[Saint John] Port Development

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I like Wayne a lot and appreciate the tone and information contained in this statement, but this is very revisionist history. There were a lot of people very vocally opposed to the AIM location from the start, but in the communities nearby (South End and Lower West) but also within City Hall. This was back in the PlanSJ initiation era and it was very clear at the time that AIM was using the Port's federal lands to get around the city's Industrial zoning regulations and avoiding paying the fair taxes for services that they should have owed for being a high-risk industrial operation. Noise, air and water pollution, and traffic were all concerns voiced at the time, and there was even attempted action taken through SJ Energy to try and deny AIM the power lines they needed to operate because it was seen as a bad development for the centre of the city.

I remember being in public meetings - and private ones too - where AIM and Herb Black were explicitly asked about fire risks and environmental concerns, and both were brushed off as alarmist and irrelevant because "we are a recycling company" or "it's just scrap metal". My point is that a great many people, including those in leadership positions, knew this was going to hamper our urban core's potential for rejuvenation or become a safety liability, but it was pushed through during a very low point in the city's historic and now we're stuck with these bad actors.

Do you know how much in taxes they actually pay to the city, province, or port?

Is it publicly available information, or just bundled in with the taxes the Port contributes to the city/province?

I think it might shock people how little in taxes this operation is actually paying towards the city... the houses on Marketplace West alone might even end up contributing more than AIM does entirely.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Do you know how much in taxes they actually pay to the city, province, or port?

Is it publicly available information, or just bundled in with the taxes the Port contributes to the city/province?

I think it might shock people how little in taxes this operation is actually paying towards the city... the houses on Marketplace West alone might even end up contributing more than AIM does entirely.

Port pays zero tax

[IMG][/IMG]

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Port pays zero tax

[IMG][/IMG]

that can't be right...

[IMG][/IMG]



you've seem to clicked on the harbour passage.. but this also seems way too low to be right. https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?lang=en&pan=01658351

The Port and AIM surely contributes revenue to the city of Saint John...

[cdnguys]

Under the Canadian Constitution Act 1867, property of the government of Canada or the provincial government is not liable to taxation by the other level of government. 420 Watson St that you selected above is the privately held Crosby Molasses facility / storage tanks. It’s called PILT instead of paying taxes (payment in lieu of taxes). Potash rail lines and storage is privately held and they pay about $530,000 in taxes.

[cdnguys]

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-...stand-eng.html

[IMG][/IMG]

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-...stand-eng.html

[IMG][/IMG]

Wait so how much does the port contribute per year in lieu of taxes? Not really clear based on that graph… surely it must be in the millions? 😶

Sounds like AIM is getting the deal of the century by operating on federally owned land, instead of an industrial park where they belong.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Wait so how much does the port contribute per year in lieu of taxes? Not really clear based on that graph… surely it must be in the millions? ������

Sounds like AIM is getting the deal of the century by operating on federally owned land, instead of an industrial park where they belong.

Sorry was cut off, it’s number of thousands so $808,000

[Ottawa]

I wonder if NBSR charges a dangerous cargo surtax. It is quite obviously dangerous. Whatever surcharge they may have been charging should be reconsidered ASAP due to recent events. They probably haven't been charging enough. CPKC, CN, and CSX, etc. might want to investigate their liabilities as well carrying AIM cargo. They are possibly way more liable than they understand.

Ship transporters of this stuff might want to check that their insurance covers liabilities from dangerous goods like what AIM handles. That could be massive. Full auto carriers have been abandoned at sea due to dangerous cargo fires similar to this. Imagine if that happens.

I doubt an "ironclad" contract with the Canadian federal government counts for much once that stuff is out of the port. Especially downtown of any major metropolitan areas outside of Canada.

Insurance companies with potential liabilities should review recent events to make sure they are looking after their interests.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I wonder if NBSR charges a dangerous cargo surtax. It is quite obviously dangerous. Whatever surcharge they may have been charging should be reconsidered due to recent events. They probably haven't been charging enough. CPKC, CN, and CSX, etc. might want to investigate their liabilities as well carrying AIM cargo.

Ship transport of this stuff might want to check that their insurance covers liabilities from dangerous goods. That could be massive.

An "ironclad" contract is worth nothing off federal land.

Interesting read
https://www.nbmrailways.com/globalas...--jan-2021.pdf

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Interesting read
https://www.nbmrailways.com/globalas...--jan-2021.pdf

It's up to every organization to determine what risk they feel comfortable with. Everybody determines who they deal with.

