Sports in Canadian culture

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

The big surprise on the hockey Facebook likes, however, is Vancouver, which trumps Toronto. Savvy marketing? Or is it because they've had runs to the finals recently?

OK, I'm about to be inflammatory and also a rude old fart.

Vancouver doesn't surprise me in the least. Look at the demographics of people who "like" things on Facebook, and you'll understand.

Also, I can't believe this is a serious discussion. I'm kinda expecting a detailed analysis of the prevalence of #fuckinghabsrock vs #hatersgottahate next.

But that's me being an old fart.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The 2001 Grey Cup in Montreal broadcast on CBC only had 2.7 million viewers (I'm sure the RDS numbers would have pushed it higher, but only to a certain point).

.

Probably a bit, but not that much. Ratings for even the Stanley Cup playoffs in Quebec plummet like a stone if the Habs aren't there, so imagine a Grey Cup with two teams from the Prairies. Even if it was taking place in Montreal.

Although total attendance in the stadium itself for some reason was awesome: over 65,000 fans, the third biggest Grey Cup crowd ever.

[Barnard's Star]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Also, I can't believe this is a serious discussion. I'm kinda expecting a detailed analysis of the prevalence of #fuckinghabsrock vs #hatersgottahate next.

It's a web forum, dude. If I can't waste time at work talking about irrelevant shit here then where can I?

Originally Posted by Acajack

Probably a bit, but not that much. Ratings for even the Stanley Cup playoffs in Quebec plummet like a stone if the Habs aren't there, so imagine a Grey Cup with two teams from the Prairies. Even if it was taking place in Montreal.

Although total attendance in the stadium itself for some reason was awesome: over 65,000 fans, the third biggest Grey Cup crowd ever.

IIRC last year's Grey Cup had 300,000 in Quebec versus 5.7 million in English Canada. The drop off is absolutely drastic. Are French Canadians actively hostile to the idea of following out-of-province team or does it just not occur to them to do so? It's an interesting cultural quirk.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

IIRC last year's Grey Cup had 300,000 in Quebec versus 5.7 million in English Canada. The drop off is absolutely drastic. Are French Canadians actively hostile to the idea of following out-of-province team or does it just not occur to them to do so? It's an interesting cultural quirk.

Definitely more a lack of interest as opposed to true hostility. Once the Als are out sports interest massively shifts to the Habs.

There isn't even that much interest in the NFL until the very last rounds of their playoffs and the Super Bowl.

International individual sports like F1 auto racing and WTA and ATP tennis are pretty big here though. As is the Tour de France.

And the FIFA World Cup is very big as well. France and Portugal qualifying yesterday was the second item on the sportscasts right after the Habs.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Although total attendance in the stadium itself for some reason was awesome: over 65,000 fans, the third biggest Grey Cup crowd ever.

No idea at all, but I'd guess a shit-ton of visitors. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Barnard's Star

It's a web forum, dude. If I can't waste time at work talking about irrelevant shit here then where can I?

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't being an angry old fart. I just find it comical. Akin to ranking top 40 music based on the t-shirts worn at the local high school. Interesting on one level (if you're trying to turn a profit out of it), but also entirely meaningless.

From a sociological perspective, a Facebook "like" really has very little correlation to actual "liking" of something, or supporting a team, or whatever. By design, it's entirely about the level of "showing my friends what I think is cool". Which is kinda related, but not really. When the larger media looks into this, I laugh my ass off at how they think "likes" mean anything other than peacockery.

For the record, Iron Maiden is the highest selling band of all time according to my t-shirt survey.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

So remember that story at Bon Jovi got a banner hung at the ACC by MLSE - things are starting to become a lot clearer

Jon Bon Jovi (teaming up with Larry Tennenbaum and MLSE) have emerged as the leading contender to buy the Buffalo Bills and move them to Toronto.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/footba...lls_kelly.html

[Berklon]

Sweet... I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I'm crossing my fingers.

That would be a big plus for the city of Toronto - something that brings it into the big leagues in sports cities by having 4 major sports teams.

[red-paladin]

UM... CFL is a major league... That's why I hope no NFL team ever comes to Canada.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Sweet... I'm not holding my breath or anything, but I'm crossing my fingers.

That would be a big plus for the city of Toronto - something that brings it into the big leagues in sports cities by having 4 major sports teams.

Ugh NFL in Toronto. Yet another reason to absolutely hate the city.

