LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, the land must be sold at fair market value. The NCC is not in the business of giving our public land away.

Treasury Board allows land to be transferred for a "public purpose" at a value other than market value if certain conditions are met.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Treasury Board allows land to be transferred for a "public purpose" at a value other than market value if certain conditions are met.

That would, or should, exclude condos and a private sports entertainment facility, no?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think that we might find that the aqueduct is historic and can not be substantially altered. It, from what I heard at the Open house, will be 'restored'; probably meaning just rebuilding the stone banks.

Also, the historic stone bridges over the aqueduct are too low for anyone to pass under them - say, while skating or riding in a Gondola.

I might be wrong, however, and maybe it is possible to enlarge the aqueduct between the bridges. I think both groups talked about modifying 'the Basin'.

One thing they could do is relocate all the pipes that actually now supply the pumping station and make the aqueduct a purely decorative feature. I believe there is a parallel second covered aqueduct just to the north (you can see its footprint on Google maps as an unexcavated line), and everything could be integrated there. This would allow complete control of the water levels, and maybe even filter/treat the water as a closed system no longer connected to the river. The stone bridges might be heritage protected, but I doubt the the aqueduct and its banks strictly are, since there have been so much alteration/intervention over the years.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That would, or should, exclude condos and a private sports entertainment facility, no?

Sure, but affordable housing and community rinks might fit in there. And any other "Nationally Significant" project they might add to the mix could also tip the scales.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

One thing they could do is relocate all the pipes that actually now supply the pumping station and make the aqueduct a purely decorative feature. I believe there is a parallel second covered aqueduct just to the north (you can see its footprint on Google maps as an unexcavated line), and everything could be integrated there. This would allow complete control of the water levels, and maybe even filter/treat the water as a closed system no longer connected to the river. The stone bridges might be heritage protected, but I doubt the the aqueduct and its banks strictly are, since there have been so much alteration/intervention over the years.

My guess is that they might fit the pipes in or next to the subway tunnel.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

I recently learned about Cheonggyecheon, a linear park that features a reclaimed stream in the middle of Seoul, South Korea, and thought about how much it resembles RendezVous Lebreton's proposal for the aqueduct.

http://inhabitat.com/how-the-cheonggyecheon-river-urban-design-restored-the-green-heart-of-seoul/

For comparison. Lanterns on that last one remind me of the holograms.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

That would, or should, exclude condos and a private sports entertainment facility, no?

Not if it believes (and convinces treasury board) it is in the public interest to have the land developed a certain way or with certain features or amenities.

If they just wanted market value they could have auctioned the site to the highest bidder.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My guess is that they might fit the pipes in or next to the subway tunnel.

The LRT ROW is too high and too much of a detour for water. The second aqueduct is already there, under Ottawa Street with is to the right of the rendering. They can't build on top of it, it is one of the restrictions of the site.

[rocketphish]

Former MPs call on NCC to revisit LeBreton bid process

Aedan Helmer, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 6, 2016 | Last Updated: June 6, 2016 7:55 AM EDT

Two prominent former Parliamentarians are putting aside their party ties and calling on the National Capital Commission to revisit the rules around the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats.

In a joint opinion piece published in the Citizen on Monday, former Conservative MP John Baird and former Liberal MP John Manley — both former high-profile Ottawa-area cabinet ministers — are asking the NCC to consider the best elements of both competing bids for the “legacy” project planned for 21.6 hectares of long-dormant downtown land along the Ottawa River.

While the NCC said both bids — one submitted by Devcore Canderel DLS, the other from Eugene Melnyk’s RendezVous LeBreton — scored high enough to qualify for consideration, the rules dictate that only the bid that scored highest would win first negotiation rights.

That distinction went to Melnyk’s bid, with a downtown NHL arena and future home of the Ottawa Senators as its centrepiece, in a grand reveal in late April.

But calling the redevelopment of such prime real estate a “once-in-a-generation opportunity” that will “transform the face of Ottawa for generations to come,” Baird and Manley underscored the importance of getting the project right.

Under the current rules, say Baird and Manley, “there is a real risk of getting it wrong.”

The politicians propose a marriage of the best ideas contained within both competing bids, an ideal they say is difficult to achieve under the current rules that govern the bidding process.

