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  #141  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 10:05 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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Only way for a team in Hamilton is to remove Buffalo from the equation. Bettman will back Buffalo until the end of time (his time), because they supported the lockout. Buffalo does't want a team in Hamilton because it will suck much of their attendance.

I know guys in Toronto who have Sabres season tickets. They sell the ones they don't want and drive to Buffalo for the premier games. I know there are many other people in the horseshoe doing the same, and the closer to Buffalo the more likely that is to happen.
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  #142  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FairHamilton View Post
Only way for a team in Hamilton is to remove Buffalo from the equation. Bettman will back Buffalo until the end of time (his time), because they supported the lockout. Buffalo does't want a team in Hamilton because it will suck much of their attendance.

I know guys in Toronto who have Sabres season tickets. They sell the ones they don't want and drive to Buffalo for the premier games. I know there are many other people in the horseshoe doing the same, and the closer to Buffalo the more likely that is to happen.
That's why we should target the Sabres and forget about Nashville or Florida.
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  #143  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
heard Bob McCowan today. He's usually the only guy who has a clue of what's really going on in the sports world.
He's convinced that Balsille wants Hamilton. His wife is from here and they think it would go a long way towards revitalizing downtown.
Bob is right. Jim Balsillie has a soft spot for Hamilton and wants to place a team into Hamilton. He does not want to place a team into Toronto. He does not want to place a team into Kitchener. Richard Rodier has stated as much.

This whole story is way overblown and is nothing new. All of the quotes are probably from one or two governors. The Toronto Maple Leafs are not behind this story. The NHL is not behind this story.
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  #144  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 1:41 AM
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Bob is right. Jim Balsillie has a soft spot for Hamilton and wants to place a team into Hamilton. He does not want to place a team into Toronto. He does not want to place a team into Kitchener. Richard Rodier has stated as much.

This whole story is way overblown and is nothing new. All of the quotes are probably from one or two governors. The Toronto Maple Leafs are not behind this story. The NHL is not behind this story.
Ya but what about the Buffalo Sabres? Nobody seems to be talking about them and they will want a say in all of this and a piece of the pie...

By the way, I would like to upload some photos I took of Copps Coliseum and the new seats and all the renovating that's been going on in there. What are the rules regarding uploads of photos?
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  #145  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 1:49 AM
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I really don't want to see Buffalo lose its team and I don't think they will. Similar to Detroit, the city itself has declined in population but the metropolitan area has not (currently Buffalo metro is 1.2 million).

I've read that on several occasions that Canadians account for less than 10% of the attendance at the Sabres games. That's significant, but the team could probably survive and the fans in Niagara region would still cross the border for games.


@Boomtown: you can't upload photos to this site, but you can post your own photos hosted elsewhere using [img][/img] tags around the url. You can also post photos by others if you credit them and provide a link.
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  #146  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 1:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomtown_Hamilton View Post
Ya but what about the Buffalo Sabres? Nobody seems to be talking about them and they will want a say in all of this and a piece of the pie...

By the way, I would like to upload some photos I took of Copps Coliseum and the new seats and all the renovating that's been going on in there. What are the rules regarding uploads of photos?
please post them on here. I would like to see what's different.

You can upload them on photobucket or whatever.

You took the pictures, you have every right to post them here.
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  #147  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 2:06 AM
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I really don't want to see Buffalo lose its team and I don't think they will. Similar to Detroit, the city itself has declined in population but the metropolitan area has not (currently Buffalo metro is 1.2 million).

I've read that on several occasions that Canadians account for less than 10% of the attendance at the Sabres games. That's significant, but the team could probably survive and the fans in Niagara region would still cross the border for games.


@Boomtown: you can't upload photos to this site, but you can post your own photos hosted elsewhere using [img][/img] tags around the url. You can also post photos by others if you credit them and provide a link.
Personally, I think having a team here in Hamilton could be a plus for the Sabres. Build up another solid rival and fans from both teams can travel back-and-forth between both cities and the teams can also save on the travel costs. There's just so much that can work in their favour as well by having a team here in Hamilton. My main concern here is I don't want to see a repeat of what we saw when we were trying to get an NHL expansion team for the 1990 season. NHL was ready to hand it to us but was blocked at the last possible moment by the Buffalo Sabres. Even Phil Esposito who was part of that winning bid in Tampa Bay has been quoted as saying that it was both Toronto and Buffalo that blocked Hamilton and both the Leafs and Sabres were upset that Hamilton was even being seriously considered by the League. Below is the link to a National Post article with the Phil Esposito quotes:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=b3a45cfc-d9c2-4ccc-b37d-5f3dcfdc7bde
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  #148  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 2:36 AM
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Well here are the first two. I was hoping to add more but the other images came out too dark. These two are the best ones I have and show the new navy blue seats inside Copps Coliseum. They still need to replace the ones in the upper stands and the ones at both ends of the rink.




