BC Ferries Discussion

[Migrant_Coconut]

The problem seems to be that kicking the can down the road over and over again has led to Canada needing new warships and new ferries at the same time; once the current batch of icebreakers and destroyers are finished, Seaspan and Irving are back to twiddling their thumbs waiting for a new contract for large vessels.

Like it or not, there isn't really a reason for the feds to subsidize a bunch of new shipyards that'll just sit empty too. If overseas exports doubled suddenly, maybe.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The problem seems to be that kicking the can down the road over and over again has led to Canada needing new warships and new ferries at the same time; once the current batch of icebreakers and destroyers are finished, Seaspan and Irving are back to twiddling their thumbs waiting for a new contract for large vessels.

Like it or not, there isn't really a reason for the feds to subsidize a bunch of new shipyards that'll just sit empty too. If overseas exports doubled suddenly, maybe.

With the ramp-up to the now-agreed upon NATO 5% of GDP (3.5% defense, 1.5% defensive-supportive infrastructure) over the next decade, I anticipate that there will be a follow-on program to the National Shipbuilding Strategy that will keep the shipyards busy. Moreover, the 1.5% defense-supportive infrastructure spend can help expand the capabilities of our shipyards so that it isn't a non-starter for Canadian shipyards to bid on projects like new ferries. Furthermore, additional graving docks and submersible dry docks will be needed for fleet maintenance and modernization. This will let the Navy expedite maintenance cycles, which improves readiness rates and permits Canada to play expanded role in NATO with longer duration naval missions and greater sensor-strike capabilities.

The River Class will represent our principal surface combatants, but I could see the Navy wanting additional River Class hulls and additional fleet support ships. These would be a straightforward point of departure for a National Shipbuilding Strategy extension.

Moreover, I could see value to complimenting the River Class with a class of frigates, itself split into air defense and anti-submarine (and uncrewed underwater vessels) specializations. This would result in a high-low fleet mix, with the River Class providing the sensor-rich, offensive-oriented command vessels and the frigates providing complimentary air defense and anti-submarine capabilities with more limited sensor and offensive capabilities. The frigates should truly be off-the shelf designs, such as the FREMM, that can be procured/licensed as part of the European rearmament initiative. And Canada must resist the urge to revise the design.

[officedweller]

Federal bank loaning $1B for BC Ferries to buy Chinese-made ships
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2025/06/26...or-bc-ferries-to-buy-chinese-made-ships/

Federal infrastructure bank to provide BC Ferries with $1-billion loan toward China-built ships
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-ferries-new-major-vessels-loan-canada-infrastructure-bank-cib

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Federal bank loaning $1B for BC Ferries to buy Chinese-made ships
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2025/06/26...or-bc-ferries-to-buy-chinese-made-ships/

Federal infrastructure bank to provide BC Ferries with $1-billion loan toward China-built ships
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-ferries-new-major-vessels-loan-canada-infrastructure-bank-cib

That definitely makes Freeland look stupid after her criticism. What Ministry actually oversees the Canada Infrastructure Bank?

[whatnext]

LOL, just doing some more reading and had to laugh when I found the answer to my own question Canada Infrastructure Banks answers to a man who needs know introduction when it comes to kowtowing to China, Vancouvers favourite dimwit, Gregor Robertson!

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, just doing some more reading and had to laugh when I found the answer to my own question Canada Infrastructure Banks answers to a man who needs know introduction when it comes to kowtowing to China, Vancouvers favourite dimwit, Gregor Robertson!

Here is the actual webpage for the project with a link to the press release that the articles are based on....
https://cib-bic.ca/en/projects/public-transit/bc-ferries-major-vessels/

Around 1/3 of it is upgrades to the ferry terminals themselves and power grid infrastructure. These are after all hybrid ferries that will should use electricity as their main fuel source for at least part of the trip.

Good to see the move to decarbonize the ferries.

Would have like to see these built in Canada, or Europe. But that is not happening.

What we need to see is someone dump some money into Allied Shipbuilders in North Vancouver. That shipyard use to play a major role in BC Ferries builds back in the day. Now it is under used mostly with smaller ships. Looks like there is room for some expansion.

[whatnext]

House of Commons Transport Committee to launch study of Infrastructure Bank loan to buy Chinese ferries:

Transport committee will study BC Ferries' receiving $1B loan for Chinese ships
OTTAWA — The House of Commons transport committee agreed on Monday to launch a study into the $1 billion loan BC Ferries received from the Canada Infrastructure Bank to finance the purchase of four new electric-diesel ships from a Chinese shipbuilder
David Baxter, The Canadian Press
about 5 hours ago

OTTAWA — The House of Commons transport committee agreed on Monday to launch a study into the $1 billion loan BC Ferries received from the Canada Infrastructure Bank to finance the purchase of four new electric-diesel ships from a Chinese shipbuilder.

BC Ferries announced last month that it had hired China Merchants Industry Weihai Shipyards to build the new ships following a five-year procurement process that did not include a Canadian bid.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank contributed $1 billion to the deal and said in a June 26 statement that the new ferries "wouldn't likely be purchased" without this financing.

The bank said the low-cost loan includes up to $690 million to buy the vessels and up to $310 million for electrification infrastructure.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is accountable to Parliament through Housing and Infrastructure Minister Gregor Robertson.

The committee unanimously voted to call Robertson, along with Transport Minister Chrystia Freeland, and the CEOs of BC Ferries and the Canada Infrastructure Bank to testify.