The two competing proposals were unveiled in January, attracting more than 3,000 people to an open house, while the NCC received another 8,000 responses to an online questionnaire about the bids.

Both proposals include plans for a downtown arena and a new central library, as well as residential, commercial and retail components, but differ wildly in their vision for the site.

The bidders were forbidden from speaking with each other during the selection process to prevent collusion, and were only afforded a brief window, which closed at midnight May 4, to discuss their bids publicly.

In an interview with Postmedia during that window, officials with RendezVous LeBreton indicated they were open to holding talks with the runner-up Devcore Canderel DLS Group about adding some elements to its own bid.

Fred Waks, president and CEO of Trinity Development Group, master planner and builder with RendezVous LeBreton, said officials would “probably be reaching out” to DCDLS, indicating a particular interest in the proposal for a Ripley’s Aquarium to be incorporated into the site.

Waks said wherever those discussions lead, the group won’t deviate dramatically from its winning bid.

In an interview at the same time, Jean-Pierre Poulin, president of Gatineau-based Devcore, said it would be “unreasonable” for the RendezVous LeBreton group to contemplate incorporating elements of the competing DCDLS bid, since both submissions remain in the running.

Baird and Manley, meanwhile, are calling for “a creative solution to this process.”

They suggest the intervention of Heritage Minister Melanie Joly, who is responsible for the NCC, and local MPs, including Ottawa-Centre MP Catherine McKenna.

“The public interest demands the best possible development for our nation’s capital,” the opinion piece reads. “In our view, the way to achieve that goal is to merge the best components of the two projects.”

With files from Don Butler

[email protected]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/former-mps-call-on-ncc-to-revisit-lebreton-bid-process

[rocketphish]

A novel way to get LeBreton right

John Baird,
John Manley,
Published on: June 6, 2016 | Last Updated: June 6, 2016 7:56 AM EDT

After 50 long years, there is now a real sense of excitement that progress is finally being made for the long-neglected LeBreton Flats. The planned redevelopment of the area will be the single largest urban project of its kind in Canada today and perhaps in North America, representing more than 53 acres in the heart of the nation’s capital.

It is a project that will transform the face of Ottawa for generations to come. It will require investments of billions of dollars from the private sector, with the people of Canada as the beneficiaries. This endeavour is not a normal run-of-the-mill National Capital Commission (NCC) project. It will be a legacy of the national government for all Canadians. We have before us a once-in-a-generation opportunity, for our region and for our country, and we need to get it right.

However, with the direction in which we are currently heading, there is a real risk of getting it wrong.

This has to be about more than building just another urban community, or adding 8,000 more condos that may take decades to sell and build. As residents of Ottawa, we have a greater responsibility and an obligation to showcase the very best for the capital of our great country.

This past April, the NCC announced that the two remaining proponents to redevelop the lands had both scored high enough to qualify for the final stage of the process. Both groups brought forward impressive submissions. The RendezVous LeBreton Group project includes a state-of-the-art NHL arena that would be the new home of the Ottawa Senators, supported by a modern urban residential development, as well as an abilities centre for all ages. The Devcore Canderel DLS Group proposal features creative museums and attractions, as well as community anchors such as a YMCA, a school and Canadian-branded retail shops, all linked by accessible green space.

We can only imagine that a decision to select just one of these bids must have been a great challenge for the committee tasked with making the final recommendation to the NCC board. According to the rules of the bidding process, the NCC is required to negotiate first with the highest-scoring proponent – RendezVous LeBreton Group. If those negotiations fail, the NCC would turn to the other proponent. But why must we settle for just one project at the exclusion of the finest components of the other? Bearing in mind the national significance of the initiative, why not combine the best of each proposal?

The process that is underway risks achieving a suboptimal result despite the genuine goodwill and hard work of the NCC and all of those involved. During the bidding process, the bidders were prohibited from talking to each other, to prevent collusion. But the rule against such discussions makes no sense now that the bidding process is over. The NCC’s decision to negotiate with only one proponent means that there is currently no way for it even to consider combining the best of both projects.