Last edited by Boomtown_Hamilton; Oct 22, 2008 at 3:06 AM.
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  #149  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:11 AM
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Damn, much more professional looking, and more put-together. Thanks for the pics!

Last edited by crhayes; Oct 22, 2008 at 3:25 AM.
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  #150  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 3:17 AM
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Damn, much more professional looking, and more put-together. Thanks for the pics!
Ya, you can say that again. Much more professional looking. Sort of like when they got rid of all those multi-coloured seats down at Ivor Wynne stadium.
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  #151  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 5:15 AM
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me likey the blue..thanks for those shots.

It'll also work better for hiding the empty seats at bulldogs game. Yellow, Orange definitely are eyesores when you're trying to disguise them as people. haha.

I was kinda expecting a LED ribbon board along the fascia of the upper deck, but I guess, not yet.

Any other details on the renovations? Just seat replacement?
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  #152  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 8:57 AM
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The blue seats look great. Too bad it looks like theres about 500 people in there. Weak.
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  #153  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 11:15 AM
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Momentum swings our way
NHL in Hamilton no longer long shot

October 22, 2008
Steve Milton
The Hamilton Spectator

The important thing to remember is that, for the past 18 years, this battle has always been less about Hamilton than about a second team in Toronto.

Not the city proper, but its massive catchment basin. And the only NHL-sized rink in that area just happens to be in Hamilton.

And, despite what our colleagues at another newspaper insist, that is the rink where the next NHL team in this area -- assuming there is one -- will play. It's where Jim Balsillie, for his own reasons, wants the team.

For some months, there's been a softening of the once-rigid assumption no team could ever invade the Toronto Maple Leafs' sacred space. Prompted by The Spectator, some NHL owners had already wondered in private why theirs is the only professional league in the world that lets just one team mine its richest market.

What has changed this week is that some NHL governors are actually willing to talk about it in public, even if they're leery of attaching their names to their most pointed comments. Even staunch Gary Bettman ally Harley Hotchkiss, co-owner of the Calgary Flames, wouldn't deny he's heard Toronto-2 talk.

As recently as six months ago, Bettman had such control over his board no one would have expressed anything but the company line about the Toronto market -- which was essentially "no comment, so buzz off" -- let alone suggest there was a movement to put a second team there.

This change suggests Bettman is losing some of his grip on the people he works for, but who sometimes act like they work for him.

And, among Bettman's many mantras has been a Hammer-less NHL. His greatest issue with Jim Balsillie, until things got personal, was not the man himself but where he wanted, and still wants, to put a team. But trashing a city, especially one with ticket buyers to two NHL franchises, is bad form so, instead, the man got trashed. Balsillie was falsely demonized to governors.

Many things have changed since the NHL board meeting in June 2006, where, and after which, Bettman could not control his anger at Balsillie for staring him down with the season's ticket and corporate box campaign in Hamilton.

That got Balsillie's bid plenty of attention, which, at the onset, was destructive to his NHL aspirations but has quickly morphed into a strength. He challenged a basic assumption out loud and that got some important folks inside the league wondering why, in a revenue-sharing era, the NHL is leaving so much money on the southern Ontario table.

And some owners have become better acquainted with Balsillie, who has been quietly pitching his ownership strengths, with the mounting help of some allies within the NHL. Additionally, Bettman-recommended ownership structures in Nashville and Tampa have blown up very publicly in the NHL's face, with the Boots Del Biaggio fiasco far more resonant behind closed doors than the league will admit. So is the rising salary floor.

The teetering North American economy has become the best friend of the Balsillie bid. Even with the downsized Canadian dollar, there will be no shortage of franchises that can be rescued only by sale, relocation or both.

All this has conspired to change the direction the wind blows and even the folks at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Limited are rejigging their sails. They know their league brethren are beginning to abandon them, recognizing a team in this area won't hurt the Leafs much, especially since no one involved disputes a Spectator report that Balsillie's group would hire MLSE to run their arena.

But a Leaf compromise would fall short of allowing within their city limits a new team and, far worse, a new arena that would be serious competition for the same non-hockey properties the ACC hosts.

Copps Coliseum is already in competition for those dates, so nothing would change there if Balsillie bought and moved Nashville, Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta, or, oh geez, the list is getting longer with each Dow drop.

As for Buffalo, their Canadian ticket sales have been greatly overestimated. The real figure is 11 per cent after being as high as 25 per cent a few decades back.

And no small portion of those Canadian tickets are sold for Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal games. Hamilton would join that trio. Can any sane person believe the 50 kilometres between Copps and, say, Woodbine Racetrack, would make a substantial difference to the Buffalo franchise? Puh-leeze.

But a team in Hamilton would still hit the Sabres, perhaps knocking their Canadian sales down to 5 or 6 per cent. Balsillie is known to have a relationship with the Sabres' ownership and management, so a financial arrangement could easily be worked out.