Jeff Groot, executive director of communications for BC Ferries, said the company signed the loan with the bank before the contract with the Chinese shipyard was finalized...

https://www.biv.com/news/transport-commi...iving-1b-loan-for-chinese-ships-10909384

[SpongeG]

it was mentioned as this was the topic on CKNW this afternoon on my commute that the east coast has used the same shipyard in China to build ferries. So why the big fuss for BC?

Get a 1st look at the new Marine Atlantic ferry — at a shipyard in China
New Marine Atlantic ferry to launch in 2024 will be quieter, better for environment
Bernice Hillier · CBC News · Posted: Apr 10, 2023

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundl...tlantic-dual-fuel-silent-class-1.6803614

[officedweller]

The west coast is more political.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The Maritimes' Chinese ferries also get to be fully funded by Ottawa, while BC only qualifies for a loan.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

House of Commons Transport Committee to launch study of Infrastructure Bank loan to buy Chinese ferries...

The plot thickens!

[officedweller]

Let's see if the media takes a balanced approach or just continues to sh!t on BC Ferries.

[whatnext]

From the Globe & Mail today:

Chinese-built vessels for B.C. Ferries will be named after trees
the first four new major vessels will be called the Summit Arbutus, Summit Cedar, Summit Maple and Summit Spruce.
Michael John Lo
about 2 hours ago

The new fleet of major B.C. Ferries vessels being built in a Chinese shipyard will be named after trees found across the province.

The ferry company announced Wednesday that its first four new major vessels will be called the Summit Arbutus, Summit Cedar, Summit Maple and Summit Spruce.

B.C. Ferries said “Summit” was selected for the vessel class to reflect the landscapes of the province....

...The Summit-class diesel-battery ships will replace some of the oldest vessels in the B.C. Ferries fleet — the C-Class ferries that generally operate on the Duke Point-Tsawwassen, Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay-Langdale routes.

The Queen of Alberni, Queen of New Westminster, Queen of Coquitlam and Queen of Cowichan ships have been in service for more than a half-century...

https://www.biv.com/news/transportation/...rries-will-be-named-after-trees-12338058

[WarrenC12]

A bit disappointing these are straight diesel ships. I thought they were moving towards LNG/hybrid electric.

[jollyburger]

The Summit Class vessels are built with future sustainability in mind, designed to support fully electric operation when the necessary infrastructure becomes available.

https://www.bcferries.com/in-the-community/projects/new-major-vessels

They'll run with smaller battery packs as "hybrids" until the recharging infrastructure at the docks is created.

Each ferry will be equipped to accommodate up to 70 megawatt-hours (MWh) of battery energy storage. This enables efficient hybrid operations today and supports a future shift to fully electric, zero-emission service. The hybrid configuration uses biofuel or renewable diesel and continuously balances energy between generators and batteries. Each vessel can also connect to a high-capacity shore charging system rated above 60 megawatts (MW) for full electric operation. This system is more than 100 times more powerful than the fastest public electric vehicle charging stations in North America, which typically deliver up to 500 kilowatts (kW) per plug. This high-capacity charging supports fast turnaround in port and enables the transition to zero-emission operations.

https://new.abb.com/news/detail/132529/a...hnology-for-bc-ferries-new-major-vessels

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A bit disappointing these are straight diesel ships. I thought they were moving towards LNG/hybrid electric.

They're diesel-battery hybrid engines, so the diesel engines drive a generator that charges the batteries to propel the ship. The diesel engines are designed to use bio-diesel, ( TransLink buses also now use it).

The ferries have the potential to add more than the 10 MWh batteries they'll initially have, so they could be 100% electric in future, but there would need to be charging infrastructure in all the ferry docks before that potential could be realized.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.bcferries.com/in-the-community/projects/new-major-vessels

They'll run with smaller battery packs as "hybrids" until the recharging infrastructure at the docks is created.

Thanks I must have missed that... doesn't appear in the press release.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Thanks I must have missed that... doesn't appear in the press release.

No, I had seen something when the order was announced, so dug it out. I don't think it's guaranteed that they'll use bio-diesel, but at least the engines are designed to be able to use it.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Changing City

They're diesel-battery hybrid engines, so the diesel engines drive a generator that charges the batteries to propel the ship. The diesel engines are designed to use bio-diesel, ( TransLink buses also now use it).

Using a diesel-to-electric powertrain with batteries allows the ferry to run with the diesel engines always set to their most efficient configuration and then draw whatever power is needed from moment-to-moment from the batteries. This is one of the ways that a hybrid car (such as a Prius) saves energy.

The other big way that hybrid cars save energy is to recoup momentum when you slow or stop by turning the electric motor into a generator and feeding the energy back into the battery again. This can recover most of the energy that was needed to stop the car, store it in the battery, and then use it to get the car going again. I assume that the ferries wouldn't be able to take advantage of this.

It would be interesting to know just how much diesel fuel is saved by operating the ferry in hybrid mode.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Using a diesel-to-electric powertrain with batteries allows the ferry to run with the diesel engines always set to their most efficient configuration and then draw whatever power is needed from moment-to-moment from the batteries. This is one of the ways that a hybrid car (such as a Prius) saves energy.

The other big way that hybrid cars save energy is to recoup momentum when you slow or stop by turning the electric motor into a generator and feeding the energy back into the battery again. This can recover most of the energy that was needed to stop the car, store it in the battery, and then use it to get the car going again. I assume that the ferries wouldn't be able to take advantage of this.

It would be interesting to know just how much diesel fuel is saved by operating the ferry in hybrid mode.

Maybe when they're in port they can use the batteries to run all the systems but not relying on the engines which would be operating at minimal load? Not sure if constant restarts is an issue.