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  #141  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 5:29 PM
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^New county commissioner...Diane Linn wanted to get the courthouse project started. Wheeler realizes there isn't a scrap of money to be found for the new courthouse...right now anyway.
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  #142  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 5:35 PM
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Dan Petrusich, president of Melvin Mark Development Co., says his company has a signed contract with the James Beard Public Market, and that group has a “10-year head start” on the idea. If Gerding Edlen wanted to do a market there, “They’d have to go start their own public market foundation,” Petrusich says.
ummm...sure. I can't believe Ron Paul is still associated with this.
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  #143  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 5:39 PM
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↑↑ Curious....What is your problem with Ron Paul?
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  #144  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:37 PM
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Great!

I like the Specht proposal. I would love to see more high-rises and high density housing in downtown. Local business would benefit greatly by local residents of downtown if we transform downtown into a place to live as well as work.
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  #145  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 1:59 AM
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I personally do not like this as the location for a Pike Place/ Fanueil Hall style market: the site is sandwiched between freeway-esque ramps, below street level Max underpass, and Front Avenue (the illegal, behind closed doors renamed historic street most know as Naito). No one apparently remembers that a waterfront location of a public market had already existed and FAILED miserably and was only open for 9 years before closing.

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Pike/ Fanueil's success is there location, location, location. The only real location for a public market is.... Saturday Market! Well, where it used to be next to the original public market The New Market Theater building, yes it was a public market in 1872! Too bad Ankeny plaza is now a lost opportunity thanks to PDC and Mercy Corps... or another good location would be in the HEART of Portland right next to Pioneer CH Square... wait, we already have one! Pioneer Place Mall... (err, national brands only there, guess that doesn't count) ... or, you can just look at market demand and look where rows and rows of roach coaches line up. Lots of parking lots to choose from in awesome locations thanks to Mr. Goodman. Well, they could revamp Big Pink's lowrise to be an indoor market, but there are current leases to consider... regardless, my point is that under the Morrison Bridge is a terrible place for a public market.
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  #146  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 3:01 AM
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↑ That is a matter of opinion. Some will agree....some will not.
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  #147  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 3:18 AM
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Originally Posted by NJD View Post
I personally do not like this as the location for a Pike Place/ Fanueil Hall style market: the site is sandwiched between freeway-esque ramps, below street level Max underpass, and Front Avenue (the illegal, behind closed doors renamed historic street most know as Naito). No one apparently remembers that a waterfront location of a public market had already existed and FAILED miserably and was only open for 9 years before closing.

wikipedia

Pike/ Fanueil's success is there location, location, location. The only real location for a public market is.... Saturday Market! Well, where it used to be next to the original public market The New Market Theater building, yes it was a public market in 1872! Too bad Ankeny plaza is now a lost opportunity thanks to PDC and Mercy Corps... or another good location would be in the HEART of Portland right next to Pioneer CH Square... wait, we already have one! Pioneer Place Mall... (err, national brands only there, guess that doesn't count) ... or, you can just look at market demand and look where rows and rows of roach coaches line up. Lots of parking lots to choose from in awesome locations thanks to Mr. Goodman. Well, they could revamp Big Pink's lowrise to be an indoor market, but there are current leases to consider... regardless, my point is that under the Morrison Bridge is a terrible place for a public market.
How is a waterfront location under the Burnside Bridge better than a waterfront location under the Morrison Bridge? I think 3 full contiguous blocks under the Morrison is far better than a smattering of small open areas around Skidmore Fountain. It's also more centrally located to downtown and the retail areas.
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  #148  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 4:23 AM
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I'm against demolishing one of our historic surface parking lots to build a building
That was great.
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  #149  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NJD View Post
I personally do not like this as the location for a Pike Place/ Fanueil Hall style market: the site is sandwiched between freeway-esque ramps, below street level Max underpass, and Front Avenue (the illegal, behind closed doors renamed historic street most know as Naito). No one apparently remembers that a waterfront location of a public market had already existed and FAILED miserably and was only open for 9 years before closing.

wikipedia

Pike/ Fanueil's success is there location, location, location. The only real location for a public market is.... Saturday Market! Well, where it used to be next to the original public market The New Market Theater building, yes it was a public market in 1872! Too bad Ankeny plaza is now a lost opportunity thanks to PDC and Mercy Corps... or another good location would be in the HEART of Portland right next to Pioneer CH Square... wait, we already have one! Pioneer Place Mall... (err, national brands only there, guess that doesn't count) ... or, you can just look at market demand and look where rows and rows of roach coaches line up. Lots of parking lots to choose from in awesome locations thanks to Mr. Goodman. Well, they could revamp Big Pink's lowrise to be an indoor market, but there are current leases to consider... regardless, my point is that under the Morrison Bridge is a terrible place for a public market.
I agree that somewhere within a block of Pioneer Sq or under the Burnside bridge would be ideal locations, but this one seems pretty good too - next to the MAX stop at OAK, just four blocks from Pioneer Sq along flat terrain - in fact, no, I think this site is probably better than under the Burnside. Also, wasn't the public market in the 40's across Harbor Drive from downtown? That would be an obvious barrier to its success.
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  #150  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 5:07 PM
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^ nope, it was the exact same location, but without the new Morrison Bridge and its 2 full block ramp loops and 4 block barriers.

