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  #15581  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 1:10 PM
TheGeographer TheGeographer is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvland View Post
You really need to get out more. To see the bar scene you need to, you know, go out to bars. That's how it works. That's also how I know you dont go out to bars, or at least very infrequently. The good ones, and many of the not so good ones, are absolutely SLAMMED on weekends. I own several bars here and so do a number of other forum members. Many of our bars in SLC do volumes that match or exceed what bars in Manhattan/LA etc do in $ PSF. I know because I know lots of bar owners in other markets and I see their sales. Many of us have staked our lives on bars in Salt Lake City.

Speaking of the past, SLC has had a storied history of legendary bars and music venues. Many of us lament the passing of legacy places like the Zephyr, DV8, Dead Goat, Speedway Cafe, Port O Call (The number one tap beer sales location in the Western United States for over 10 consecutive years, read that again). Salt Lake City has always been a sneaky fun bar town, albeit with quirky and backward stupid liquor laws. What we have is a weak CLUB scene. There's a difference there. But CLUBS aren't my thing so that doesn't really matter to me (it does to some). There are no less than 50 new bars and restaurants in the works in the downtown area. The attitude above is not helpful and frankly it's sort of ignorant. But all too common.

On the 1am thing I'd put it at or near the very bottom of my concerns for our liquor laws. 2am would be nice. But the percentage of trouble triples past 1am. I drink all over the world and many of the worlds best bars close at 11pm or 12am, especially in the UK and Europe. It's fine. Have a night cap at home. You'll thank me later.
There are some cool bars in SLC. And they serve high volumes. And there are some new bars opening downtown (going to take awhile to open up 50 with our limited licenses). And I agree, mostly bad things only happen after 1am, and what we lack are not necessarily bars but clubs. But what SLC lacks and will continue to lack is vibrancy, a nightlife and people outside of the bars. My experiences are limited to some so I’m not going to claim to be an expert. But when I spent some time in Spain there would be hundreds of people outside in the plazas drinking and congregating well into the morning hours. Now, SLC city design and street scape will never allow this sort of vibe, but it could get closer. Open up Main Street to pedestrian traffic only as a start. Block off a side street or two during some select weeks in the summer and turn it into an outdoor “festival”. Hell I’ve seen more people outside the bars and in the streets in downtown Laramie during their two week Jubalee Days then I’ve ever seen outside of one street in SLC (if you doubt me go find out for yourself). SLC needs to loosen things up outside of the bars and let some festivities occur to bring some vibrancy downtown. Street festivals that allow drinking in the street actually bring even more business to the bars adjacent to the festivities. So it’s a win win for all business wise. Staying holed up in a bar is fine during the winter obviously, but we could do a lot with our late daylight hours and warm weather outside of the bars in the summer. The other thing we lose out on is not having a concentration of nightlife or bars in one area thanks to our antiquated laws. Think Beale street in Memphis. Everything is so spread out in SLC downtown, and walking one block is like walking three in most other cities. Imagine if there were more bars and clubs along Main Street. I see no reason why they shouldn’t. Last time I checked half the retail space was sitting vacant and dilapidated along Main anyways.

Last edited by TheGeographer; Apr 18, 2023 at 1:23 PM.
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  #15582  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 6:14 PM
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wrendog wrendog is offline
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Expansion team betting odds:

City Odds Implied Probability
Nashville +150 46.5%
Charlotte +300 25.0%
Salt Lake City +350 22.2%
Portland +375 21.1%
Las Vegas +500 16.7%
Montreal +800 11.1%
San Antonio +1000 9.1%
Austin +1200 7.7%
The Field +1000 9.1%

This seems good. Charlotte and Nashville will battle for the spot in the east, so SLC should be the odds favorite on the west
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  #15583  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 8:15 PM
Takingnames Takingnames is offline
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Astra photos 4.18.2023

Few pics I took of Astra yesterday. Love seeing the new window installations high up on the south side.