Has AIM issued a public statement? I haven't heard or seen anything from them.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Sorry was cut off, it’s number of thousands so $808,000

Thanks, and that’s directly given to SJ? Or shared between SJ and NB gov? Less than a million dollars a year seems petty pitiful honestly, for one of Canada’s biggest ports.

People like to complain the Irving Oil Refinery is undertaxed, which it is… but they still contribute $5 million a year in taxes. If AIM is only a fraction of an $800k contribution, in lieu of taxes— we’re getting beyond a bad deal by hosting their filthy operations on our harbourfront. We need to see a change.

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

It's up to every organization to determine what risk they feel comfortable with. Everybody determines who they deal with.

Has AIM issued a public statement? I haven't heard or seen anything from them.

I've only seen him quoted in one CBC article:

AIM CEO Herb Black said the fire was not caught early because the company was hacked last spring, and security cameras have been down. He said the fire was eventually spotted by a lone mechanic overnight.

"I'm instituting plans that it can never happen again," Black said.

When asked if AIM had any contingency plans in place to make up for the cameras being down, he said: "I'm not in the mood for you to dig into my problems right now. It's a major problem. I regret it happening and there's nothing I could do about the past."

[Ottawa]

Checked some historic reports on AIM. There are plenty.

One from June 2, 2019 at https://globalnews.ca/news/5344083/a...ty-saint-john/

"The American Iron & Metal facility at the Port of Saint John will continue to operate for at least another six months, after receiving approval from the New Brunswick government.

News of the approval was announced on Friday evening, defeating — at least temporarily — a request from the City of Saint John and other community groups to move the American Iron & Metal (AIM) shredding facility."

AND, imagine that! There was disapproval from the City and community groups.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

I've only seen him quoted in one CBC article:

The best option I can think of is a civil lawsuit by the city against AIM seeking damages (both actual and punitive) on the basis of gross negligence and careless disregard in the operation of their facility. Drag out the proceedings. Make it really expensive for them to (legally) continue to operate in Saint John.

Essentially drive them out of the city (with legal pitchforks).

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The best option I can think of is a civil lawsuit by the city against AIM seeking damages (both actual and punitive) on the basis of gross negligence and careless disregard in the operation of their facility. Drag out the proceedings. Make it really expensive for them to (legally) continue to operate in Saint John.

Essentially drive them out of the city (with legal pitchforks).

I am not sure that this approach makes sense. AIM's owner has much much deeper pockets than the City of SJ, and if AIM feels the Cities cases is weak will just wait and recover damages from the City.

The only real solution is for the Federal government to step up and revoke the lease. It may cost them some money, but nothing on the scale of the federal government and it can be done quickly and efficiently. The city has essentially zero power in comparison to the power of the federal government.

That being said, Dominic Leblanc probably won't be motivated to lift a finger to help SJ so this may have to wait until the federal election is completed and Dom loses his power.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I am not sure that this approach makes sense. AIM's owner has much much deeper pockets than the City of SJ, and if AIM feels the Cities cases is weak will just wait and recover damages from the City.

The only real solution is for the Federal government to step up and revoke the lease. It may cost them some money, but nothing on the scale of the federal government and it can be done quickly and efficiently. The city has essentially zero power in comparison to the power of the federal government.

That being said, Dominic Leblanc probably won't be motivated to lift a finger to help SJ so this may have to wait until the federal election is completed and Dom loses his power.

I think the province holds all the cards with the operating certificate. Same idea roughly as MonctonRad, the province should do a thorough environmental assessment of the toxins that went into the harbour from the water runoff studying it over a 3 year period

[DyAm00394]

'AIM is a black eye on our community,' says Saint John mayor

” Donna Reardon says the health effects of last week's fire may not be known for years.

Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says "enough is enough."

She said American Iron and Metal will be getting a bill from the city for firefighting services for last week's blaze at the company's west side metal recycling plant.

The mayor isn't sure the city has ever done that before, "but this one's definitely going out."

Reardon said it will cover all of the personnel and equipment tied up for several days in battling the fire that started in the dockside recycling plant early Thursday morning.

"That's on port property. Our fire department is for our own property, for our municipality," she said.

"No, it's only reasonable for us to send a bill for this."

