Retail News

[flar]

^^you're very good at pointing out the negatives. One could also say that Hamilton's distribution of managerial, university, college and low skill jobs is very similar to Winnipeg and Quebec City's, which are roughly the same size as Hamilton. However, the average earnings of those in Hamilton's city centre are higher than in those two cities.

Also bear in mind that much of the heavy industry (including steel mills) falls within 5 km of Hamilton's city centre. This sector was hit hard in the study period. This could skew the education/skill, income and job loss numbers and otherwise make them a poor representation of the downtown employment situation. The low average income for the 25km+ zone might be accounted for by its primarily rural nature and low pay agricultural work.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by flar

The low average income for the 25km+ zone might be accounted for by its primarily rural nature and low pay agricultural work.

You're probably right.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by omro

That fact is true, so what you're saying is indeed correct.

However, viewing the argument from the both sides, it does depend upon a relative definition of what's considered a "high" income.

Just under that same table it does state:

definitely, being 7th isn't a great stat and needs to be worked on, but for the purposes of breaking down the Hamilton market as we have been in this discussion, you can see that downtown is doing darn good in terms of jobs for this area.
I'm more than happy to look at being in 7th with a little more optimism.
After all, Toronto is the financial capital of the country, Calgary is oil, Ottawa is government jobs and even Edmonton is capitalizing on the oil boom.
Hamilton's doing pretty good, but could do better.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

After all, Toronto is the financial capital of the country, Calgary is oil, Ottawa is government jobs and even Edmonton is capitalizing on the oil boom.
Hamilton's doing pretty good, but could do better.

Yes, but the oil boom didn't exist in 2001, so I'm betting Calgary and Edmonton numbers have accelerated very quickly.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by flar

Then why are they trying to build more power centres near the core?

But near the core, and in the core two different thing. It was my understanding we were talking about stores locating in the core, not near the core.

[raisethehammer]

let's also not forget all the lawyers, accountants, doctors and nurses that work in downtown Hamilton.

[omro]

What is the average wage in Hamilton?

What is the average wage in Ontario?

Just curious in the context of this discussion.

[BrianE]

The City of Hamilton has a good GIS department and they have a good mapping site at : http://map.hamilton.ca/maphamilton/

You can get detailed Census information for each of the wards in the City by using the iMapper tool. Tons of other great maps as well.

Oh and property tax info too.

[flar]

From the 2006 Census:

These are individual incomes for persons aged 15 and over (ie: These are not household incomes!)

Hamilton (just the city, not the CMA)
median income: 26,353
average income: 35,117


Burlington
median income: 34,379
average income: 47,406


Ontario
median income: 27,258
average income: 38,099



For reference:

Windsor:
median income: 25,443
average income: 33,905

London:
median income: 27,275
average income: 36,549

Kitchener:
median income: 28,629
average income: 35,648

Toronto:
median income: 24,544
average income: 40,376

[omro]

Originally Posted by flar

From the 2006 Census:

These are individual incomes for persons aged 15 and over (ie: These are not household incomes!)

Hamilton (just the city, not the CMA)
median income: 26,353
average income: 35,117


Burlington
median income: 34,379
average income: 47,406


Ontario
median income: 27,258
average income: 38,099



For reference:

Windsor:
median income: 25,443
average income: 33,905

London:
median income: 27,275
average income: 36,549

Kitchener:
median income: 28,629
average income: 35,648

Toronto:
median income: 24,544
average income: 40,376

Great info Flar! Thanks

Are any of the places with a lower average income considered better (or are better)?

Are any of the places with a higher average income considered worse (or are worse)?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by omro

Great info Flar! Thanks

Are any of the places with a lower average income considered better (or are better)?

Are any of the places with a higher average income considered worse (or are worse)?

My opinion of other's impressions/opinions/perceptions (not my own):

- Windsor worse
- Burlington, Kitchener, London & Toronto better

Also, I feel that Kitchener's numbers would be higher if it included Waterloo, as they are essentially amalgamated in every way except local government.

[Millstone]

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

[raisethehammer]

I think they are all worse.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

Windsor is perfectly nice. Opinions to the contrary stem from the ignorance. I will assume this comment was made in jest.

[flar]

A few more for comparison:

Region of Waterloo:
median 29,449
average 38,474

City of Waterloo
median 30,825
average 43,862

Brantford
median 26,073
average 32,842

St. Catharines
median 25,114
average 33,445

Mississauga
median 27,788
average 37,970

[SteelTown]

When a new retail development is planned, developers look at an area around 10km from the proposed retail site. Often time Hamilton's number is combined with other cities, especially when the retail is located near a major road like QEW, Linc, Red Hill, Upper James, etc.

For example 0 to 10km from QEW and Fifty Rd the average household income is $74,440 and 0 to 5km the average household income is $90,160. Basically it's rare for retail developers to soley look at Hamilton's numbers.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

Windsor is perfectly nice. Opinions to the contrary stem from the ignorance. I will assume this comment was made in jest.

Make no mistake, I'm completely serious.

[omro]

Thanks Flar for those numbers, very interesting! They show pretty clearly that Hamilton isn't doing that badly, the average income isn't that far off everywhere else. So the next question I have is this.

Windsor, St. Catharines, and Brantford - all have a worse average income.

Are any of these set up with much better downtown retail than Hamilton?

If some are, then why have they? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

Kitchener - is the closest in direct comparison with average income.

How does its downtown retail compare to Hamilton's? If it's better than Hamilton's why is it? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by omro

Windsor, St. Catharines, and Brantford - all have a worse average income.

Are any of these set up with much better downtown retail than Hamilton?

If some are, then why have they? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

http://www.downtownwindsor.ca
http://www.stcathdowntown.com
http://www.downtownbrantford.ca

None of these three downtowns seem to have better downtown retail (let alone much better) than Hamilton, but all three sites do make a point of telling you what retail options are actually offered downtown. The Downtown Hamilton site, amazingly, does not seem to contain a directory of stores and services, which seems like a significant oversight for a BIA. That's obviously transferrable.

[raisethehammer]

no, none of those downtowns are better.
in fact, all 3 are clinging to their downtown casino's as the only real drawing card. St Kitts is the 'nicest' although fairly dead.
Windsor is nothing special and Brantford is downright lousy.
Hamilton is doing better than all 3 (which ain't saying much).