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  #1521  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 6:41 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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I wonder at what point in time did the Pan Am Games start having difficulty attracting the top athletes in their respective sports. I know that the 1967 Pan Am Games in Winnipeg had Mark Spitz - the Michael Phelps of his day.
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  #1522  
Old Posted May 20, 2014, 12:54 AM
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^We don't yet know who is or isn't coming.

And in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure it really matters. The Games is all about building amateur athletic facilities and developing land (i.e. the Canary District) > I'm not sure it matters who watches.

Indianapolis hosted in 1987 and they used the Games to re-brand their city as a centre for amateur sport. I'm not sure that's what will happen with Toronto but it's more the MO than creating a TV spectacle, I'd say.
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  #1523  
Old Posted May 20, 2014, 1:52 AM
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Why should I not want to see the best athletes in the Americas perform? Especially since these tickets will not be cheap for events?

People are acting like me wanting to see the best competition is a crime.

Canadians like mediocracy to much. Europeans and Americans would never expect some third rate event that costs billions of dollars to put on to be placed in their back yards. Not if they couldn't get a show out of it at the very least. Rationalizing the Pan-Ams just plays up to Canadians persistence of excepting mediocre stuff on all levels. I always viewed the Pan-Ams as nothing more for Toronto then a warm up for the Olympics. But since now Toronto has gotten cold feet on its bid the Pan-Ams will largely be useless aside from some facilities that will add community benefits but we could of built those anyways and saved money.

"Just be happy for what it is?
So I can pay 100$ to watch a jr. track meet?

There is a reason the Pan-Ams have been in a comma and it's because the organization that runs it is to inept to get a system going where the Pan-Ams act as placeholders or qualifiers for the Olympic Games. Sports federations now have monetized their world championships and have zero use for the Pan-Ams, and because of this the athletes have zero use for the pan-Ams either.

Same thing has happen in Asia with the Asian Games but they are currently being re-aligned and re-focused as a attempt to be the main qualifier stage for Asian Olympic nations.

You have I find a reason for existing. As costs to hold these things keeps growing the Pan-Ams need to find a legit reason to exist or they will simply vanish.
Taken on a broader level and to the extreme, this mentality is sometimes what keeps Canada from being among the best. Or at least being a whole lot better: at sports, in movies, in TV, in a whole bunch of areas.

Sorry for taking the discussion there: I know that what not your intent.

But sometimes you have to support your own stuff warts and all in order to simply give it a chance to be among the best. And sometimes it happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujsLVgwrL20
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  #1524  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 3:05 AM
elly63 elly63 is online now
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Minor league stadium for a minor league, when only the "best" will do. Sarcasm mode now off.









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  #1525  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:22 PM
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Minor league stadium for a minor league, when only the "best" will do. Sarcasm mode now off.
Sarcasm aside, with the spectacular existing, new and planned stadiums in the CFL west, the CFL east is starting to look like the minor league affiliate of the western division. Skydome is the only permanent big time stadium the east has left, and soon it too will be ditched in favour of a gussied-up Beamo.
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  #1526  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:27 PM
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Sarcasm aside, with the spectacular existing, new and planned stadiums in the CFL west, the CFL east is starting to look like the minor league affiliate of the western division. Skydome is the only permanent big time stadium the east has left, and soon it too will be ditched in favour of a gussied-up Beamo.
On that note, I wonder why doesn't the CFL establish a semi-pro league in Quebec and Atlantic Canada? Set up a league with teams in, say, Quebec, Moncton, Halifax, Hamilton (just kidding), Saint John, Sydney and St. John's. This would be nothing grandiose... maybe just a business plan that calls for the use of community facilities and assumes maybe 2,000 fans a game. $100 a game for the players or something on that order.

It could grow the game in parts of the country that don't pay that much attention to the CFL right now, and potentially plant the seeds for a CFL expansion team or two down the line. It would also be a great opportunity for CIS/CJFL graduates who aren't pro-ready to sharpen their skills at a high level of competition.
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  #1527  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:34 PM
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On that note, I wonder why doesn't the CFL establish a semi-pro league in Quebec and Atlantic Canada? Set up a league with teams in, say, Quebec, Moncton, Halifax, Hamilton (just kidding), Saint John, Sydney and St. John's. This would be nothing grandiose... maybe just a business plan that calls for the use of community facilities and assumes maybe 2,000 fans a game. $100 a game for the players or something on that order.