Reardon said the fire diverted city officials from trying to get ready for Hurricane Lee, which was eventually downgraded to a post-tropical storm by the time it reached the Fundy coast.

But when the fire raged on Thursday and into Friday, the city was preparing for a hurricane-force storm and needed all hands on deck, rather than dealing with a fire on federal land, said Reardon on Information Morning Saint John on Monday morning.

She said such an operation should never have been allowed to start so close to residential neighbourhoods and adjacent to a harbour that's so important to the tourism industry.

Later Monday morning, Reardon issued a written statement saying, "The land on which AIM operates is not city land, nor do we have any jurisdiction over regulating AIM operations, yet our residents and businesses are the ones suffering the consequences — the full severity of which we may only learn in months and years to come."

Reardon said AIM's location is "unacceptable and incompatible with our residential communities on both sides of the harbour, our tourism economy from the cruise industry, and our work to attract private investment to beautify our waterfront and create housing for our growing population."

She called AIM "a black eye on our community."

AIM was asked — by phone and email — for an interview, but no one had responded by publication time.

Reardon said the premier's promise of a thorough investigation with clear deadlines, including the first report within 24 hours of the incident, is "music to my ears."

CBC has asked the Environment Department for a copy of that report, but has not received a response to the request.

'The final straw'

Reardon said she's looking to the provincial and federal governments to hold AIM accountable. The operation sits on federal land, while the province issues the licence to operate.

"What we have though is a voice," said Reardon.

And she plans to be heard.

"I feel like this is the final straw."

CBC requested an interview with Environment Minister Gary Crossman, but he has not yet been made available.

There is a lot more you can read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...bill-1.6970177

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

'AIM is a black eye on our community,' says Saint John mayor



There is a lot more you can read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...bill-1.6970177

I just can’t see this place reopening. That’s a good point about bill for fire department - it’s not Saint John’s jurisdiction which makes me wonder why AIM doesn’t have a firefighting team like the refinery would have, even if it’s volunteer employees. JDI will want to be reimbursed also. This may be a legal mess and my hope is we can at least get the existing scrap removed from the site.

[MonctonRad]

The city of Saint John could also help enable a class action lawsuit against AIM. There were lots of businesses (especially restaurants) uptown that had to close during the inferno. There would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost business.

[cdnguys]

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Port Saint John
ABOUT
Statement on behalf of Premier Blaine Higgs of the Province of New Brunswick, and Port Saint John CEO Craig Bell Estabrooks regarding American Iron and Metal
As a result of the fire at AIM's premises on Sep. 14, 2023, a meeting was held this morning, Sep. 18, 2023, between the most senior levels of the Government of New Brunswick (Province) and Port Saint John (PSJ).

The Province and PSJ agreed as follows:

● The province and PSJ will appoint a joint task force to investigate the latest events at AIM, to examine all aspects of the situation.

In addition to the previous, the following events occurred:

● Under sections 5 and 19 of Port Authorities Operations Regulations (SOR/2000-55, Canada Marine Act), PSJ has restricted activities at the terminal where the fire occurred; only emergency operations directly related to stabilizing the site are permitted. These instructions will remain in place until the investigation is complete.

● PSJ is also investigating AIM's compliance with the terms and conditions of their lease.

● The province has suspended AIM's Approval to Operate and directed it to cease activities until a full investigation and review is complete.

“The Province of New Brunswick remains committed to ensuring that a full and thorough investigation will take place,” said Premier Blaine Higgs. “We are very thankful no one was injured or hurt at the site during the incident. All operations at AIM continue to be suspended. The citizens of Saint John and our province deserve answers, and we will work diligently to provide them. I have directed the Clerk of the Executive Council, Cheryl Hansen, to work with the Port of Saint John on the task force. As there are multiple departments and arms of government involved to effectively investigate this situation with AIM, it was deemed appropriate that the Clerk would be best positioned to lead the Government of New Brunswick side of the task force.

“First and foremost, community safety is paramount to us, as well as being a good neighbour to the people of Saint John,” said Bell Estabrooks. “Since signing the lease with the operator of this site in 2011, many things have changed. Port Saint John never envisioned the series of explosions, fires, accidents and tragic deaths that have occurred. We are steadfast in our commitment to the health and safety of our community.”

MEDIA CONTACT:
Corporate communications, Executive Council Office, media-medias@gnb.ca.
Patrick Beamish, external affairs manager, Port Saint John, pbeamish@sjport.com.
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