Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[EastK]

I drive through both intersections at least once a week and I can tell you the number 3 intersection is by far the busier one. Not even close. However the Pipeline intersection is only going to get worse as there is a lot of residential construction happening both in Amber Trails and north or the Perimeter which will increase traffic going forward. Furthermore there is far more traffic on the North Perimeter which is probably why at least once a year someone dies or is badly hurt at that intersection.

Both definitely deserve an intersection though and in any other city you would never have a major highspeed road with lights on it like the perimeter. It is unreal how bad and backwards our roads are here.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by EastK

I drive through both intersections at least once a week and I can tell you the number 3 intersection is by far the busier one. Not even close. However the Pipeline intersection is only going to get worse as there is a lot of residential construction happening both in Amber Trails and north or the Perimeter which will increase traffic going forward. Furthermore there is far more traffic on the North Perimeter which is probably why at least once a year someone dies or is badly hurt at that intersection.

Both definitely deserve an intersection though and in any other city you would never have a major highspeed road with lights on it like the perimeter. It is unreal how bad and backwards our roads are here.

Not sure about more traffic. Maybe as a whole. But I know during peak use the north is far better to drive then the south. Pipeline does screw that up though. But the south between Rt90 and Hwy59 at peak hours is just a parking lot. It's the most exciting feeling to be flying over the Pembina overpass at 100 Kms to only be greeted by two lanes of completely stopped traffic all the way to st Mary's.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

It's the most exciting feeling to be flying over the Pembina overpass at 100 Kms to only be greeted by two lanes of completely stopped traffic all the way to st Mary's.

Ridiculous. And I have contacted MIT twice to consider lengthening the green cycle for perimiter traffic and they refuse. Even though St. Mary's completely clears both directions in one light cycle and the "high speed" perimeter traffic sits through numerous light cycles until they pass through. Then based on what direction they are travelling, are stopped again at either St Anne's or Kenaston. And/or the highly critical Waverly intersection.

It's truly pathetic that MIT refuses to alter light cycles to allow perimeter traffic to flow.

[Biff]

The Province just awarded the South Perimeter Hwy functional design project to WSP. Now I know that some of you will shit and say, "what are they doing, these are the clowns that fucked up the Sterling Lyon extension"

Remember - these engineers know what they are doing - it's the city and politicians that fucked up the Sterling Lyon project.

Anyways, good news that this is still chugging along.

[esquire]

^ At least the route is not up in the air like with Sterling Lyon. That minimizes the potential for shenanigans.

But two years for the functional design? Man. At the rate things are going, the new interchanges will open just in time for me to use them to get to my retirement party. And I'm only in my thirties.

[bomberjet]

Well there are differing opinions on WSP lol

Right now they're on an uber aggressive plan to essentially buy work by undercutting the competition. And by undercutting I mean almost 50% lower than the other consultants on this particular one. They've won like every project recently around Winnipeg and are on a hiring spree. That is not the best recipe for providing good quality work.

Sterling Lyon got a bit blown out of proportion. Their rogue plan was just a modification to an existing as some have pointed out.

WSP is the same consultant involved with the Marion Widening thing. Personally, I think that one got bunged up right from the start.

WSP is also the consultant who is undertaking the Eastern Corridor study for the City.

Hopefully it all works out, but honestly not holding my breath..

[bomberjet]

http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.htm...ve=&item=42532

WSP’s proposal was selected as it offered the best value for money of all proposals received, Schuler said,

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Well there are differing opinions on WSP lol

Right now they're on an uber aggressive plan to essentially buy work by undercutting the competition. And by undercutting I mean almost 50% lower than the other consultants on this particular one. They've won like every project recently around Winnipeg and are on a hiring spree. That is not the best recipe for providing good quality work.

Sterling Lyon got a bit blown out of proportion. Their rogue plan was just a modification to an existing as some have pointed out.

WSP is the same consultant involved with the Marion Widening thing. Personally, I think that one got bunged up right from the start.

WSP is also the consultant who is undertaking the Eastern Corridor study for the City.

Hopefully it all works out, but honestly not holding my breath..

Interesting, trying to pull off the undercut your competitors move like Walmart.

I'm hazy on the details about Marion but I feel like the company is an all-or-nothing kind of place. Basically if the project has to end up looking like an interstate or not at all. With Marion we saw that the design was way out of proportion for the needs, while sterling lyon would reasonably be expected to be grade separated and fully built to freeway standards, even if it means taking out a few houses. That won't be a bad thing for Perimeter highway.