It could grow the game in parts of the country that don't pay that much attention to the CFL right now, and potentially plant the seeds for a CFL expansion team or two down the line. It would also be a great opportunity for CIS/CJFL graduates who aren't pro-ready to sharpen their skills at a high level of competition.
I think people might be surprised how well-attended this league might be. It's good to keep expectations to not having it flop, but I can easily see crowds of 5-10,000 in many of these cities.
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  #1528  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:41 PM
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I think people might be surprised how well-attended this league might be. It's good to keep expectations to not having it flop, but I can easily see crowds of 5-10,000 in many of these cities.
Something like this probably wouldn't work in Ontario or the west where the market is relatively saturated (CFL, CJFL, CIS, many cities within driving distances of NFL stadiums), but it could potentially work in the east where there is much less football in the market. CIS is really the only game in town, and even with that, only Halifax and Quebec have teams out of the cities I mentioned.

With a few characters like that wannabe Jerry Jones guy who owns the Vancouver Island Raiders as team owners, a league like this would be good to go!
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  #1529  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 7:29 PM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my body playing football for such a small paycheque. An injury could right me off on my regular job - the job that I would need to stay alive.
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  #1530  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 7:36 PM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my body playing football for such a small paycheque. An injury could right me off on my regular job - the job that I would need to stay alive.
Lots of guys would, though. There are many semi-pro leagues out there. You obviouslyt don't do it for the money... it's about continuing to play the game at a high level, and for some, pursuing the dream of hitting the big time.

A lot of players will keep playing as long as they can... after all, unlike baseball or hockey, there are no old-timers leagues you can play in. Generally speaking, once you hang up the cleats, you're done for good in football, at least the full-contact variety.
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  #1531  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 10:30 PM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my body playing football for such a small paycheque. An injury could right me off on my regular job - the job that I would need to stay alive.
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Lots of guys would, though. There are many semi-pro leagues out there. You obviouslyt don't do it for the money... it's about continuing to play the game at a high level, and for some, pursuing the dream of hitting the big time.

A lot of players will keep playing as long as they can... after all, unlike baseball or hockey, there are no old-timers leagues you can play in. Generally speaking, once you hang up the cleats, you're done for good in football, at least the full-contact variety.
Semi-pro football is a pretty big thing in some parts of the states. Not on the level of high school or college obviously but for some communities and small cities it's the biggest ticket in town and does reasonably well.

Just for comparison, Newfoundland has a senior hockey league where teams operate on budgets between $500,000 and $750,000 in towns of less than 10K people. Semi-pro football is really no different than senior hockey, guys play to continue playing at a high level. There is a substantial risk of injury and the pay is pretty low, a few hundred or up to a thousand per game but guys play anyway. Football would probably fly in Quebec and the 3 maritime provinces, we don't have a single football field in NL so we're out entirely. But setting up something in QC, NB, NS, PEI would be a great way to lay a foundation for CFL expansion in the future.
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  #1532  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 1:37 AM
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I don't check in on this thread very often > has there been much chatter on the impending CFL strike? It's hard to imagine the powers that be (owners and CFLPA) would allow this to happen but it seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. It's a really interesting scenario playing out.
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  #1533  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 1:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my body playing football for such a small paycheque. An injury could right me off on my regular job - the job that I would need to stay alive.
I can see your point. But there will always be people who will "live the dream"

