Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Sheba]

When will these tax and fare increases occur?

While the transit service improvements in the Phase One plan will start rolling out in January 2017, residents and transit users won't pay anything more for transit fares, or see an increase on their property tax bills, until July 2017.


How are you calculating the average $3 increase in property tax?

TransLink's portion of your property tax bill, to support roads, bridges and transit across the region, accounts for about 8% of your total bill, with the remainder of your property taxes going to the province and your municipality. Every year, your property tax bill goes up about one-tenth of one percent due to TransLink, or about $3 on the average home – less than the rate of inflation. To help pay for the service improvements in the first phase of the 10-Year Vision, the Mayors' Council is proposing to adjust the TransLink property tax formula to add an additional 0.12% annual increase, or about $3 more per year on the average home, starting in 2017.

http://tenyearvision.translink.ca/faq/

[idunno]

Very excited about this. 22 new Canada Line cars (11 trains, I assume), plus station upgrades!? Plus a B-Line on Marine Dr on the North Shore? Awesome!

[Gordon]

We also have an election next May An NDP government I suspect would properly and hopefully solve it> handle the funding issue . THIS has been totally mishadld by the Liberals.

[ClaytonA]

From the video announcement/website link above starting July 2017:

-annual $3 per average property property tax increase

-sale of Translink real estate

-annual 10 cent/$2 per monthly pass transit fare increases for 3 years

-need Province BC allow region-wide development charges (not in local control, does this mean the province can say no, or want a referendum...)

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Why does the Mayors Council/Translink leave themselves the risk of the province saying no, or screwing this up given the short timelines? They should have only proposed funding sources they have complete control over. I've seen this before...

[ClaytonA]

[Long post - TLDR; this is not leadership]

Other than phase 1 nothing has started. Status quo is Translink has record ridership and frozen service with reallocation (service cuts in some areas).

Phase 1 approval in November would keep the region on track for phase 2 by getting phase 1 items underway.
This allows Phase 2 from the Federal PTIF to be focused on: Broadway and Surrey rapid transit, 20% bus service increase, transit priority investments, Patullo Bridge, and walking & cycling.
Need public to put pressure on whatever provincial government is elected and the federal government for phase 2 and the entire Mayors' 10 Year Plan.
Phase 2 funding for Metro Vancouver is in competition with other Canadian cities with respect to the timelines-i.e. will money get spent in Vancouver in 2021 or soon thereafter or will we be at the back of the line behind Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and so on.

No other tax increases are on the table right now as Phase 2 is expected to occur. Phase one is completely separate and sets no precedent for ways to fund Phase 2.
This is only $115 million per year or $1.15 billion over next 10 years with only 17% being capital, rest operating/maintenance.

Still want vehicle levy and mobility pricing for Phase 2.
Phase 2 would be coming in Q2 or Q3 2017?

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What happens if November approval doesn't happen? Does that federal money get re-allocated somewhere else in BC by the fed's and Province? Do they get an extension?

What about phase 2? They must want a change from the status quo of requiring a referendum/plebiscite since the Province, just like for the sales tax, requires one for the proposed Phase 2 funding sources. Essentially no timelines since there's no funding for Broadway, Surrey, Patullo, etc. This is not leadership. This is, well, even though they said no the last, what ten times, maybe they'll say yes if we ask the same question one more time...

Can they not get enough agreement on the Mayors Council with Corrigan, Jackson, and Read seemingly publicly against investment? Are they stalling, trying to buy more time, on purpose? Waiting for change locally? Some of those mayors are long term and really popular, so I wouldn't expect change there. Change provincially? Because buying time is what the Province seems to be doing; none of Vancouver's transit needs are in the 10 year BC On The Move plan that's having budgets built around it. What is in it is highway investment (which is needed too). I cannot see the NDP forming the next provincial government, so why aren't the Mayors Council doing what they have control over? How much worse do things have to get moving around the region before we invest?

[ClaytonA]

Starting Oct 11 provide feedback using this page: http://tenyearvision.translink.ca/have-your-say/

Public consultation in October (required by Translink legislation) starts October, complete by November. Quick because of federal investment timelines. The Mayors Council has approved taking plan to public almost unanimously.


Assuming November approval by the Mayors Council and Translink Board based on public feedback-i.e. this is not a done deal yet:

ASAP Surrey and Broadway planning/engineering including stations, related bus exchanges, and power systems/ATC.

ASAP ordering 28 new skytrain cars, 5 west coast express cars, 22 Canada line cars.

ASAP ordering new buses and retaining instead of retiring current buses with most recent order.

January 2017 HandyDart service increase

January 2017 increase Seabus service to every 10 minutes during the morning and evening rushes.

January 2017 additional Skytrain frequency, once with new cars (after 3 years?) 12% increase

January 2017 additional WCE service, extra train run IIRC

January 2017 after a bit of lag additional Canada Line service, once with new cars (after 3 years?) 55% increase

April 2017 (need to hire/train staff) first round of new buses, another round every 3 months thereafter for 3 years until at additional 500,000 hours. This means 5 additional B-Line services by year 3, total 145 new buses.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

January 2017 increase Seabus service to every 10 minutes during the morning and evening rushes.

This implies increasing the frequency of buses that depart from Londsdale Quay to handle the passengers coming off the Seabus - is that going to happen?

