Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd rather see existing roads brought to some kind of basic modern standard before building more half-baked bypasses.

Well, #1 through Headingly is an existing road that doesn't function properly. Same with #75 through St. Norbert.

But I get what you're saying.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

IMO to get a proper highway system around the City, St. Norbert and Headingley bypasses are part of that. Trucks crawl through St. Norbert right now, same as Headingley. Just my two cents.

My personal favorite is the few kms south of St Norbert that for whatever reason is set as a 60km/hr zone when it could easily be 80. Everytime I drive through it I curse and I can imagine truckers and anyone's livelihood that relies on efficient and on-time deliveries must get far more pissed.

St Norbert bypass should be completed ASAP.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Well, #1 through Headingly is an existing road that doesn't function properly. Same with #75 through St. Norbert.

But I get what you're saying.

Finish the existing bypasses before building new ones.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Sorry I meant to say busiest out of the at-grade intersections with lights. The ones with interchanges already would definitely have more traffic

Wrong again. HWY 15/Perimeter is far busier than HWY 3 based on the public traffic count information on the Highways site. HWY 3 is pretty comparable to Pipeline Rd and the Perimeter in terms of counts. St Marys though is easily the busiest without grade separation and it only really behind Portage and the Perimeter in terms of traffic counts.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd rather see existing roads brought to some kind of basic modern standard before building more half-baked bypasses.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Well, #1 through Headingly is an existing road that doesn't function properly. Same with #75 through St. Norbert.

Add HWY 15 between the Perimeter and 206 which is why the Oak Bank Corridor (relocation and safety improvement for HWY 15) is also on the table. The Selkirk corridor route is likely being looked at for similar reasons as well. Heck, the whole CPT project inside the Perimeter is on the books for similar reasons.

[esquire]

^ 15 and 101 is a badly-needed interchange. In some respects, there is a good argument to be made for building that one next given that a structure there eliminates two dangerous situations - busy intersection and busy railway crossing. I am frankly baffled that they didn't expedite that one back when the NE Perimeter opened in the mid 90s.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Reignman

My personal favorite is the few kms south of St Norbert that for whatever reason is set as a 60km/hr zone when it could easily be 80. Everytime I drive through it I curse and I can imagine truckers and anyone's livelihood that relies on efficient and on-time deliveries must get far more pissed.

St Norbert bypass should be completed ASAP.

Have to love Pembina-75 through St. Norbert, 60, 50, 60, 80, 90 and then 100, really needed a short stretch of 70 through there as well just because!

Road should be 60 through St. Norbert (roadway is divided and twinned) and 80 up to the floodway and then 100. Guess it's harder to get ticket revenue if the speed limits on the roadway made sense!

[esquire]

^ If you actually tried to set up that stretch of 75 as a speed trap I don't think you could do any better than the way it currently is.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Add HWY 15 between the Perimeter and 206 which is why the Oak Bank Corridor (relocation and safety improvement for HWY 15) is also on the table. The Selkirk corridor route is likely being looked at for similar reasons as well. Heck, the whole CPT project inside the Perimeter is on the books for similar reasons.

My original post had indicated south perimeter, within the study area of the RFP.

So to reiterate what I said, it makes sense that st marys and pth 3 are up first for interchange upgrades as they are the busiest at grade light controlled intersections on south perimeter

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Reignman

My personal favorite is the few kms south of St Norbert that for whatever reason is set as a 60km/hr zone when it could easily be 80. Everytime I drive through it I curse and I can imagine truckers and anyone's livelihood that relies on efficient and on-time deliveries must get far more pissed.

St Norbert bypass should be completed ASAP.

Scheduled commute times are based on road speeds, and most truckers have to follow the limits or be fired. No one's "livelihood" is affected by being 60 for a bit because that time is built in to estimates.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Add HWY 15 between the Perimeter and 206 which is why the Oak Bank Corridor (relocation and safety improvement for HWY 15) is also on the table. The Selkirk corridor route is likely being looked at for similar reasons as well. Heck, the whole CPT project inside the Perimeter is on the books for similar reasons.

Hwy 3 is the same as Pipeline. Bahahahahahahahahaha
Maybe instead of reading outdated counts you get in your truck or car and see what they are like in person. You might understand why I just laughed at your comment.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Have to love Pembina-75 through St. Norbert, 60, 50, 60, 80, 90 and then 100, really needed a short stretch of 70 through there as well just because!

