Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by golog

Longer term alleys could be better organized where it's only slow commercial vehicles ... bury the hydro lines, add some lighting, signal the road crossing, and ticket anything blocking the alley.

There are a few alleys I use in the quiet areas of my neck of the woods where the only available parallel street is busier than I'd prefer. For example I use the alley immediately north of 54th Avenue between Vivian and Kerr when I'm going to or from Champlain Mall.

I've thought about the idea of using downtown alleys, but I came to the conclusion that it would be pretty problematic. Even if a lot of them didn't stink, the biggest issue is trying to make them a through route when they cross so many busy streets. I really don't think you could get away with adding signals because of the impact on regular street traffic, yet without signals it's very difficult for cyclists to cross.

[golog]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I've thought about the idea of using downtown alleys, but I came to the conclusion that it would be pretty problematic. Even if a lot of them didn't stink, the biggest issue is trying to make them a through route when they cross so many busy streets. I really don't think you could get away with adding signals because of the impact on regular street traffic, yet without signals it's very difficult for cyclists to cross.

My idea is that the cross-road signals for alley traffic only happen where all road intersections are signalled. Then by synchronizing the alley traffic's signals with parallel roads, all you are imposing on cross road traffic is at most stopping at the alley crossing instead of half a block forward at the intersection.

Basically an organized way of ensuring a gap in the stopped traffic to allow passage. There are details like it may leave empty spots and spread traffic out along the road if it's not busy, the chance it slows down someone who would have turned right at the intersection if there were no pedestrian traffic to wait for, the alleys as they exist today do not form the best network as they run generally run parallel and furthermore do not provide alley to alley connections

[SpongeG]

Canada Line cycling link opens

By Christine Lyon - Richmond Review
Published: November 09, 2010 2:00 PM
Updated: November 09, 2010 2:48 PM

Civic and provincial politicians braved helmet hair and wet pant legs last Friday as they hopped on bikes and pedalled along a new connector to the Canada Line bridge.

The $265,000 cycling and pedestrian connection, which joins the Van Horne Way cycling route to the North Arm Bridge, was funded 50 per cent by the province. The City of Richmond and TransLink split the remaining cost.

“It’s specifically designed for cyclists and pedestrians. People can feel safe, people can get from one place to another in a safe manner,” said Terry Lake, Parliamentary Secretary for Health Promotion and Kamloops-North Thompson MLA.

“These types of investments in infrastructure allow people to move around in a way that is very healthy for our environment, obviously as we decrease our greenhouse gas emissions, but also keep us very healthy as well,” he added.

Lake noted further improvements to the Van Horne Way cycling route such as revised pavement markings and new “share the road” signs.

Among the cycle route expansions are a 1.8-metre-wide south and westbound on-street bike lane as well as a three-metre off-street, multi-use pathway on the east side of Van Horne Way.

That adds to the city’s more than 40 kilometres of trails and nearly 50 kilometres of on-street bike routes and off-street pathways.

Richmond Coun. Derek Dang rolled up to Friday’s opening on his own bicycle.

“We have another means of transportation, a mode so that we can transfer people to the Canada Line and increase an already popular mode of transportation,” he said.

TransLink board member Cindy Chan-Piper stressed the importance of creating a unified transportation network.

“A bus, a bicycle path, a traffic light, a pedestrian crossing signal—these are all parts of that integrated system,” she said.

...

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_...106995723.html

video there too...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by golog

Then by synchronizing the alley traffic's signals with parallel roads, all you are imposing on cross road traffic is at most stopping at the alley crossing instead of half a block forward at the intersection.

There's two problems with that - (1) you can only synchronize the signals on one-way streets, and (2) half a block doesn't hold very much traffic - it will back up across the previous intersections.

[whatnext]

For those who don't visit the political forum, there was an Angus Reid poll done November 2-4 which gauged City of Vancouver voter's thoughts on the Hornby St. bike lane. 53% of those polled opposed it. Not surprisingly 74% of motorists opposed it, 86% of cyclists supported it, while a surprisingly high 37% of those who walked or took transit opposed it.
http://www.angus-reid.com/wp-content...litics_VAN.pdf

[whatnext]

I see a cyclist rode "off the sidewalk" and into the path of one of the vehicles participating in the Zero Emissions Race. Cyclists on the sidewalk, who'd have thunk it?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1797709/

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I see a cyclist rode "off the sidewalk" and into the path of one of the vehicles participating in the Zero Emissions Race. Cyclists on the sidewalk, who'd have thunk it?

Yep, it could well be that this cyclist made a mistake. He's paying for it though, and I don't mean in terms of cash. It's easy to get complacent, if this helps to remind us to be vigilant (and I mean ALL of us) then maybe some good will come of it.

[officedweller]

That's why there are "rules of the road".
Seems like we're harking back to the horse & buggy days when it was a free-for-all on the streets.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I see a cyclist rode "off the sidewalk" and into the path of one of the vehicles participating in the Zero Emissions Race. Cyclists on the sidewalk, who'd have thunk it?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1797709/

who'da thunk there would be more than two people riding around the Olympic (ghost) Village?

Maybe the whisper-quiet electric motorcycle needs to be a little bit noisier for others to be aware that it is nearby?

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Cyclists on the sidewalk, who'd have thunk it?

The last time I biked that spot, the bike lane was detoured onto the sidewalk due to construction (and had been so for much of the fall).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

who'da thunk there would be more than two people riding around the Olympic (ghost) Village?

Maybe the whisper-quiet electric motorcycle needs to be a little bit noisier for others to be aware that it is nearby?

