[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[Monctoncore]

Disclaimer: In no way or form am I saying Moncton is Toronto, or any larger city, I am only referring to their use of private lots and other lots for parking.

I remember when I was living in Ontario, travelling into Toronto and looking for parking was always something a bit stressful, always afraid of parking somewhere and getting towed etc. Then I noticed you didn't always have to find a parking structure, there were small lots and bigger lots everywhere and all there was, was a sign that said vacancy/no vacancy and a man standing there to take your money. That was it, they didn't have to put up fences, nothing, except a chair or sometimes a small shed which they referred to as a booth, it was literally that simple and the charger was usually $2 an hour which you paid when you got their so you didn't have to worry about coming back every hour.

My point being, the people that run the lots in Moncton are all very business savvy people, they are smart, they will take advantage of the opportunity to make extra money. Yes I said smart, not nice, not friendly or welcoming.. just smart. Any opportunity they can use to make a quick buck they will. So I think the booting worries can be thrown out the window.

[PEI highway guy]

for those who hate to pay for parking or who do not want to walk too far, it will be interesting to see the plan for people who park at a business like Sobeys and go to the Centre for an event. will they tow them? Ticket them?

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

for those who hate to pay for parking or who do not want to walk too far, it will be interesting to see the plan for people who park at a business like Sobeys and go to the Centre for an event. will they tow them? Ticket them?

Bigger question how will they know?

[L'homard]

I've often wondered what Sobeys/Shoppers/NBLC is going to do. I have no clue.
As for the other private lots downtown, if I owned a business with a private parking lot, I'd much rather hire a dude at $11 per hour to collect money from people looking to park, than pay booters.
Supposedly the province is passing legislation that will allow Moncton to ban booters anyway. This might be a moot point by the time the centre opens.

[josh_cat_eyes]

The city should have bought the lot across the tracks and built a parking garage there. Build pedways right into the building.
As for the Sobeys problem, they could put a two hour time limit on parking in their parking lot, and give employees a special pass to put on their car for when they're working, or have a employees only section of the parking lot.

[Delusio Cogno]

Originally Posted by L'homard

I've often wondered what Sobeys/Shoppers/NBLC is going to do. I have no clue.

Sobeys could make it a paid parking lot during the games, and you get a refund voucher from NBLC, Shoppers, and Sobeys with a purchase. Refund vouchers could be time stamped to be used within 30 minutes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm in New Orleans this week on a conference therefore will not be too active on the forum.

I found this render interesting:



The concourse level wraps around the east side of the arena in full view of the ice surface (in front of the club lounge, and one level below the private box seating), before disappearing below the stadium seating for the remainder of the circumference of the building.

You can see that this open area of the concourse is intended for handicapped seating. This is where wheelchairs wil be accommodated, with some seats set up for attendants and non handicapped companions. This is a nice touch, similar to the situation that exists at the current coliseum.

The stadium design looks good. I am not a fan of the checker-style colour seating scheme though. The two colour scheme looked good with solid red near the bottom and solid grey through the upper levels.

[HanSoloCup]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The stadium design looks good. I am not a fan of the checker-style colour seating scheme though. The two colour scheme looked good with solid red near the bottom and solid grey through the upper levels.

I find the current colour scheme is designed to not let your eye focus on anyone spot thus when there are less people the eye can be fooled and give the illusion of more people.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by HanSoloCup

I find the current colour scheme is designed to not let your eye focus on anyone spot thus when there are less people the eye can be fooled and give the illusion of more people.

I prefer a darker colour scheme, the eye is drawn to the well-lit ice surface/stage rather than the multitude of empty bright seats (whether multi or single colour) all around you.

For example, right now Finland and Belarus are playing at the IIHF Worlds on TSN, the game is in Paris with lots of empty seats at both ends, but the seats are sort of midnight grey so you don't even notice them unless you're really trying.

On another topic, anyone know why the City website stopped their monthly downtown centre updates? Haven't seen one in since early March.

[MonctonDowntown]

The trend at arena's across North America is to have dark seats to help make the empty seats less visible. Scotiabank Centre in Halifax recently replaced their orange seats for dark seats.

Another thing I'm very disappointed in is the layout of the arena. The average Wildcats game will see about 5000 (if that) people. They should have designed the lower bowl to be at about that number while curtaining off the upper bowl to give it a much more intimate feel. Having a third of the lower bowl empty for games will not foster a great atmosphere. Shame on the city for such a basic oversight.

Thirdly, another trend is that millennials don't want to sit in their seat the whole game so arenas across the globe are creating different fan zone experiences where you can go to hang out. Look at what Saint John did with the bar area they setup right behind one of the nets. Always jammed with people having a beer and watching the game.

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

The city should have bought the lot across the tracks and built a parking garage there. Build pedways right into the building.
As for the Sobeys problem, they could put a two hour time limit on parking in their parking lot, and give employees a special pass to put on their car for when they're working, or have a employees only section of the parking lot.