https://imgur.com/dJ39Ip2

https://imgur.com/P75NcUg

https://imgur.com/kh5K1QN





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  #15584  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2023, 10:20 PM
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I don't think that's for a lack of trying, and I also don't really see how having another professional sports team would change that. I don't really think if the MLB comes to Salt Lake City that they're going to be competing for fans. You're either going to be fans of both of them, or just 1 of them because you either don't like one of the sports or you're already a fan of another MLB team. Maybe your level of investment in each could change depending on success, but if an MLB team comes in and is amazing very quickly and the Jazz are underwhelming, I don't see the Jazz suddenly losing a bunch of support just because there's a baseball team doing better. I don't think that's really how sports fandom works.
It's not necessarily competing for fans directly (tho, just based on Utah's size, it's certain they will have a significant overlap). Rather, it's about competing for interest. The Jazz have been the number one team in Utah for nearly 40 years (back when they came in 1979, you could reason the Golden Eagles were more popular). But that's largely due to the fact they've been the only major league show in town for a bulk of those years.

Utahns are a unique group of people. They love to rail against California and the more popular states but crave the attention of being a big league kind of town. The Jazz gave 'em that. It's the only real sport right now where they're on equal footing with Los Angeles or New York or other major US cities that wouldn't give Salt Lake a second thought. If you grew up in the late 90s, and experienced the Jazz vs Lakers WCF in 1998 (or the semifinals in 1997), you know exactly what I am talking about: for a moment, Salt Lake bested the giant that was LA.

I'm assuming it was similar in 1988 when the Jazz and Lakers duked it out in their epic seven-game semifinal series ... but that was before my time.

My point is that a MLB team creates a new outlet for that feeling. Now you've got the Dodgers and maybe the Yankees and Red Sox and Cubs and the Phillies and the Braves rolling into town (gotta love interleague play). Suddenly, the interest shifts. If that MLB team is more successful, especially in the postseason, it might garner more buzz than the frequently disappointing Jazz.

Next thing you know, this new MLB team is the king of the town and maybe Salt Lake starts shifting away from being a NBA-first city.

To be honest, I think there's a reason the Millers sold the Jazz and why they suddenly, not even a few years later, are interested in owning a MLB team. Initially, people thought they were selling to get out of the major league ownership - but I think the NBA's activism and general make-up demographically proved a challenge (not only to get talent to Salt Lake but placate a largely conservative fan base). There's no better example of this than Donovan Mitchell and his comments (whether you agree with them or not, it's still his perspective as a Black man) since leaving the Jazz.

A MLB team is not going to have that complexity. There isn't going to be as many protests or athletes speaking out about Black Lives Matter or events focused on a demographic that is almost foreign to Utah.

As of 2021, 73% of NBA players were Black. 16.8% were white.

In the MLB? 57.5% are white. Only 7.7% are Black.

Not only could it be easier to attract talent to Utah as a whole, again, you're not likely to see the politicalizing of the league like you've seen with the NBA (and to be clear: I have no problem with what the NBA has done, especially since it's one of the most recognizable institutions when it comes to racial breakdowns). But I'm not naive about Utah. Utah is one of the most conservative states in the country, only outpaced probably by Idaho, Wyoming and possibly Oklahoma. I know to a lot of white fans, when Black players talk about inequality or racial issues, it's a turnoff because they don't want to hear it.

If those fans start gravitating to the less contentious MLB, even if the NBA remains the giant it is nationally, certainly that might start to impact the Jazz if they're not keeping up - if they're not putting out teams who actually do something in the playoffs.

Because, ultimately, those fans are transferring that relationship to another team that provides the same outlet vs those big bad larger city teams. And even though there isn't much overlap schedule-wise, interest can wane overall just by the sheer fact they're maybe not the top major league team in the state anymore.
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  #15585  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 3:00 AM
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I kind of see Comrade's point. I know allot of people who have been turned off by the NBA and even the Jazz recently but support the Jazz because it's Utah. I still think the Jazz will be okay but I'm sure there will be a segment of their fan base that will forget the Jazz and just support the MLB team. I am more concerned about how an MLB team will effect Real Salt Lake as their seasons overlap and I don't think Soccer is as organically popular here as basketball and baseball.
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  #15586  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 7:11 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
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I understand comrade's point but I just don't see the Jazz losing that much support, ever. Maybe a shiny new MLB team will take some of the luster, but ultimately I just really don't see a situation in which the Jazz aren't just fine.