Please god let this not happen; do not want that over-commercialized American circle-jerk in my country.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Some more news on the Bills/Bon Jovi story

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle15581107/

Bob Hunter, who was MLSE’s chief facilities and live entertainment officer, was put in charge of two special projects. These projects are so important to Tanenbaum and Leiweke that Justina Klein was recently brought back for a second stint at MLSE to do Hunter’s old job.

Hunter is now in charge of two things – redesigning BMO Field to accommodate both Toronto FC, MLSE’s soccer team, and the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL, who would be most affected by Hunter’s second project. And that task is to design an NFL-style stadium to accommodate the Bills. So far, we’re told, there is a design for a stadium that would cost $600-million but our informants say that won’t get much these days and the final number will be closer to $1-billion plus another $1-billion (U.S.) or so to buy the Bills, making this a $2-billion play.

That takes this deal out of the league of Bon Jovi, who is undoubtedly lobbying hard for a team and has some interesting friends aside from Tanenbaum and Leiweke, such as New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft. But NFL bylaws say the majority owner has to have at least 30 per cent of the equity in the franchise.

Since Bon Jovi’s net worth is estimated to be around $300-million (U.S.), this means writing a cheque for the equal of his net worth is not possible. Hence Bon Jovi’s chumminess with Tanenbaum and Leiweke, whose daughter Francesca is reported to be working for the rock star in his quest.

However, those who know all the characters in this drama think the real player in this could be Edward Rogers, whose family is behind Rogers Communications Inc., which is the co-majority owner of MLSE along with BCE Inc. Rogers Communications has been chasing an NFL team for years with the help of Tanenbaum, who owns the other 25 per cent of MLSE.

The Rogers family’s net worth is estimated at $6.41-billion, which dwarfs even Tanenbaum and makes Bon Jovi a small player. Some insiders see Edward Rogers, 44, emerging as the majority owner in a bid with Tanenbaum and Bon Jovi, who is certainly handy as a front man for now, taking minority stakes. Indeed, there are already whispers of friction among the trio over just who will be the major player.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Similar capacity? (if you can answer that without being "silenced" by the IO cops )

I'd love to see the alternates some day, though I doubt we will get the chance given the secrecy of the bidding process (and probably also because the bids covered the other facilities at Milton and YorkU)

Yes - it was a similar capacity. All 3 proponents met the guidelines of designing a stadium with a minimum capacity of 22,500 (80% of which are between the goal-lines)

[elly63]

Bon Jovi, MLSE livin' on prayers if they envision Toronto Bills before 2020
John Kryk, QMI Agency November 24, 2013

If rocker Jon Bon Jovi ever does wind up leading a group including MLSE that buys the Buffalo Bills, the franchise couldn't relocate to Toronto before 2020.

At least not without coughing up another $400 million. To shoot the entire price tag over $2 billion.

Talk about living on a prayer.

It would cost $400 million to buy the Bills out of their new 10-year lease at Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park, N.Y.

...

Jim Kelly, the team's star quarterback in the late 1980s and early 1990s, is said to be involved with a local group intent on buying the franchise and keeping it in Buffalo.

As NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is a native of Western New York, a local group presumably would be given every chance to keep the team in Buffalo.

Bon Jovi's personal net worth is about $300 million, according to a posting at Forbes.com. He'd have to sink a huge chunk of his fortune into the endeavour, at least if he wanted to become principal owner.

Even if the Bon Jovi/MLSE group were to purchase the Bills after Wilson's death, they'd almost certainly keep the club based in Buffalo through this decade, because of the lease deal.

The Bills signed their reworked lease of Ralph Wilson Stadium last December with Erie County and the state of New York. In exchange for $130 million in stadium upgrades, the county and state insisted on a penalty for breaking the lease before its expiry after the 2022 season -- $400 million worth.

There's an asterisk, however. The club can relocate the team in a brief, one-time window following Year 7 of the lease -- that is, after the 2019 season -- for only a $29-million penalty.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Ugh NFL in Toronto. Yet another reason to absolutely hate the city.

Please god let this not happen; do not want that over-commercialized American circle-jerk in my country.

Methinks NFL has nothing to do with your pre-conceived and irrational hatred.

Oh well, another case of little brother syndrome.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Methinks NFL has nothing to do with your pre-conceived and irrational hatred.

Oh well, another case of little brother syndrome.