I thought I read some time ago that developer Richard Carpenter was planning on building a 2,000 space lot across the tracks and that there was supposed to be a link to the centre either under or over the railway lines. I even think I saw this on a building site plan at one time. What happened to this plan?

[David_99]

Originally Posted by flyer99

I thought I read some time ago that developer Richard Carpenter was planning on building a 2,000 space lot across the tracks and that there was supposed to be a link to the centre either under or over the railway lines. I even think I saw this on a building site plan at one time. What happened to this plan?

Looks like the city plans to put in a vehicular loop there.

[MonctonRad]

Indeed.

The vehicular loop is a singularly bad idea. I don't know what they are trying to accomplish with this.

This space badly needs to be developed as the primary parking area for the events centre. A large multilevel parking garage in this location would solve all problems. There should absolutely be a connecting tunnel/skywalk over the CNR tracks leading towards (but not necessarily connecting to) the events centre.

Why is it that Moncton is the only large city in the region without multiple enclosed parking facilities? Why does Moncton rely on the blight of surface parking????

[Monctoncore]

I have a feeling that loop won't be built, it was probably just added to the render to make it "aesthetically" pleasing. I'm sure the city has better plans for that location.
As for the parking structures I think they are hoping a private invester will come forward with a plan, so that they don't have to run it and possibly lose money. Though they probably would gain a profit having been one or two right next to the arena complex.

[Delusio Cogno]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

As for the parking structures I think they are hoping a private invester will come forward with a plan, so that they don't have to run it and possibly lose money. Though they probably would gain a profit having been one or two right next to the arena complex.

They can't build parking now, because it will be perceived as more cost overruns that were unbudgeted just like the plaza upgrades. They'll need to put parking in a future year's budget where they can claim it as an unrelated downtown enhancement.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno

They can't build parking now, because it will be perceived as more cost overruns that were unbudgeted just like the plaza upgrades. They'll need to put parking in a future year's budget where they can claim it as an unrelated downtown enhancement.

Technically there aren't any cost over run, since the plaza upgrades are still within the original budget, the only thing is the plaza is costing more, which takes a bite out of the contingency fund.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by flyer99

I thought I read some time ago that developer Richard Carpenter was planning on building a 2,000 space lot across the tracks and that there was supposed to be a link to the centre either under or over the railway lines. I even think I saw this on a building site plan at one time. What happened to this plan?

I believe that is still the plan, but it's still a surface lot. You could build a 4-5 storey parking structure and use 1/4 of the land.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

Technically there aren't any cost over run, since the plaza upgrades are still within the original budget, the only thing is the plaza is costing more, which takes a bite out of the contingency fund.

I say this as a firm supporter of upgrading the plaza in front of the events centre but, as one who has considerable personal and professional managerial experience of dealing with budgets and accountants, there are three types of falsehoods - lies, damned lies and budgetary reports.

You can slice and dice accounting statements and budgetary reports many ways, and a skilled accountant can make a deficit appear like a surplus depending on the rules applied. Governments (especially governments anticipating an election ) are very good at this.

The contingency fund is mostly a sham. It was only to be used in the events of cost overruns. Naturally city council has chosen to use it instead for frills and are treating it as a pre budgeted slush fund to finance these enhancements.

Now, I am an advocate for making the events centre as nice a facility as possible but it is important to call a spade a spade, and this is money that tax payers will ultimately be responsible for, one way of another. Your property tax bill is at risk!!

Hopefully there will be new development announcements in the immediate area in the next couple of years, and that these developments will increase the city's tax base. If this happens, and if the developments are tied in some way to the events centre, then the city will come out even. If not, then everyones tax rate will go up.

Again, I emphatically state that I am in favour of these enhancements, I just think people should be aware of what may happen..........

[Monctoncore]

Yes you are correct, I'm currently studying finance, well coming into my final year. Yes the contingency fund can be a sham, but as long as it stays within the $104 million budget, nobody has to worry. Hopefully nobody's taxes have to be raised, I have full beleif they won't. I agree accountants can move things around etc., to make the budget look better, but hopefully the accountants can keep it within the budget.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

Bigger question how will they know?

Typically grocery stores/large parking structures in an urban area like this would have a procedure where parking would be free for an hour if a receipt can be provided by the store in question. Many grocery stores in larger urban areas have parking garages attached to them so that when groceries of a certain amount are bought the customer is supplied with a free parking stub which gets them out of the parking area for free.

To answer your question in regards to Moncton: I don't know. I imagine Sobey's will want to tighten up parking at their lot to ensure their customers will continue to be able to park at their store. Tightening up the lot will mean either A) roping things off/creating a ticket stub system, or B) Hiring staff to provide proof of purchase. Either way it's a cost increase for the store owners.

In a perfect world the Events Centre generates enough local investment that rural-style developments like that Sobeys are removed from the downtown entirely and replaced by stores/structures that do not provide for that amount of surface parking and are instead more urban-friendly, pedestrian-friendly developments.