Road should be 60 through St. Norbert (roadway is divided and twinned) and 80 up to the floodway and then 100. Guess it's harder to get ticket revenue if the speed limits on the roadway made sense!

They should throw in a 30 for good measure.
Honestly I know why the speeds are like that. My friend lives on that stretch. Him and his neighbours lobbied to have it drop down that far from the 90 it was going north bound from the floodway. They got it taken down to 60. Funny part is. That same friend used to street race that section all the time. Then he moved their and built a house. Then got them to lower the speed limit.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

They should throw in a 30 for good measure.
Honestly I know why the speeds are like that. My friend lives on that stretch. Him and his neighbours lobbied to have it drop down that far from the 90 it was going north bound from the floodway. They got it taken down to 60. Funny part is. That same friend used to street race that section all the time. Then he moved their and built a house. Then got them to lower the speed limit.

That's one of the problems with Winnipeg, there seems to be a lack of standardization for speed limits on roadways, some single roadways are 60, some are 50, some divided roadways are 50, 60, 70 and 80 nothing is uniform!

Speed limits seem to be dictated by complaints rather than common sense.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Hwy 3 is the same as Pipeline. Bahahahahahahahahaha
Maybe instead of reading outdated counts you get in your truck or car and see what they are like in person. You might understand why I just laughed at your comment.

Maybe if you ever left SW Winnipeg you would understand the issues in other parts of Winnipeg and the province. The traffic counts were published earlier this year so the only "outdated" information here is seemingly your ignorance.

If you look at the actual published traffic counts you would see the volume of traffic at Pipeline on the Perimeter is 25% higher than at HWY 3 as observed by the professionals doing the study. For HWY 3 some of that is offset by the higher volume of cross traffic but it still falls short of the combined values at both intersections.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

That's one of the problems with Winnipeg, there seems to be a lack of standardization for speed limits on roadways, some single roadways are 60, some are 50, some divided roadways are 50, 60, 70 and 80 nothing is uniform!

Speed limits seem to be dictated by complaints rather than common sense.

Lol...so true. So I guess I can go and buy some land on a major highway just outside the city somewhere and then lobby the government to greatly reduce the speed limit as the guy Bluenote is referring to did. There is a precedence now. It's really pathetic that somehow the speed limit lowering was approved in the face of basic common sense.

No different really then the city allowing the construction of those houses on Dugald (SW corner of Dugald & Plessis) which is a major arterial road and then dropping the speed limit from 70 to 50 for that short stretch.

[Reignman]

Ravenhurst between Pandora and Dugald is a two lane undivided road with gravel shoulders and deep ditches on both sides. One wrong move and you're in the ditch. And somehow it's set at 70km. Same for Plessis from Camiel Sys to Fermor. Single lane undivided with gravel shoulders and it's set at 80km.

Yet the section of hwy 75 set at 60km is a twinned and divided highway with any residential being set far back off the road. Who on earth makes these decisions?

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Maybe if you ever left SW Winnipeg you would understand the issues in other parts of Winnipeg and the province. The traffic counts were published earlier this year so the only "outdated" information here is seemingly your ignorance.

If you look at the actual published traffic counts you would see the volume of traffic at Pipeline on the Perimeter is 25% higher than at HWY 3 as observed by the professionals doing the study. For HWY 3 some of that is offset by the higher volume of cross traffic but it still falls short of the combined values at both intersections.

If I ever left so Winnipeg.
Lmfao. Buddy you do understand I drive more the 50 thousand Kms a year all over this city am province on every type of road. I know them all very well.
Last week I travelled Hwy 3 to Carmen 4 times. This week 2 times. Last week to Stonewall and Stoney 5 days in a row. Pipeline 2 times last week. Hwy 15 this week 3 times so far. You could drop me on a gravel road anywhere in this province and I'd know where I am.

So again comparing a major highway. Which would be number 3. Which is also a deadly highway. But it dumps into Oakbluff. So does Hwy 2. Which makes the Oakbluff lights horrible.