I would also be cautious before blaming WSP and their designs. They probably follow requirements from their clients (CoW for marion and S.L.) which might not be the most clear given the disarray going on in public works.

[bomberjet]

They most certainly follow direction from the client.

I'll give them benefit of the doubt for now. But we're more likely to get bare bones type reports when undercutting like that.

They're also involved in other projects around town. Such as the pedestrian bridge study over the Assiniboine that is upcoming. They weren't as low of a bid on that project. but obviously the lowest to win the work.

[WildCake]

Public Info / consultation sessions will be held for south Perimeter

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pth100/index.html

http://news.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...cations-IT.pdf

There's also a global news article about it although it was confusing to read.

Seems like the focus of these meetings will be on the new Hwy 2/3 roundabout, and on the 26 gravel road access points - not the interchanges or intersections with lights. I wonder (and hope!) if they will move ahead of the functional design study due in a few years to build out service roads and shut down some of these gravel road access points.

[esquire]

^ All the red dots should be eliminated, and all the green dots should be turned into blue dots. Once that happens the South Perimeter will finally be brought up to 1970s expressway standards.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ All the red dots should be eliminated, and all the green dots should be turned into blue dots. Once that happens the South Perimeter will finally be brought up to 1970s expressway standards.

Hell anything is better than what we have now, even if only a handful of gravel roads are cut off.

Personal opinion of the top 3 worst uncontrolled accesses in question:
1. Melnick/Aimes clusterf*** between St Annes and 59 South
2. Brady Rd.
3. Oakland Road

probably all due to traffic volumes and narrow median that prevent even small cars to establish in the middle

Solution
1. Build services roads that cross the rail line and the seine river to st annes
2. Service road that runs to 330, or maybe even Waverley
3. Remove truck restrictions in Oak bluff and run it to McGillivray, no matter how much the NIMBYs cry

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Public Info / consultation sessions will be held for south Perimeter

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pth100/index.html

http://news.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...cations-IT.pdf

There's also a global news article about it although it was confusing to read.

Seems like the focus of these meetings will be on the new Hwy 2/3 roundabout, and on the 26 gravel road access points - not the interchanges or intersections with lights. I wonder (and hope!) if they will move ahead of the functional design study due in a few years to build out service roads and shut down some of these gravel road access points.

Making a significant improvement to the south perimeter would cost some money, but not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things over time. While interchanges are expensive, even 2 additional diamonds and the closure of at-grade intersections would do a lot for safety and flow. I think the following should be done at minimum:

1. Diamond or some other interchange at St. Mary's and the Perimeter (this should be #1 priority)
2. Close off the crossing at St. Annes and allow right in/right out only. St. Annes ends at the floodway anyway, the road doesn't go anywhere. Currently, it's just causing massive disruptions to flow for the benefit of a small minority of commuters who could just take a few extra minutes and go down Prairie Grove Road.
3. Close off the crossing at Waverly Street and the Perimeter. Why does this still exist now that Waverly north of the Perimeter doesn't even connect? Like St. Annes, any residents in Richmond Lakes who use this can take a few extra minutes to go to Pembina.
4. Interchange at Keneston and the Perimeter
5. Interchange in Oak Bluff.

Given the limited amount of funds available, and lack of willingness to invest in Infrastructure in this province, I'm not sure which one of 4 or 5 could happen sooner, but 1 through 3 above could be done for ~$100 million across a couple of years, and make a massive impact on the safety and flow of the south perimeter.

[bomberjet]

I don't quite understand the roundabout thing. It leads me to believe there will still be access to 101 from both 2 and 3. Which is silly.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I don't quite understand the roundabout thing. It leads me to believe there will still be access to 101 from both 2 and 3. Which is silly.

Agreed. Typical MIT half-baked goodness. How would it not simplify things to turn 2/3 into a T intersection with access only at McGillivray and 100?

And speaking of, is the "interstate-quality diamond interchange" ever going to happen?!

