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  #141  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2023, 6:14 PM
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Architecturally a couple big problems are that the facades aren't very interesting and precast is used as an exterior finish material. While it's true that there's a lot of development pressure and it's good for the municipality to get projects through the pipeline quickly, I think they should be aiming for speed and high quality, and in theory some of the slow steps they add like design review should be ensuring quality. My impression is that some relatively modest changes to the facades of the Doyle and the Mills could have made a big difference without bringing costs up all that much. And if HRM had given them more height there might have been more budget to spend money on adaptive reuse of the heritage buildings, towers on top with setbacks, etc.

All that being said that's just a part of the project and these buildings aren't that bad. Two big benefits are that they provide larger modern retail spaces and more living space above. I think we should reserve judgement on this one not just because it the building itself isn't done yet but we don't know what the new tenants will look like. I'd argue the Doyle's spaces and tenants are markedly nicer than most of the street.
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  #142  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2023, 11:59 PM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
It is hard to reach any other conclusion that both streets are in intensive care and their future could go either way depending upon what misguided measures HRM afflicts them with next.
I'd say it's all kind of relative. There are vacancies along both streets but they're both in much better shape than most equivalent streets in most cities in Canada, and have a clear sense of forward momentum due to all the construction.

I think these streets were somewhat above-average for "Canadian city core" before the pandemic, and then were hit with the same kinds of problems as most other cities over the last 3 years - although to a lesser degree here. On top of that, the retail/restaurants in Queen's Marque, the Nova Centre, and the Velo (for example) are things that otherwise probably would have ended up on Barrington or Spring Garden. AFAIK those spaces are all full now and I think we can expect to see new retail fill the vacant spaces along SGR and Barrington before the next major round of downtown-or-adjacent commercial spaces is finished (Cunard Block, Richmond Yards + surroundings; these are other developments that will probably get "Barrington/SGR-type" tenants).

I don't think I'd call Spring Garden Place "failed" at all - the interior never feels busy, but that's because most of the retail has streetside entrances. Most of the businesses within that block are quite busy, and most of the spaces are occupied.

Park Lane seems to be doing fine Both Park Lane and SGP function more as overflow SGR retail space that can be rented to large-ish and/or corporate tenants. VERTU Place (or whatever it's called now - the "Pete's" building) is also like this. The mall corridors feel kind of redundant but the businesses all seem to do well. IIRC the Doyle also has this kind of arrangement.

Even Scotia Square, despite not really offering much of interest, has been puttering along quite a bit more successfully than most other downtown Canadian malls (especially in the <1M population range). My main complaint is that everything closes so early there. Barrington Place and Privateer's Wharf are other examples that don't really feel like coherent malls because the interior mall corridors are mostly redundant.

It's also notable that every single one of these, other than maybe VERTU/Pete's, have significant office components, in most cases having much more office space than retail. In some cases this was due to offices taking over retail spaces but largely it was by design. A lot of Canadian downtown malls (maybe the majority?) have gone the way of West End Mall, South Centre, or Bayer's Road (~100% office buildings in practice) or Penhorn (demolished/redeveloped). Many of them also have university/college "campuses" as major tenants, which you don't really see here unless you count NSCAD. But there's nothing on the scale of Dal or NSCC moving into Scotia Square or Park Lane (due to all the vacant space), which has been the norm in a lot of places.

There are a few genuine "success stories" in terms of downtown malls in Canada that are better than anything in Downtown Halifax, but overall most of them have been doing worse than anything in Downtown Halifax. Points of reference here would be places like Edmonton, Winnipeg, London, Hamilton. Calgary's and Vancouver's seemed pretty similar to Park Lane and don't stand out as major attractions. Toronto's Eaton Centre and Ottawa's Rideau Centre are the only ones I've been to that felt like a decisive step up from Scotia Square/Park lane and more in line with HSC/MMM in terms of scale and offerings. Victoria and Saskatoon seem to have nice/prominent downtown malls as well although I've never been inside them. Westmount Square and Dieppe's Champlain Place are sort of downtown-adjacent but not really in the same category geographically.
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  #143  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 1:37 AM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Absolutely agree with the above. Barrington’s upswing had been a little slower in the past few years—I think the pandemic plus the big vacant Roy hasn’t helped—but it’s clearly still on a good trajectory.

SGR has its problems with panhandling and the like, but the last thing I would say about it is a street in intensive care. The opposite really. Let’s put it this way: there isn’t a single urban street between Toronto and Vancouver I’d place above it for regular, day-in-day-out vitality.

Park Lane is nothing to write home about, but that’s par for the course for almost all downtown malls. (I rarely go there unless it’s to see a movie, in fairness.)
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  #144  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2023, 4:21 PM
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A couple of pics of The Mills from the live stream..

https://postimg.cc/gallery/brZndc0


To view the stream, go here:

https://www.youtube.com/live/iGiMMD6DpNk?feature=share
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  #145  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2023, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The bar business is in slow decline as the weed generation prefers to zone out in private instead of getting loud and boisterous in large groups, so the loss of those was inevitable regardless.

lol...Bar business is doing just fine. Plus neither of the these streets have had a lot of bars on them as far as I can remember.
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  #146  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2023, 6:53 PM
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  #147  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 12:56 AM
MonctonDowntown MonctonDowntown is offline
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Thank you Coastalkid. Always exciting seeing photos of this important project. Cheers.
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  #148  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2023, 10:31 AM
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Criticism on the architecture and height aside, I'm appreciating how this will change the corner. Improved public realm and a nice addition to the retail strip. The library is such a gem, so it's nice to see the area improve.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2023, 3:25 AM
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  #150  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2023, 10:32 PM
MonctonDowntown MonctonDowntown is offline
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Triangular glazing on the corner looking great.

https://ibb.co/ngrTtMr
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:01 PM
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From today:















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  #152  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2023, 6:07 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks for the pics!

Not looking too bad so far. It will be interesting to see how the courtyard area works when it’s finally finished.
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2023, 1:25 PM
Jreeb Jreeb is offline
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When I saw the plans initially, I had hoped the courtyard was facing Spring Garden to make it more inviting along the road. However, the courtyard could be a great way to draw people off Spring Garden and down Birmingham St towards some of current vacant retail spaces along Clyde Street
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2023, 2:27 PM
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When I saw the plans initially, I had hoped the courtyard was facing Spring Garden to make it more inviting along the road. However, the courtyard could be a great way to draw people off Spring Garden and down Birmingham St towards some of current vacant retail spaces along Clyde Street
I think one underappreciated aspect of the SGR area is the fact between Brunswick and South Pawrk it's not just a five-block retail stretch, but a district--every side street, to varying degrees, is also lined with retail. New development has mostly respected this, too. I wouldn't call the streetscapes created by the Mary Ann or Brenton Suites truly great, but they're serviceable and have even reinforced that aspect of the area, rather than creating blank walls.

One of my reservations re: the Mills building was the loss of this streetscape on Birmingham. Not that it's so special in and of itself (though the Daily Grind building was quote nice) but I was worried it would be replaced by a blank wall, or simply a parking-garage entrance. Watching the courtyard take shape has been encouraging in that regard, though time will tell how well-used it will really be.
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  #155  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2024, 10:29 PM
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  #156  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 3:17 PM
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Looks good but wish they'd added a little more height to the retail CRU's along Spring Garden.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2024, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by connect2source View Post
Looks good but wish they'd added a little more height to the retail CRU's along Spring Garden.
The classic Halifax lament.
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