Talk is of an expansion team, but that won't happen, at least not soon, although expansion would give the other owners a share of the Balsillie windfall. There are too many franchises wanting to sell. Plus, according to Spec sources, the other expansion sure thing is now off the table. Well-known TV producer Jerry Bruckheimer, once willing to pay $250 million, has grown disinterested in hockey for Las Vegas. Head office isn't popular over that defection, either.

So momentum, once so stiffly against Balsillie and Hamilton, is moving behind them. That doesn't mean a team here is imminent, but it's no longer such a long shot.
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  #154  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 2:03 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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don't like the blue seats.
but it's nice to see investment into Copps.....new seats is a good move.

I like Milton's piece....let's hope that some of Bettman's guys are finally starting to clue into the economic realities right now and will support a profitable team here.
C'mon US economy, keep tanking!!! Lol.
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  #155  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
me likey the blue..thanks for those shots.

It'll also work better for hiding the empty seats at bulldogs game. Yellow, Orange definitely are eyesores when you're trying to disguise them as people. haha.

I was kinda expecting a LED ribbon board along the fascia of the upper deck, but I guess, not yet.

Any other details on the renovations? Just seat replacement?
I also noticed some new corporate boxes in there at both ends of the rink. It appears that if renovations and upgrades are necessary for Copps then they are trying their best to do what they can do now without having to interupt the scheduling of events down there at Copps. The big work I think will have to be when its time to raise up the roof and add more corporate boxes along the top.
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  #156  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 4:15 PM
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The blue seats look great. Too bad it looks like theres about 500 people in there. Weak.
Yes, it looks like 500 people in there pre-game but the lower level filled up pretty good afterwards. There was a few more people wanting to make their way down to their seats that were held up during the playing of the National anthems.
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  #157  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 5:34 PM
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Yes, it looks like 500 people in there pre-game but the lower level filled up pretty good afterwards. There was a few more people wanting to make their way down to their seats that were held up during the playing of the National anthems.
still...3,500 for a sunday afternoon game is pathetic if you ask me.

but ticket prices are too high in my books. If i want to buy online, with a student plan. It comes out to 27 bucks a ticket. Supply and Demand problems are here. I think paying 15-20 for an adult ticket would be much more cost-worthy. I think the benefits of more sold seats, meaning more concession sales would be worth it, but yeah, of the 5 Bulldogs games I went to last year, only two were ones that I actually had fun at with (one being the home opener - 11,000 fans) and the other (a game against the marlies. 8,800 fans) I went to one where there wasn't even 2,000 fans in the building, and considering this was the season where they were defending champions, I found that disgusting. I guess I was expecting games where the upper deck was open from time to time, and averages of 7-8,000 fans per game.
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  #158  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 2:35 AM
BCTed BCTed is offline
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
don't like the blue seats.
but it's nice to see investment into Copps.....new seats is a good move.
I don't like the blue seats either. I like the old colour scheme.
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  #159  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
still...3,500 for a sunday afternoon game is pathetic if you ask me.

but ticket prices are too high in my books. If i want to buy online, with a student plan. It comes out to 27 bucks a ticket. Supply and Demand problems are here. I think paying 15-20 for an adult ticket would be much more cost-worthy. I think the benefits of more sold seats, meaning more concession sales would be worth it, but yeah, of the 5 Bulldogs games I went to last year, only two were ones that I actually had fun at with (one being the home opener - 11,000 fans) and the other (a game against the marlies. 8,800 fans) I went to one where there wasn't even 2,000 fans in the building, and considering this was the season where they were defending champions, I found that disgusting. I guess I was expecting games where the upper deck was open from time to time, and averages of 7-8,000 fans per game.
It's pathetic yes you are right. I can't speak for everybody else here in Hamilton as to why they don't come out and support the AHL brand of hockey. All I can tell you is I go to their games and I'm trying my best to do my part. The other thing that you have to consider is that Bulldogs attendance numbers are close to to the League average and for whatever reason in a lot of the other rinks around the AHL they don't draw capacity crowds either.

All I can say is that whenever we have hosted a major hockey tournament here in town like World Junior Championships, 1990 Memorial Cup and the two Canada Cups in 1987 and 1991 we set attendance records at the time of hosting each one of these tournaments. In addition to that twice now we have had NHL season ticket drives here in town and both times we've had 14,000+ fans making down payments for season's tickets and the second time around we also had 70 corporate boxes sold along with those season's tickets. I guess if its percived to be BIG LEAGUE or WORLD CLASS hockey event the fans do come out by the thousands here in Hamilton.
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  #160  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2008, 2:14 AM
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Hamilton City Council has just approved a vote to submit a package to the NHL Board of Governors to showcase the city.

Also council approved a request to be invited to the next NHL Board of Governors meeting to showcase the city and prove Hamilton is not a minor league city.
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