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My point is that the surrounding, connecting and direct streetscapes are not welcoming, sightseeing, safe, nor comfortable spaces which, from an urban design standpoint, are some of the most important factors for a public place. Where are people going to enter? From multiple directions? Where? The Alder and 2nd on-ramp where they removed the crosswalk entirely for auto traffic? Maybe Alder and 1st with the non-ADA stairway down the MAX tracks? Washington and 2nd where autos barrel into downtown from I-5? Maybe Stark or Morrison, no wait, freeway style on/off-ramp loops block entire blocks and the respective 1st Avenue sides as well. Oh Oh, let them enter from the now removed former crosswalk under the bridge from Waterfront Park so they can cross 5 lanes of auto traffic. The corners along Naito at Stark and Morrison where you have to crisscross 6 lanes of traffic and a on/off-ramp lane? Through a new block-long building along 2nd sandwiched between 2 very busy on-ramps where there are only 2 of any blocks 8 potential crosswalk connections?

Yes, it would be nice if something existed on those 4 full blocks other than surface parking lots and 1958-style auto-oriented bridge ramps... but a public market is not the answer at that location, not at least until all 4 blocks' ramps are removed (not just redesigned and band-aided).
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  #151  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 8:35 PM
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I'm so torn about this one. On the one hand, I love love love the idea of a market like this right in downtown along the waterfront. But then I look at the six blocks immediately in front of it and it reminds me why I never approach Waterfront Park from that spot. This could be a huge opportunity to fix that chunk of downtown which is otherwise wasted but potentially amazing land.

But... is it realistic to think the west side of the Morrison Bridge could be changed? ...or? Or what? I don't know.

It's Six Friggin' Blocks! Wasted. God, that's a massive chunk of downtown. Wasted.

If putting a market here as proposed above would somehow fix that or at least change how all of those blocks are utilized... what a huge positive change for our city. But is it realistic? I don't know.

I hope so.
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  #152  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 10:10 PM
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^ agreed.
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  #153  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2010, 10:24 PM
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I'm so torn about this one. On the one hand, I love love love the idea of a market like this right in downtown along the waterfront. But then I look at the six blocks immediately in front of it and it reminds me why I never approach Waterfront Park from that spot. This could be a huge opportunity to fix that chunk of downtown which is otherwise wasted but potentially amazing land.

But... is it realistic to think the west side of the Morrison Bridge could be changed? ...or? Or what? I don't know.

It's Six Friggin' Blocks! Wasted. God, that's a massive chunk of downtown. Wasted.

If putting a market here as proposed above would somehow fix that or at least change how all of those blocks are utilized... what a huge positive change for our city. But is it realistic? I don't know.

I hope so.
I count 5 blocks, which one is the 6th block you are counting? And yes, I do agree with you. Though it would seem like it would make sense to remove the two off ramps, then using Stark and Morrison as alternatives, or removing the least used of the on ramps to at least open up some new land to develop. Then with the Morrison Bridge, there could easily be a sort of under/over type development that consumes those 5 blocks. Over Washington on the two blocks on the west and under the Morrison Bridge for the three blocks to the east.
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  #154  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2010, 1:41 AM
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I count 5 blocks, which one is the 6th block you are counting? And yes, I do agree with you. Though it would seem like it would make sense to remove the two off ramps, then using Stark and Morrison as alternatives, or removing the least used of the on ramps to at least open up some new land to develop. Then with the Morrison Bridge, there could easily be a sort of under/over type development that consumes those 5 blocks. Over Washington on the two blocks on the west and under the Morrison Bridge for the three blocks to the east.
You're right. It's five, not six. Oops! Still, five city blocks in downtown. That's a lot of wasted potential.
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  #155  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2010, 3:46 AM
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Completely agree with NJD. This chunk of downtown needs seriuous help, but I think I'd rather see a number of high-rise office towers than anything.

I can't help but compare this public market idea to Granville Island - Pike Place Market is so different, and has evolved over many years in what are some run-down buildings, and many, many different vendors.

Granville Island offers a much better comparison, in scale and size, not to mention how it was developed in a much shorter time frame, in new buildings.

I also think that nobody has done a very good analysis of a good location to locate a market.
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  #156  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2010, 10:38 AM
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Granville Island is nothing like this site. It's a series of warehouse type structures spread out over a large industrial area, and intersperced with parking throughout. You have to drive there, there's no easy access by transit, except a water taxi across False Creek.