January 2017 additional Skytrain frequency, with new cars 12% increase

I doubt that can happen until the new cars (i.e., the second order of Mark III's, not the ones already allocated for the Evergreen Extension) arrive, and that's certainly not going to happen by January 2017.

January 2017 after a bit of lag additional Canada Line service, with new cars 55% increase

Same comment - this is probably a couple of years out.

[Pinion]

Does "mobility pricing in 2021" = bridge tolls on every bridge?

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This implies increasing the frequency of buses that depart from Londsdale Quay to handle the passengers coming off the Seabus - is that going to happen?

Of course not, that's too logical.

[WarrenC12]

A 55% increase in Canada Line frequency would be incredible. 3 trains every 7 mins instead of 2. It would certainly justify more Compass readers at stations like Yaletown.

Worth mentioning that the NDP have come out and said they would increase the provincial portion of Translink funding from 33% to 40%. At least that's a step in the right direction. But easy for the Liberals to match.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I doubt that can happen until the new cars (i.e., the second order of Mark III's, not the ones already allocated for the Evergreen Extension) arrive, and that's certainly not going to happen by January 2017.
.

I believe there is spare capacity with the existing skytrain fleet to increase service level immediately.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This implies increasing the frequency of buses that depart from Londsdale Quay to handle the passengers coming off the Seabus - is that going to happen?


I doubt that can happen until the new cars (i.e., the second order of Mark III's, not the ones already allocated for the Evergreen Extension) arrive, and that's certainly not going to happen by January 2017.


Same comment - this is probably a couple of years out.

The new Mk III cars are NOT "allocated for the Evergreen Extension"

They are intended to run Surrey - Waterfront Expo line because of their extra capacity.

Some of the Mk I and Mk II cars that these Mk III trains will displace can then be shifted to the Millennium line (for the evergreen extension)

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The new Mk III cars are NOT "allocated for the Evergreen Extension"

They are intended to run Surrey - Waterfront Expo line because of their extra capacity.

My intent was to point out that the new Mk III cars were bought to provide the extra capacity that was going to be needed due to the Evergreen extension, not necessarily that they themselves were going to run there.

My point was that those cars will not really provide for any increase in service levels on the existing lines. Service won't increase until additional cars beyond that first allotment of seven Mark III trainsets arrive, and that certainly won't happen by January 2017.

[ClaytonA]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This implies increasing the frequency of buses that depart from Londsdale Quay to handle the passengers coming off the Seabus - is that going to happen?

Clarified the post a bit.

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From the media room here; http://tenyearvision.translink.ca/media-room/

Check out the Phase One Improvement Maps;

new B-Line express service... on Marine Drive/Main Street. Service
would run 15 mins or better every day... and up to every 10 mins during weekday peaks. Service will connect major destinations, such as Dundarave,
Park Royal, Lower Lonsdale and Lower Lynn.

For routes by Seabus, the 229 and 257 frequency increasing from 30min to 20min. Overall 14% increase in North Shore bus service. You're supposed to build ridership (and in ideal world land use zoning) before you get Skytrain Pinion

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They should have done a project list on these maps for major roads, cycling, and walking too.

[ClaytonA]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

My intent was to point out that the new Mk III cars were bought to provide the extra capacity that was going to be needed due to the Evergreen extension, not necessarily that they themselves were going to run there.

My point was that those cars will not really provide for any increase in service levels on the existing lines. Service won't increase until additional cars beyond that first allotment of seven Mark III trainsets arrive, and that certainly won't happen by January 2017.

Isn't there spare capacity? Didn't Translink confirm on twitter(?), and wasn't it grumbled about on this thread, that Translink had to decrease Skytrain frequency on the Millennium Line and Expo line to Surrey in June or thereabouts off-peak as part of service reallocation? [can't find link in thread] Canada Line also ran some extra trains during back to school in the past few years because of overcrowding too, didn't they?

Here's one on back-to-school overcrowding on Canada Line. http://www.cknw.com/2014/09/12/canada-line-stations-overcrowded/


From the news release:

Increase SkyTrain service in early 2017, by providing more service during mid-day and early evening hours;

[Express691]

As far as replacement buses go, there should be an order for 74-ish 40" buses.

I know theres 51× 40" CNGs coming in next month as well as 26× 60" Hybrids coming in by the start of next year.

These are replacement units BTW

[ClaytonA]

Maybe the new orders of buses will be CNG as well?

Many places in N America seem to be shifting from diesel to CNG for cost savings and once the filling stations are in, the incremental cost is much less until you need to do another yard. Have they fixed the reliability/maintenance expense issues with the hybrids enough?

I imagine not retiring buses to boost service in the short term will increase some maintenance costs since they're retaining the older buses longer too.

[Express691]

Theres an RFP for STC to receive CNG fueling facilities, so yeah - CNG is becoming more and more common in the network.

Its just the hilly areas we have to worry about

[Gordon]

Are the B-Line along 41st to U>B.C. & the conversion 06 the 135 SFU \Downtown to a B line included in the service upgrades?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Are the B-Line along 41st to U>B.C. & the conversion 06 the 135 SFU \Downtown to a B line included in the service upgrades?

Yes to the 41 B-Line, nothing on the 135 B-Line yet.
http://tenyearvision.translink.ca/plan/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Are the B-Line along 41st to U>B.C. & the conversion 06 the 135 SFU \Downtown to a B line included in the service upgrades?

There's a Hastings B-Line, possibly going all the way to SFU. Not sure if it's upgrading the 135.