in connecting downtown Gatineau to the growing population in Little Italy, not to mention that students could choose to live on either side of the river and commute across depending on where they go to school. Would also be a good way to connect 18 year old Carleton students with the night-life in a quick and effective manner.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Radster

What about MOOSE? Are they not planning on using the POW bridge?

The O-Train tracks are no longer connected to the POW bridge, here's a photo I took earlier in the Fall showing the rails have been cut when they were putting in the new path:



When they build the new Bayview station, it will be difficult for heavy rail to make up for the level change between the bridge and station.

And seriously, how would they work around the Trillium Line "schedule"?

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Their first like will be from the southwest (Stitsville). Although they are planning on running their North lines on the POW bridge, they haven't been granted access to the bridge and have mainly only been rallying against its conversion into a pedestrian bridge.

They are not planning on going to Stittsville even though this would make a better route to Arnprior via Pakenham, Almonte and Carleton Place than via Kanata North and Carp. This is probably due to the fact that the rail has been ripped up when Via service stopped in 1990. Moose has a revised website with maps showing their planned routes as follows:

http://www.letsgomoose.ca

With respect to the bridge, the Trillium line falls under Transport Canada's jurisdiction so use of the POW bridge and trackage rights cannot be totally denied. I think in the court of public opinion people will be in favour of this rather than Ottawa's attempts to convert it to a multi use pathway.

[McC]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

TWith respect to the bridge, the Trillium line falls under Transport Canada's jurisdiction so use of the POW bridge and trackage rights cannot be totally denied. I think in the court of public opinion people will be in favour of this rather than Ottawa's attempts to convert it to a multi use pathway.

It would be the Canadian Transportation Agency that would rule on running rights.

See s.138 of the Canada Transportation Act: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...e-49.html#h-71.

Also relevant here are ss.140-146 regarding the rules for discontinuing a rail line (as I've said previously, I don't believe that this is a process which the City has actually completed yet)

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

They are not planning on going to Stittsville even though this would make a better route to Arnprior via Pakenham, Almonte and Carleton Place than via Kanata North and Carp. This is probably due to the fact that the rail has been ripped up when Via service stopped in 1990. Moose has a revised website with maps showing their planned routes as follows:

http://www.letsgomoose.ca

With respect to the bridge, the Trillium line falls under Transport Canada's jurisdiction so use of the POW bridge and trackage rights cannot be totally denied. I think in the court of public opinion people will be in favour of this rather than Ottawa's attempts to convert it to a multi use pathway.

Sorry I got mixed up. I meant Smiths Falls. Smiths Falls is where they have been doing most of their lobbying.

I really feel that the consortium needs to somehow boost their media image. Most people in the NCR don't even know about this project. It will be a huge failure if no one knows a train is running.

[Richard Eade]

I must admit that I was a bit surprised when I read the 3-year Plan of the City’s rail assets. (http://www.octranspo1.com/images/fil...sh_Revised.pdf) It lists only the line from the PoW Bridge to Leitrim Road, inclusive. Does the City not own several other sections of rail corridors that they have taken the rails off of? I am thinking of the Osgoode Trail and the trail from Bells Corners to Bridlewood (and there might be others). Have those corridors been formally discontinued as rail lines?

When the City says that it is planning to "retain" the PoW Bridge, does it mean that it is not selling it, or does it mean that it is being retained as an active rail line? (The 'Plan' doesn't actually mention the word 'active'.) Does an active rail line need to be connected to surrounding lines and maintained in good repair? Is it a waist of money to keep a bridge in top condition if it never gets used? Is it cheaper to let it rot and only rebuild it if needed? When the City says that it "intends to continue the current operation of these railway lines." does that mean its current operation of the PoW Bridge; i.e., letting it rot away?

[zzptichka]

What we know is that City decided not to convert PoW bridge into MUP for now and funding has been reallocated.
Maybe they are waiting for the proposal from MOOSE to run trains over it. Maybe they already have some sort of tentative agreement.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What we know is that City decided not to convert PoW bridge into MUP for now and funding has been reallocated.
Maybe they are waiting for the proposal from MOOSE to run trains over it. Maybe they already have some sort of tentative agreement.

MOOSE is a fantasy.

[emannigol]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

http://ottawa.ca/sites/default/files...13_final-s.pdf

This pretty well confirms that the option to merge the Confederation Line and the Trillium Line will not happen in the future.

This also likely delays any possibility of double tracking of the Trillium Line for decades.

I disagree. Look at the concept photo on page 40. It shows interlining.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by emannigol

I disagree. Look at the concept photo on page 40. It shows interlining.

I see what you are seeing but that is an awfully tight turn and you have a significant difference in grade between the two lines as well. Is this practical for interlining? And can this be implemented later without interrupting service on the Confederation Line? My impression was that if interlining was to take place in the future, a more gentle curve would be preserved and Bayview station would have been built further to the east with space allocated from day one for the two lines to merge.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by emannigol

I disagree. Look at the concept photo on page 40. It shows interlining.