And frankly most of the conservatives who complain about social activism in sports never end up following through on their threats to boycott, so I'm not concerned about that either.
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  #15587  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 12:40 PM
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Welcome to the forum Takingnames. Great shots of Astra!! I also posted them over on the Compilation Thread...https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9922497&posted=1#post9922497

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takingnames View Post
Few pics I took of Astra yesterday. Love seeing the new window installations high up on the south side.

April 18, 2023







Photos By Takingnames

.
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  #15588  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 4:48 PM
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Schmoe Schmoe is offline
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No
Thank you for the well reasoned and articulated response.

Last edited by Schmoe; Apr 19, 2023 at 5:02 PM.
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  #15589  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 5:27 PM
dakben dakben is offline
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Hey @schmoe what is going onto the Lido Deck at floor 23? Seems like a lot of rebar.
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  #15590  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 8:07 PM
freeshavocado freeshavocado is offline
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Hi @dakben, any chance you can post pics of that view you're asking about? I miss being able to watch the progress from the KUTV cam.
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  #15591  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 8:28 PM
dakben dakben is offline
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Originally Posted by freeshavocado View Post
Hi @dakben, any chance you can post pics of that view you're asking about? I miss being able to watch the progress from the KUTV cam.
It's streaming from time to time (and right now) on my YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/dakben
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  #15592  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 9:26 PM
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I took pictures of Convexity and Astra from the roof of the Wells Fargo this afternoon:



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  #15593  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 9:38 PM
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Hey @schmoe what is going onto the Lido Deck at floor 23? Seems like a lot of rebar.
Pool and hot tub.
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  #15594  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 10:17 PM
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  #15595  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 10:25 PM
Blah_Amazing Blah_Amazing is offline
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Ooooohhhh Comrade coming in with the goods!

I know a lot of y'all have indicated the towers are 'placehoders.' However, with each rendering there seems to be more and more details fleshed out.

These look like a lot more time and work went into it for them to be only 'placeholders.' At least that's how it seems to me anyway.

I am sad we lost the third tower though. Maybe they felt it was too crowded....maybe it was the market

Last edited by Blah_Amazing; Apr 19, 2023 at 10:36 PM.
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  #15596  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 10:31 PM
taboubak taboubak is offline
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These renderings seem to confirm the rumors of the Jazz wanting to move their practice facilities to the West Quarter. This would be amazing for both the city and the Jazz, I'm sure that players would love this kind of urban setting.
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  #15597  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by taboubak View Post
These renderings seem to confirm the rumors of the Jazz wanting to move their practice facilities to the West Quarter. This would be amazing for both the city and the Jazz, I'm sure that players would love this kind of urban setting.
Also would suggest a commitment to downtown.
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  #15598  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2023, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade






I still think these could be subject to change. We've seen a bunch of designs go by the wayside already and these blocky designs really maximize density at ~375 ft and 400ish ft, which is right at the current thresholds of our skyline. I'd like to see them shoot for taller and challenge Astra!

Not that I'm complaining about this or anything. This would be great to see. Love the Jazz elements.
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  #15599  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2023, 12:03 AM
Ironweed Ironweed is offline
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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
Also would suggest a commitment to downtown.
Any idea when they will start on these?
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  #15600  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2023, 12:10 AM
Makid Makid is offline
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It looks like the 3rd tower was dropped when the Jazz practice center was added. I think this is a fair compromise as it does help with a commitment to downtown and will definitely increase the number of people that come to the block.

I would like the Block D towers to be taller but I will also be happy with this as shown as it will really activate the whole area.
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