ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 78

STrek777 · #**1541** Posted **Aug 29, 2009, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

Yeah and 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot!

SwimAtl · #**1542** Posted **Aug 29, 2009, 8:33 PM**

the mule, er Ox, is pandering to Georgias conservative base. He knows there is no chance in hell of getting that highway through. I was reading where the legal agreement for Freedom Parkway, which folks successfully stopped from being a major highway, precludes any major highway in that area. How many dui's does the Ox have? I know of one for certain. imo he is an idiot

SwimAtl · #**1543** Posted **Aug 29, 2009, 8:37 PM**

double post

smArTaLlone · #**1544** Posted **Aug 29, 2009, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

I'm sorry but that is anything but the long range view. Its more like the last century view that simply adding capacity will reduce congestion. If anyplace in the world should have learned this lesson by now it should be Georgia and Atlanta. This is the only approach we've taken, yet have some of the worst traffic and smog in the country.

gttx · #**1545** Posted **Aug 29, 2009, 11:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

That is atrocious. Destroying entire neighborhoods - and some of Atlanta's finest at that - so that someone's commute between suburbs is faster. And you seem to be trying to rationalize it.

It pains me to think that people actually believe this is a good idea. The auto worship in this town is truly remarkable.

skapunkskatedude · #**1546** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 6:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

It makes me angry every time i hear about his "idea" about how to fix congestion... It doesn't matter how many people live inside of Atlanta or outside of Atlanta, we already have ONE OF THE LARGEST MOTORWAYS IN THE WORLD running through the middle of Atlanta, what happens when the new one gets full? Add another? It's the most ridiculous idea i've ever heard.

I didn't know much about Oxendine before this, but not only does he lose my imaginary vote (British people can't vote in America), but i know i'm gonna push all my friends to not vote for him. And i know when they hear about this, they wont.

citywalker · #**1547** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 9:29 AM**

.

citywalker · #**1548** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 9:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

Bullshit.

That is the only response that comes to my mind...sometimes I think certain posters on here say things just to get others riled up. If anyone thinks bulldozing Atlanta's most vibrant neighborhoods to build another freakin' highway is a good idea then they are a moron. I mean there are actually people that live in and around the areas in question and there is no way it will ever, ever happen....if a few of us can save a beautiful building no one has ever heard of from GA Tech then dream on if you want to say goodbye to Little 5 or Edgewood etc. Quit trying to pave over Atlanta and either enjoy it and augment it or go elsewhere. I am sure Mobile, Jackson, Frankfurt, Columbia, Montgomery, Tallahasee etc would just love more freeways let them have em'!

Rail Claimore · #**1549** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 1:08 PM**

I'd rather see I-85 rerouted on a new freeway west of Downtown, along the railroad tracks through that industrial corridor. A good bit of traffic on I-85 from the Carolinas is actually trying to get to I-20 west.

cybele · #**1550** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 1:20 PM**

Well you have all raised some good points. I'm sure that when the Ox takes over he will give a fair hearing to all involved.

cybele · #**1551** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 2:29 PM**

By the way putting in a freeway doesn't mean the death of a neighborhood. Look at all those great intown places like Grant Park, West End, Ansley, Midtown, Buckhead, etc., that have done just fine with freeways. Many of them had to live through years of MARTA construction as well, which is just about as bad.

Sure, it's disruptive while the work is going on but once it's finished the commuters have got a nice new way to zing past the city and the neighborhoods come back strong.

What's the old saying about you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs? Everybody always screams, "But not in my backyard!" but we would never get anything done without a little temporary inconvenience.

Life in a city means putting up with progress. If we wanted the quiet life we could all just move to the country and have our own little forty fenced in acres. (Although even then you have to be careful or they'll put a Wal-Mart next door).

briantech · #**1552** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 2:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

The Ox is looking at the bigger picture. As he says, you've got to take the long range view. 90% of the people in Atlanta live outside the city limits and probably 98% of them live outside the neighborhoods that would be affected. When you take the rest of Georgia into account the figure is probably over 99%. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many.

Sorry if I don't prescribe to your ideal that we should sacrifice the city of Atlanta so that people who don't live here can drive through our city faster.

RobMidtowner · #**1553** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 3:25 PM**

Cybele, you talk as if this is the only way to relieve congestion in Atlanta but we need to weigh all options to get the optimal solution. The best long-term solution to congestion is without a doubt transit.

cybele · #**1554** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 3:58 PM**

Rob, I am not anti-rail. It's very cool as an adjunct to other means of travel.

But we have to got to be realistic. How many people in Atlanta rely on transit, even where we have it?

And what's the likelihood that people in the suburbs will give up their cars in favor of transit? Atlanta's growth has been fueled by the phenomenal success of its suburbs, and all those millions of people and those big Fortune 500 corporations moved there because they preferred that lifestyle.

Even if we had the many billions of dollars it would take to build a usable rail system in the suburbs, most people would still need to drive to a station, and they'd need a car or something similar when they got to their destination.

And yes, highway construction is a mess, but so is rail. Anybody who lived through the chaos of the MARTA years knows that.

gttx · #**1555** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 4:01 PM**

It is unfathomable to me that political leaders still have not figured out that building more roads does not ease traffic congestion. Researchers and practitioners have been writing about it for years (see Anthony Downs' books), but no one in charge is listening.

With this fool as governor and Mary Norwood as mayor, Atlanta would be in for a tough few years. More highways and no more tall buildings...what a future.

popewiz · #**1556** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 5:56 PM**

cybele, you must be one of the worst advocates for the city of Atlanta I have ever come across. The ideas you support and try to advance almost always support the suburbs at the expense of the city.

Perhaps you should lobby SkyscraperPage to give you a "Suburbs of Atlanta" forum so you can take all this ridiculous crap somewhere else.

cybele · #**1557** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 8:39 PM**

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way.

jew4life4948 · #**1558** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way.

While valid points are raised on both sides let's just remember that most highways being built are maxed out at capacity within the first few years of use, and then require an auxiliary to reduce congestion on it. When in fact that was the purpose of building the original "new highway"

What happens when this East-Side Connector becomes congested? Do we extend it until the interior of 285 is nothing but asphalt and concrete.

No, I absolutely detest! Let's look at Seattle Viaduct. They used that as an opportunity to retool an aging Eisenhower eyesore to better serve the needs of the immediate community and foster a better sense of urbanism.

BettyBowers · #**1559** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 10:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybele

And what's the likelihood that people in the suburbs will give up their cars in favor of transit?

Amen! It is essential that we pander to the selfish wastefulness of Atlanta's most pampered suburbanites, even if we have to sacrifice a few intown communities to do so. Praise God for the wonderfully tartuffe John Oxendine, one of BASH's most famous success stories!

cybele · #**1560** Posted **Aug 30, 2009, 11:25 PM**

I wasn't trying to make some big city versus suburban thing out if it. I don't think all that many people who live intown are willing to give up their cars either. A lot of them have to drive to work out in the suburbs or to shopping centers or to take their kids to school.

I do see the point of not messing up the neighborhoods, though. Hopefully the Ox will go slow on this idea.