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by Winnipegger

Making a significant improvement to the south perimeter would cost some money, but not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things over time. While interchanges are expensive, even 2 additional diamonds and the closure of at-grade intersections would do a lot for safety and flow. I think the following should be done at minimum:

1. Diamond or some other interchange at St. Mary's and the Perimeter (this should be #1 priority)
2. Close off the crossing at St. Annes and allow right in/right out only. St. Annes ends at the floodway anyway, the road doesn't go anywhere. Currently, it's just causing massive disruptions to flow for the benefit of a small minority of commuters who could just take a few extra minutes and go down Prairie Grove Road.
3. Close off the crossing at Waverly Street and the Perimeter. Why does this still exist now that Waverly north of the Perimeter doesn't even connect? Like St. Annes, any residents in Richmond Lakes who use this can take a few extra minutes to go to Pembina.
4. Interchange at Keneston and the Perimeter
5. Interchange in Oak Bluff.

Given the limited amount of funds available, and lack of willingness to invest in Infrastructure in this province, I'm not sure which one of 4 or 5 could happen sooner, but 1 through 3 above could be done for ~$100 million across a couple of years, and make a massive impact on the safety and flow of the south perimeter.

I used to live in Richmond Lakes and I DID use the Waverly/Perimeter intersection but I agree, its weird. One option would be to allow vehicles to cross the Perimeter at Kenaston and take the service road to St Norbert (that runs between St Norbert and Brady Rd).

[CoryB]

The challenge with Kennaston/Waverly and the Perimeter is that is all tied into the St Norbert by-pass proposal. To solve any one piece there you need to look at the whole thing.

Also the standard for access to a limited access highway/freeway like what this forum commonly says the Perimeter should inspire to be points towards access around the 1 mile/2 KM point. The distance between St Marys and St Annes and St Annes and Lag points to St Annes meeting that criteria. Also eliminating left turns there doesn't seem totally feasible either so a diamond it will be. Also with proper deceleration and acceleration lanes St Marys does not need more than a diamond. The north/south through traffic there is almost non-existent making a full interchange unneeded.

In my travels in seems all the La Salle traffic is west to south, east to south or north to east. If the traffic study actually backed that that could potentially be a west to south flyover and closing the median meaning north to west would be lost. Could potentially do a reroute and sneak north to west traffic along the west side of the tracks near there and the Perimeter will eventually need to go over the rail line.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Hell anything is better than what we have now, even if only a handful of gravel roads are cut off.

Personal opinion of the top 3 worst uncontrolled accesses in question:
1. Melnick/Aimes clusterf*** between St Annes and 59 South
2. Brady Rd.
3. Oakland Road

probably all due to traffic volumes and narrow median that prevent even small cars to establish in the middle

Solution
1. Build services roads that cross the rail line and the seine river to st annes
2. Service road that runs to 330, or maybe even Waverley
3. Remove truck restrictions in Oak bluff and run it to McGillivray, no matter how much the NIMBYs cry

These proposed closures are such an encouraging thing to see. I swear that unlimited and as-direct as-possible access is one of the deepest of Manitoba's values. In rural areas, any sleep-deprived farmer can access most major highways with a combine every 1/2 miles (or less, along PTH 101). In some places on the side side of the Peremter, there is an approach every quarter mile.

(And of course this driveways for everyone -- everywhere! philosophy has a negative impact on urban streets, but that's another discussion.)

Even closing off access to the minor section roads will help. Today's dangerously busy highway intersections (with or without signals) were once yesterday's gravel roads. Stopping tomorrow's bedroom commuter-clogged crossings from being able to grow is a good, inexpensive fix. Good for MIT for finally deciding PTH 101 should function like a highway and not as some kind of rural stroad.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I swear that unlimited and as-direct as-possible access is one of the deepest of Manitoba's values. .

LOL couldn't have said it better myself

I remember reading a news article when the 59/101 interchange was in the consult phase. Some people were disappointed the access to pritchard farm road from Hwy 59 was being closed and thus were not happy with the whole project.

God forbid you have to drive an extra 900 meters to Birds Hill Road so you don't have to gamble crossing 2 lanes of 90 km/h traffic on a day to day basis

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Public Info / consultation sessions will be held for south Perimeter

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pth100/index.html

http://news.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...cations-IT.pdf

There's also a global news article about it although it was confusing to read.

Seems like the focus of these meetings will be on the new Hwy 2/3 roundabout, and on the 26 gravel road access points - not the interchanges or intersections with lights. I wonder (and hope!) if they will move ahead of the functional design study due in a few years to build out service roads and shut down some of these gravel road access points.

Anybody know if, where, when the open house information will be available online? There's nothing on the Province website.