Those appear to be old base images. (Remember, that CDP study went on for years so some of the concepts are quite old.) There was, at one time, the consideration to include interlining, but that, apparently, was too complex for the money that was ear-marked. There was also consideration for not-in-service Trillium Line vehicles to be moved to/from the Confederation Line's service yard, but I believe that that has also been abandoned, in favour of separate service facilities at Walkley and/or Bowesville. (Those tight-radius ramps shown in the concept images were for vehicles that were out-of-service.)

Based on the renderings available, the Bayview Station is not being designed with any interlining capability, and will allow only a single Trillium Line platform/track. It is, according to the pictures, being designed to be the north terminal station for the Trillium Line.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Those appear to be old base images. (Remember, that CDP study went on for years so some of the concepts are quite old.) There was, at one time, the consideration to include interlining, but that, apparently, was too complex for the money that was ear-marked. There was also consideration for not-in-service Trillium Line vehicles to be moved to/from the Confederation Line's service yard, but I believe that that has also been abandoned, in favour of separate service facilities at Walkley and/or Bowesville. (Those tight-radius ramps shown in the concept images were for vehicles that were out-of-service.)

Based on the renderings available, the Bayview Station is not being designed with any interlining capability, and will allow only a single Trillium Line platform/track. It is, according to the pictures, being designed to be the north terminal station for the Trillium Line.

If it is so designed, that is urban planning malfeasance on an epic scale.

[1overcosc]

I like the idea of having the Trillium Line someday continue downtown on a separate route. We might need two downtown subways someday, in which case the Trillium Line could be extended downtown as the second route instead of interlining with the current one.

[Aylmer]

I'm still hoping that the Trillium line is eventually looped around by Hull, down the Alexandra Bridge and terminating at the old Hull Electric terminus under the Plaza Bridge between old Union and the Chateau Laurier.

When the time comes for a second subway, let's make it Bank Street.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm still hoping that the Trillium line is eventually looped around by Hull, down the Alexandra Bridge and terminating at the old Hull Electric terminus under the Plaza Bridge between old Union and the Chateau Laurier.

When the time comes for a second subway, let's make it Bank Street.

That ship has sailed back in 1966 when the Alexandra Bridge ceased being a railway bridge. I can't imagine the walkway and bike route on the west side of the bridge would ever be returned to even tram service.

[Aylmer]

Neither can I. But I can imagine the car lanes getting removed

[rocketphish]

City to install $250,000 gates on Prince of Wales bridge to block access

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 12, 2016 | Last Updated: August 12, 2016 7:54 PM EDT



Catch the sunset while you still can — the city is planning to install large, steel gates to prevent people from getting onto the Prince of Wales Bridge.

The city’s plan is to spend $250,000 on the barriers, said Coun. Jeff Leiper, who’d rather see the city invest in making the popular spot safer.

The Kitchissippi rep said he and Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney learned several months ago about the infrastructure department’s plan to block access to the bridge by installing steel gates at either end. Fences currently used to block access to the decommissioned rail bridge spanning the Ottawa River are repeatedly pulled down by people wanting to cross to the Gatineau side or enjoy spectacular views of the river at sunset.

Leiper and McKenney have no authority to halt the plans but “objected in very strong terms,” he said. “The answer to addressing safety risks on this bridge is to properly upgrade it, not to close it.”

Reached on Friday, the city could not provide comment on plans for the bridge.

At one time, the city had money set aside to upgrade the bridge, but the cash was diverted late last year to the proposed Fifth-Clegg bridge over the Rideau Canal, which Mayor Jim Watson has described as “our No. 1 priority” for a foot bridge.

The estimated cost of fixing up the Prince of Wales Bridge — $10.5 million — was more expensive than anticipated and the city never reached an agreement with the City of Gatineau and National Capital Commission to split the costs of construction (even though the NCC’s recently released 50-year plan for the capital calls for the creation of a multi-use path across the bridge to connect Ottawa and Gatineau).

“This is an asset we should be making maximum use of,” Leiper said. “Those river views are hard to come by.”

Leiper says he’s not aware of a history of serious incidents or injuries on the bridge. Instead, he sees it as a popular summer destination that saw its fame increase after a picture of a couple enjoying a romantic dinner went viral last year.

“When we’re looking at the allocation of city resources, the expenditure of a quarter-million dollars is pretty substantial to address a non-existent problem,” he said.

Police warned the public last year after a pair of swarmings on or near the bridge. And that may have worried the federal government, which, according to Leiper, asked the city to close off the bridge permanently.

In one incident, three teenagers walking across the bridge towards Ottawa were confronted by a group of up to five others, who rushed at them and demanded any valuables. While running away from the attackers, one of the victims jumped over the guard rail, falling onto a pathway below and injuring his lower leg.

A second robbery two days later didn’t happen on the bridge, but on a bike path that passes underneath it.

It’s not clear when the gates will be installed. Leiper said he did not know if the project had gone out to tender.

[email protected]
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...o-block-access

[rocketphish]

Hmm... it seems that we have two very similar threads on the subject of the Prince of Wales Bridge. Mods, I'd like to propose merging these... what do you think?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=214731

[Buggys]

W T F.... Just... wow.... What a proposed waste of money.

People cross the current barriers at their own risk.

There are much better uses for this $. How about putting it towards adding barriers so people don't fall off the side of the bridge? Or adding boards across the top of the rail tracks so that people can safely bike or walk across?