Now let's look at your favourite Pipeline road. Which is technically a gravel road that serves some homes on the north side. I may also add that Pipeline is a dead end not much past the North Perimeter. So PLEASE explain how Pipeline can have the same traffic counts as a major highway


Oh and those are the same professionals that are dictating how we should plan city and provincial highways with more lights amd the such right , and I'd also mention that's CROSS traffic. As in the perimeter itself. One stupid donkey wants to cross the perimeter at Pipeline stops all traffic amd that's where the counts come in. The actual PIPELINE counts are dismal at best. The intersection needs to be just closed already.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Maybe if you ever left SW Winnipeg you would understand the issues in other parts of Winnipeg and the province. The traffic counts were published earlier this year so the only "outdated" information here is seemingly your ignorance.

If you look at the actual published traffic counts you would see the volume of traffic at Pipeline on the Perimeter is 25% higher than at HWY 3 as observed by the professionals doing the study. For HWY 3 some of that is offset by the higher volume of cross traffic but it still falls short of the combined values at both intersections.

Sigh, your very own professionally produced source information that was posted a few months ago in this thread betrays you...

http://umtig.eng.umanitoba.ca/mhtis/flowmap2015.pdf

To say the volume of traffic at Pipeline and the Perimeter is 25% higher than Hwy 3 and the Perimeter is mathematically wrong and intentionally misleading. Pipeline contributes a whopping 1660 trips + 24,410 trips on the Perimeter for a total of 26,070 trips at that intersection. Highway 3 is 6980 trips + 19730 for the perimeter = 26,710 trips not even considering McGillivray's 9000 trips ... so at least that's out of the way.

While the total trip numbers appear close suggesting there's actually a discussion to be had, the interaction of traffic at the two intersections is so drastically different that it makes it obvious which one is busier and in higher need of an interchange. The traffic on the north perimeter generally passes by Pipeline with a minimal amount of turnoffs and a minimal amount of traffic turning onto the Perimeter at that location. At 100/3 intersection, there is over 4 times the amount of traffic coming to the Perimeter from #3 than from Pipeline (I'm intentionally keeping the McGillivray numbers out of the equation to prevent things from getting even more lopsided). Also, the amount of traffic on the perimeter north of #3 vs south of #3 increases by almost 3800 suggesting that is real traffic volume turning onto the perimeter at that location, not crossing. At Pipeline, the traffic count on the Perimeter either side of Pipeline is identical per the traffic counts. That essentially corroborates the eyetest that the intersection itself at Pipeline/101 (while unsafe) is not busy at all.

The trusted professionals of the department reviewed all of the traffic count information and made a determination that Pipeline was less of a priority for what that's worth.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Reignman

Yet the section of hwy 75 set at 60km is a twinned and divided highway with any residential being set far back off the road. Who on earth makes these decisions?

The good people on the Highway Traffic Board who are political appointees and have no traffic engineering background.

They also form the membership of the Manitoba Motor Transport board which looks after inercity bus lines and trucking in Manitoba.

Current Board Members

Alfred Rivers - Chair
Rolly Lavallee – Vice Chair
Danette Vancauwenberghe
Dashi Zargani
Bev Romanik
Pedro Correia
Doug Martindale

The different members over the years have been known to overturn speed change recommendations from the PEng's and CTE's that specialize in transportation issues

They have the final say for speed limits in the City of Winnipeg as well. City council has to go to them for any changes.

[longfeather]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Maybe if you ever left SW Winnipeg you would understand the issues in other parts of Winnipeg and the province. The traffic counts were published earlier this year so the only "outdated" information here is seemingly your ignorance.

If you look at the actual published traffic counts you would see the volume of traffic at Pipeline on the Perimeter is 25% higher than at HWY 3 as observed by the professionals doing the study. For HWY 3 some of that is offset by the higher volume of cross traffic but it still falls short of the combined values at both intersections.

As someone who passes thru both intersections daily I feel seriously embarrassed for you

At peak times #3 backs up to roxys and it takes 2-3+ light cycles to get on the perimeter. All the light at pipeline ever accomplishes is stopping 50+ cars on the perimeter so at most a couple cars can have gold plated access to the perimeter from their maybe 100 house community on a road that goes nowhere.

Pacman also left out the #2 @ 100 count which will also funnel thru that future interchange (Which on its own has a higher count than pipeline LMAO)