Yeah, I've always found it interesting that people say hybrid cars are too quiet, yet nobody ever suggests attaching noisemakers to bikes which are just as quiet, and equally capable of hitting a pedestrian at sufficient speed to cause harm.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I've always found it interesting that people say hybrid cars are too quiet, yet nobody ever suggests attaching noisemakers to bikes which are just as quiet, and equally capable of hitting a pedestrian at sufficient speed to cause harm.

It's probably because some 3,000 people in Canada are killed in motor vehicle accidents every year, while the number of people killed due to being hit by a cyclist is... zero? If you can come up with a number, let me know.

My 3,000 per year figure comes from Stats Canada: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/t...-page4-652.htm

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's probably because some 3,000 people in Canada are killed in motor vehicle accidents every year, while the number of people killed due to being hit by a cyclist is... zero? If you can come up with a number, let me know.

My 3,000 per year figure comes from Stats Canada: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/t...-page4-652.htm

Its quite possible for a cyclist to cause serious injury to a pedestrian or even kill them. Case in point:
http://www.sandiegopersonalinjuryatt...hitandrun.html
If the City is serious about increasing the amount of cycling trips they should be planning for the consequences. Perhaps bells (like people put on cats) could be made mandatory cyclist wear.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Its quite possible for a cyclist to cause serious injury to a pedestrian or even kill them. Case in point:
http://www.sandiegopersonalinjuryatt...hitandrun.html
If the City is serious about increasing the amount of cycling trips they should be planning for the consequences. Perhaps bells (like people put on cats) could be made mandatory cyclist wear.

Certainly cyclists can cause grievous injuries - that's why you have liability coverage if you're smart. For most cyclists that coverage is included in their renter's or homeowner's insurance.

I'm just sayin' in reaction to your post that cars are a much bigger problem in terms of accidents and injury and that's why people are worried about silent electric cars whereas people more or less accept the fact that bicycles are quiet.

One could probably argue that a cyclist is just as capable of warning a pedestrian by shouting at them as by using a bell, but in my experience pedestrians seem to instinctively know that a bell means a bicycle and get out of the way immediately, whereas a shout tends to make them look around first to see who's shouting, thus delaying their reaction.

I believe in bells, have one on my bike, and use it when I think it's necessary.

In terms of the safety consequences of increasing cycling trips, the experience in other cities is that the more cyclists you have, the safer it gets on a per-trip basis. This is because the cyclists themselves have to ride more carefully when the bike lanes get more crowded, and because pedestrians and motorists get used to the idea of watching out for cyclists.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's why there are "rules of the road".
Seems like we're harking back to the horse & buggy days when it was a free-for-all on the streets.

What makes you think that 'horses and buggies' didn't have rules to follow?

[officedweller]

I'm just thinking of the film footage that you see from the era where all manner of vehicles are on the unpaved streets - pedestrians, streetcars, horse & buggy and the new horseless variety.

******

BTW - I think there's a Vancouver City Bylaw that requires you to have a bell on your bike.

WRT cyclists killing pedestrians (typically elderly victims):

- there was a high profile one in Toronto in 2009:
http://videos.torontosun.com/video/f...id/33741807001

- in Seattle 2010:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...en_hit_by.html

This London UK article has stats (200 cyclist -pedestrian accidents in Britain, only 3 deaths)
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-by-cyclist.do

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's why there are "rules of the road".
Seems like we're harking back to the horse & buggy days when it was a free-for-all on the streets.

Some places are deliberately going this way. In this video link a UK street intersection has traffic lights removed and there are surprising results.

http://www.wimp.com/trafficlights/

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I've always found it interesting that people say hybrid cars are too quiet, yet nobody ever suggests attaching noisemakers to bikes which are just as quiet, and equally capable of hitting a pedestrian at sufficient speed to cause harm.

I would take my chances with a collision with a bike over one with a car.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm just thinking of the film footage that you see from the era where all manner of vehicles are on the unpaved streets - pedestrians, streetcars, horse & buggy and the new horseless variety.

******

BTW - I think there's a Vancouver City Bylaw that requires you to have a bell on your bike.

WRT cyclists killing pedestrians (typically elderly victims):

- there was a high profile one in Toronto in 2009:
http://videos.torontosun.com/video/f...id/33741807001

- in Seattle 2010:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...en_hit_by.html

This London UK article has stats (200 cyclist -pedestrian accidents in Britain, only 3 deaths)
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-by-cyclist.do

The Seattle one shows the need for a bell at least as a warning when passing pedestrians. It is a good idea to have a bell even if it isn't a city bylaw for biking on shared pathways.

The Toronto one you can see that three isn't a safe alternative for cycling, no bike lanes and the teenager is biking on the sidewalk which we have discussed earlier is ok for people under the age of 16 even in BC.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

The Seattle one shows the need for a bell at least as a warning when passing pedestrians. It is a good idea to have a bell even if it isn't a city bylaw for biking on shared pathways.

The Seattle one is really sad and a bit scary because it's something I can imagine happening to me. I often have to pass pedestrians on bike paths - for example the bike path through Trout Lake Park seems to have more pedestrians than cyclists on it. I've had a couple of close calls where pedestrians suddenly make a 90-degree turn with no warning and no obvious reason.

I'm a little reluctant to ding my bell when there's plenty of room to pass, but I've learned to slow right down when overtaking pedestrians because you just never know what they're going to do.

...and when I'm driving I have the same feeling about cyclists. We've all got to be careful out there!