What I don't understand is your wannabe Americanism.

The NFL is junk. Worse, it's junk that everyone in Toronto seems to desperately want, but then noone wants to actually go to games (for ridiculous reasons like 'the Bills suck' or 'it's not our team'; both of which are highly indicative of a weak hardcore fanbase).

We may suffer from 'little brother syndrome', but Toronto is guilty of a Little Napoleon Complex, seemingly exuding a desperate neediness for 'the big show'; like a prized ornament on the shelf.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

What I don't understand is your wannabe Americanism.

The NFL is junk. Worse, it's junk that everyone in Toronto seems to desperately want, but then noone wants to actually go to games (for ridiculous reasons like 'the Bills suck' or 'it's not our team'; both of which are highly indicative of a weak hardcore fanbase).

We may suffer from 'little brother syndrome', but Toronto is guilty of a Little Napoleon Complex, seemingly exuding a desperate neediness for 'the big show'; like a prized ornament on the shelf.

That's your opinion. A lot of people would suggest otherwise

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

What I don't understand is your wannabe Americanism.

The NFL is junk. Worse, it's junk that everyone in Toronto seems to desperately want, but then noone wants to actually go to games (for ridiculous reasons like 'the Bills suck' or 'it's not our team'; both of which are highly indicative of a weak hardcore fanbase).

We may suffer from 'little brother syndrome', but Toronto is guilty of a Little Napoleon Complex, seemingly exuding a desperate neediness for 'the big show'; like a prized ornament on the shelf.

First of all lol, I think I'm the least wannabe-American Torontonian in existence. Screw the States and screw the NFL, I think it's boring and like CFL better.

However I will defend my city from mindless hatred from inferiority complex-driven people from the rest of the country who have no idea how things work here.

The Bills series sold out, but after the initial allure and hype people aren't going as much anymore because it's one of the most transparent moneygrabs by Rogers out there.

You say Toronto is guilty of a "Napoleon complex", which makes me laugh because it implies Canada's largest and most significant city is actually small and insignificant (what does that make the city barely anyone outside of the country has heard of?), and you say desperate neediness for "the big show" as if ambition is a bad thing.

Personally I'm glad my city has actual ambition, instead of being content treading water in a sea of irrelevance.

That being said I don't want the NFL, I like my Argos.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

That's your opinion. A lot of people would suggest otherwise

Ed makes some valid points

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

First of all lol, I think I'm the least wannabe-American Torontonian in existence. Screw the States and screw the NFL, I think it's boring and like CFL better.

However I will defend my city from mindless hatred from inferiority complex-driven people from the rest of the country who have no idea how things work here.

The Bills series sold out, but after the initial allure and hype people aren't going as much anymore because it's one of the most transparent moneygrabs by Rogers out there.

You say Toronto is guilty of a "Napoleon complex", which makes me laugh because it implies Canada's largest and most significant city is actually small and insignificant (what does that make the city barely anyone outside of the country has heard of?), and you say desperate neediness for "the big show" as if ambition is a bad thing.

Personally I'm glad my city has actual ambition, instead of being content treading water in a sea of irrelevance.

That being said I don't want the NFL, I like my Argos.

Although I'm all for the NFL in Toronto (for the economic and tourism spinoffs and various other reasons) I agree wholeheartedly with TheArchitect's sentiments. I never knew till I came to the SSP Canada forum that there were so many haters in the RoC that would be so quick to put down a city for having ambition. I've lived across this country and never felt those sentiments myself toward Toronto when I lived in Vancouver and Ottawa. Many hardcore CFL fans seem to be quick to put down Toronto with such emotion and anger for thinking about bringing a team to their city that they would probably kill to have in their own (if they could sustain it). Then they deny that they even need Toronto in the CFL ("f*** those American wannabes, etc." lol) despite their clearly emotional and venomous reaction that says something otherwise! Toronto is easily the least American city I've been to within English-speaking Canada, probably why the CFL has less popular support here though we have a respectable team. This is not a football culture just yet. That being said it could sustain an NFL team the same way it's sustaining every other league in this city no matter how bad the team is because we have the population and the money, period. Anyone who says otherwise despite all the evidence to the contrary is free to wallow in their stupidity.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by elly63

Ed makes some valid points

I’m not saying he doesn’t.

I’m a Giants fan and I watched the Grey Cup game instead the Giants/Cowboys game.

People can like both CFL and NFL equally