This site is 5 contiguous blocks in the heart of downtown, with MAX stops at either end. There's a 6th block (3/4 of a block anyway) across Stark between First and Naito. The cloverleaf ramps can easily be removed and traffic rerouted onto Morrison and Stark with new ramps and a service road/loading docks parallel to First and the MAX rails. This site is perfect for a year-round market and the design opportunities at the bridgehead are very exciting. This is major gateway into downtown and it could be quite dramatic if designed well. The Guggenheim in Bilboa is built under a bridgehead.
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  #157  
Old Posted May 4, 2010, 7:43 AM
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Plan for Portland market goes against grain
POSTED: Monday, May 3, 2010 at 04:18 PM PT
BY: Nick Bjork
Tags: Melvin Mark Brokerage Company, Project for Public Spaces, Ron Paul

http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/05/03...against-grain/

The 3-acre lot at the foot of the Morrison Bridge may become the home of the long-awaited James Beard Public Market. Representatives of the market are planning to building new after failed attempts to move into a historic building downtown.

There has long been a structured formula for creating financially feasible public market halls - repurposing large, historic commercial buildings into bustling year-round indoor marketplaces.

“Indoor markets need to be open and flexible while maintaining a relatively low lease rate,” said Kelly Williams, assistant planner with the New York-based Project for Public Spaces. “So, old warehouses and large industrial facilities work nicely.”

In Portland, however, developers of the long-proposed James Beard Public Market are breaking the mold. They tried multiple times to lease space in a historic building before settling on a plan to build a new, sustainably-minded facility at the foot of the Morrison Bridge in downtown.

That is a departure from the successes achieved by some of the most popular public markets around the country, such as Pike’s Place Market in Seattle, Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia and Ferry Plaza Market in San Francisco. All are located in repurposed historic buildings.

Williams noted that of the 100 indoor public market halls in the United States, she is not aware of a single one that had a building constructed for it.

“When people come to us they usually have an existing space already in mind,” she said. “The reason is that people tend to use markets as a way to revitalize an area, not develop a new one.

“Also, market halls are usually started by nonprofit organizations because they aren’t big moneymakers for building owners. The organizations usually have limited budgets and building new is not an option.”

But this is not the case for the backers of the James Beard Public Market. After failing to lease space at the Central Fire Station Building in Ankeny Square, Union Station and the 511 Federal Building, developers teamed up with Melvin Mark, owner of Melvin Mark Cos. Mark has since been leading fundraising for the project, increasing the feasibility of building new.

Multnomah County commissioners last week decided to speed up the process in sending out a Request for Proposals on the county-owned Morrison bridgehead property. The James Beard Market board and SERA Architects will be submitting a proposal for a mixed-use development that will include a 55,000-square-foot bottom-floor space for the market and housing or office space above.

Williams noted that while historic buildings often provide character and uniqueness, a market really only needs to reflect its surroundings and customer base. That’s why the creators of the James Beard Market are focusing on sustainability.

Ron Paul, consulting director for the James Beard Public Market, said the team is looking at every practical way to make the new building sustainable. This would include green walls with vegetation to catch rainwater and a climate-influenced temperature management system, he said.

“All the major downtowns in the U.S. were created around where the market was because it was where everyone met,” Williams said. “So, a market can become a destination but it really needs to have synergy with what’s around it first.”

Paul noted that the developers like the current tract of land because it’s more of a crossroads than a cul-de-sac. Not only will the new market be in the same vicinity as the markets of the 19th and 20th centuries, but it also will be within walking distance to Portland Saturday Market, the downtown shopping districts and some east-side districts, he said.

“We always encourage people to find a location next to an outdoor market or a farmers market,” Williams said. “Sales increase at both locations when an indoor market is put next to an outdoor market.”

Other new public market halls around the state are sticking with the standard formula.

In Tillamook, a revitalization committee restored and repurposed the 94-year-old Independent Order of Odd Fellows Building into an indoor market with room for 20 vendors year-round. The market is slated to open later this month.

In Astoria, developers Brian Faherty and Paul Caruana are renovating and repurposing the Astor Hotel Building into a mixed-use development. They plan to turn the 3,000-square-foot lobby into a retail market for arts and crafts.

In Medford, Jake Husel and Crista Singley converted an old, 12,800-square-foot industrial building into an antique collectors and artisan guild. It opened last weekend.
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  #158  
Old Posted May 5, 2010, 10:36 PM
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It's simply amazing to me that they have 'given up' on historic sites because their first 3 choices didn't pan out... Well, that's because they chose bad historic spots. Union Station is a poor choice for locations, existing surroundings and usage. The Firehouse deal was reliant on another failed business deal, and the fed building had competition and was also located in a currently bad location. I'm surprised they haven't jumped on the old customs building, the 3 story building across from the burnside bridgehead ( formerly disjecta, the templeton building), or the Montgomery ward warehouse off glisan... There are many more examples, but honestly no location is better than the galleria. The naito's have been trying to fill that space for years...
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  #159  
Old Posted May 5, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Many older buildings would require seismic upgrades, which might be too much for this organization's shaky finances. The Galleria, though, has probably already been upgraded, and the location would be perfect.
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  #160  
Old Posted May 6, 2010, 10:11 AM
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The Galleria's ground floor is now fully leased. From the "Retail Thread", posted by DowntownPDX a month ago....

" 'Coming Soon' sign up in Galleria's NW corner - Collier, a men's fine clothing store."

The 3rd, 4th and 5th floor are taken by the WCI. So you want a Public Market on the 2nd floor?
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