As former elected representatives serving the residents of the National Capital Region for the past several decades (from both sides of the political aisle), we believe that the federal government has an obligation – not only to the people of Ottawa, but to the people of Canada – to find a path forward that will give us the very best result. Based on our own experiences as Ottawa-area ministers serving in different cabinets, we also believe there is a creative solution to this process.

The NCC itself can come to the conclusion that there is considerable merit in marrying the best of both proposals. The Commission’s own Request for Proposals gives it wide discretion to make changes even at this stage. If the NCC does not want to act, the minister responsible for the NCC, Mélanie Joly, and local MPs (including our most senior minister, Catherine McKenna) should get involved. Indeed, Cabinet has the authority, on the advice of the minister of Heritage, to provide a directive to the NCC if it “is of the opinion that it is in the public interest to do so.”

The public interest demands the best possible development for our nation’s capital – a destination that will inspire the millions who come here each year, and attract new visitors from all over the world. In our view, the way to achieve that goal is to merge the best components of the two projects. We urge all MPs in Ottawa, and both ministers, to do what is necessary to make this happen.

John Baird represented the riding of Ottawa West-Nepean as the member of Parliament from 2006-2015 serving in several cabinet roles, including as the minister responsible for the NCC.

John Manley represented the riding of Ottawa South as the member of Parliament from 1988-2004 serving in several cabinet roles, including as Deputy Prime Minister.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/baird-and-manley-a-novel-way-to-get-lebreton-right

[kwoldtimer]

Is it just me that finds it annoying that that report doesn't outline what Baird and Manley see as the best elements of the two proposals?

[zzptichka]

Wait, Baird is complaning about Lebreton process? The guy who oversaw the Victims of Communism memorial fiasco?
As well as Holocaust memorial monstrosity?
This guy?

Originally Posted by http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/how-a-project-to-honour-the-victims-of-communism-became-a-brutalist-5-5-million-symbol-of-political-bullying

Asked about the site switch, Rabbi Daniel Friedman, chair of the Holocaust monument’s development council, said only that former cabinet minister John Baird ultimately decided where the monument should go. “It was the minister’s decision,” he said. “We were shown different options but we are a committee and the committee’s made up of multiple thoughts and ideas.”

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Is it just me that finds it annoying that that report doesn't outline what Baird and Manley see as the best elements of the two proposals?

No. I also wonder where they were when this process was beginning two+ years ago.

If you decide to go the competitive route, this doesn't work, unless you have the proponents divide their bids up into various parts and make it a condition of the process that you can select more than one proponent for different parts of the project. Right now they are still in a competitive position.

Dividing things up tends to lead to worse financial terms overall though, that said, there is nothing to stop Rendez-Vous from dealing directly with DevCore and getting rights to some of their partners.

[acottawa]

Wasn't Baird the minister when the NCC developed this process?

Also, taking the "best ideas" (which presumably means the amenities) from both projects creates a whole lot of cost with limited revenue. If the government is willing to kick in the hundreds of millions to pay for all of these amenities without the residential, retail and office space to provide revenue then that should have been made clear before the competition started. A competition of "here's a billion dollars, propose something cool" would have probably received more entrants than "here's a chunk of land, we want you to pay for the land, clean it up, and then build something."

I suspect Demarais and gang called in a few favours to try to muddy the waters as part of their efforts to get cabinet to overturn the NCC decision.

[McC]

As I said before, the easy solution is offer DevCore the neighbouring federal lands at Bayview and Oak St and see what they'd do with them. Get a little friendly competition going between the two consortia.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by McC

As I said before, the easy solution is offer DevCore the neighbouring federal lands at Bayview and Oak St and see what they'd do with them. Get a little friendly competition going between the two consortia.

Do you think they can cram their wind tunnel, auto museum, media centre and aquarium in there?

[McC]

a good few of them, anyway. And if they run out of room with those 2 sites, there's also the big national institution-sized properties north of the Holocaust Memorial and north of Dow's Lake.

[loga0082]

Originally Posted by phil235

Do you think they can cram their wind tunnel, auto museum, media centre and aquarium in there?

I do not know either in how they can build a wind tunnel, auto museum, media centre and aquarium in an area like Lebreton Flats. The area does not look that big for me to build all that stuff. They also want to build a stadium and even a YMCA. These type of buildings require a lot of space, especially a museum, an aquarium, a media centre, and wind tunnel. The LRT is suppose to pass there and they also thinking of building restaurants and condos. Would the aquarium consist of seals, dolphins, and fish?

[rocketphish]

NCC not swayed, sticks with plan to negotiate on Sens' bid for LeBreton Flats

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 6, 2016 | Last Updated: June 6, 2016 5:56 PM EDT

Two political big shots aren’t budging the National Capital Commission off course in planning the future of LeBreton Flats.

Former Ottawa MPs John Baird and John Manley wrote in an opinion piece this week that the NCC should take the best elements from the RendezVous LeBreton Group and Devcore Candarel DLS proposals to redevelop LeBreton Flats.

Before leaving politics, Baird helped kickstart the LeBreton competition when he oversaw the NCC.

NCC spokesman Nicholas Galletti said the agency is following a “robust competitive solicitation process” that’s in the best interests of the public and the proponents.

Galletti defended the NCC’s current process of working exclusively with RendezVous after ranking the bids.

“The NCC remains satisfied with this process and will continue to work with the highest ranked proponent, RendezVous LeBreton Group,” Galletti said Monday. “It reserves the right to negotiate with the second-highest ranked proponent, if necessary.”

Baird and Manley fear there’s “a real risk of getting it wrong” and they call on the NCC to combine the best parts of each proposal to avoid a “suboptimal result.” They suggest Heritage Minister Melanie Joly, who oversees the NCC, and Ottawa Centre MP Catherine McKenna, the city’s minister in cabinet, should take up the issue.

Joly’s spokesperson echoed the NCC’s comments.

RendezVous won the right to negotiate with the NCC after the Ottawa Senators-led group convinced the federal agency its vision is better than the one pitched by Devcore Canderal DLS.

The RendezVous proposal includes an NHL arena, abilities centre and mixed-use communities. The NCC liked that RendezVous commits to putting a roof over the city’s LRT line that runs through the site.

The Devcore Canderel DLS proposal featured several attractions, such as an aquarium, air pavilion and skatepark. The group also wanted to build an NHL-calibre rink in the last phase of development.

Daniel Peritz, a senior vice-president at Canderel, said his group took note of the insights offered by Baird and Manley.

“We found the piece written by the former federal ministers to be very thoughtful, and they have proposed a very creative idea,” Peritz said. “We welcome all constructive ideas which will bring about the best possible project on LeBreton Flats.”

RendezVous spokesman Brian Morris said his group will comply with NCC rules and not comment on the Baird-Manley story.

“Both DCDLS and our group, RendezVous LeBreton, are in an ongoing competitive federal government procurement process with very clear rules of conduct,” Morris said. “RendezVous LeBreton is committed to fully respecting and complying with the NCC’s rules and we will not be offering any comment. Our efforts remain focused exclusively on our bid and achieving the key NCC deliverables that our part of the current phase of the process.”

There are still several months until the public sees a firm deal to build at LeBreton Flats. After the feds sign off on an agreement, which might not happen until 2018, the city has to approve the necessary zoning changes.

The NCC is scheduled to report back in November on its progress negotiating with RendezVous.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...negotiate-on-sens-bid-for-lebreton-flats

[J.OT13]

The old Conservative guard (Baird and Poilievre) have lost all credibility with the BS they pulled as ministers with no consultations and constant straw man arguments to defend their positions (Victims of Communism Monument and giving a chunk of the Experimental Farm to the Civic amongst other things).

The winning bidder for LB needs the complete site to make their plan financially viable. We can't pick and choose. They decided, back during Baird's reign of terror, that it would be a competition, not a white paper consultation for ideas. We can't go back at this point.

[ars]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Wait, Baird is complaning about Lebreton process? The guy who oversaw the Victims of Communism memorial fiasco?
As well as Holocaust memorial monstrosity?
This guy?

Exactly my thoughts as well.

This quote was particularly ironic considering what went on with the Victims of Communism memorial fiasco:

But calling the redevelopment of such prime real estate a “once-in-a-generation opportunity” that will “transform the face of Ottawa for generations to come,” Baird and Manley underscored the importance of getting the project right.