As to the idea of a feeder league, the connection should be more closely made to the CIS because of its quantum leap in quality in the past decade or so. More and more CIS players are going directly to the NFL. Not a big number yet mind you but enough that NFL scouts are taking it more seriously for the quality of athlete and excellent coaching that now emanates from there.
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  #1534  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 2:23 AM
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I don't check in on this thread very often > has there been much chatter on the impending CFL strike? It's hard to imagine the powers that be (owners and CFLPA) would allow this to happen but it seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. It's a really interesting scenario playing out.
I think it's wait and see... there is a lot of bluster but as with most of these disputes, there is a huge incentive to settle the matter and get on with the season.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the owners will win this round insofar as the league is not quite consistently profitable enough to implement revenue sharing with players, and the players know it. They will get some decent raises to soften the blow, though, so everyone will go home happy. If this whole thing results in anything more significant than maybe a 2 week delay to the season, I'd be shocked.
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  #1535  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 3:05 AM
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If I were a betting man, I'd say the owners will win this round insofar as the league is not quite consistently profitable enough to implement revenue sharing with players, and the players know it. They will get some decent raises to soften the blow, though, so everyone will go home happy. If this whole thing results in anything more significant than maybe a 2 week delay to the season, I'd be shocked.
I'll second that.
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  #1536  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 3:13 AM
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On that note, I wonder why doesn't the CFL establish a semi-pro league in Quebec and Atlantic Canada?
Because college football fills that void already. What they could do with is some investment by the CFL. Get Dal and UNB back, maybe even Holland College, partner with them to run their programs in a more professional, profit oriented manner, and put some money into collegiate football stadia there.

This offers the best bang for the buck. CIS is a big feeder system for CFL and keeps football culturally relevant in markets without CFL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think people might be surprised how well-attended this league might be. It's good to keep expectations to not having it flop, but I can easily see crowds of 5-10,000 in many of these cities.
See above. AUS just needs some mentoring and dollars invested. There's no need for a semi-pro football league when you have an established collegiate system that's culturally ingrained already. If the CFL invested in AUS you could see attendance bump up to the following:

Current Teams
Saint Mary's: 8,000
Acadia: 5,000
St. FX: 6,000
Mt. Allison: 3,000

Turn these club teams into proper AUS teams
Dalhousie: 8,000
New Brunswick: 8,000
Holland College: 5,000
Moncton: 5,000
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  #1537  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 2:41 AM
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I think it's wait and see... there is a lot of bluster but as with most of these disputes, there is a huge incentive to settle the matter and get on with the season.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the owners will win this round insofar as the league is not quite consistently profitable enough to implement revenue sharing with players, and the players know it. They will get some decent raises to soften the blow, though, so everyone will go home happy. If this whole thing results in anything more significant than maybe a 2 week delay to the season, I'd be shocked.
Missing any part of the season would be traumatic for both players and owners. In the case of the players, some of them only make a couple grand a month, so every penny counts.

Apparently the CFLPA and the CFL have really dug their heels in and aren't even talking, so as the days fade away, it's hard to imagine them sorting things out before training camps open > that is supposed to be pretty soon, I believe.
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  #1538  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Missing any part of the season would be traumatic for both players and owners. In the case of the players, some of them only make a couple grand a month, so every penny counts.

Apparently the CFLPA and the CFL have really dug their heels in and aren't even talking, so as the days fade away, it's hard to imagine them sorting things out before training camps open > that is supposed to be pretty soon, I believe.
There are only a couple of players on each team making around the league minimum of $46K, and these are generally import rookies who have little sway. In reality, the CFL average is closer to $100K and say what you will about CFL salaries, but the typical player earning that amount probably also has other income streams and can afford to ride out a labour dispute for a while. I mean, if cashiers at the supermarket can manage to go on strike, I don't think it's going to be all that hard for CFL players. Besides, I think both sides have seen this coming for at least a year, so most players (the wise ones, anyway) will have prepared for it.

As for the digging in of heels, I would say this is the type of posturing you always see in these kinds of negotiations. I'd say that the CFL owners have the upper hand and the PA knows it... the PA is using whatever leverage it has to try to squeeze some concessions from the owners in light of the fact that revenue sharing appears to be a non-starter. Once all is said and done, CFL owners will have avoided given up revenue sharing, players will receive raises and everyone will go home happy with no more than a few weeks of delays.
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  #1539  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 9:29 PM
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CFL labour dispute hits calm after storm
Kirk Penton, Winnipeg Sun May 24, 2014

We have reached the calm after the storm in the CFL labour talks.

It's the point that occurs during most collective bargaining agreement negotiations where there is one day of news releases, strong talk and hurt feelings, and then nothing for a few days afterwards. There is still plenty of time for an agreement to be reached and for training camps to begin on time, but it looks like the players are going to make the owners sweat a bit.

Both sides have something to give, and now fans will sit back and wait for them to meet somewhere in the middle.

There was a telling conversation on Winnipeg radio Friday night, when B.C. Lions running back Andrew Harris told CJOB's Jim Toth that the players are asking for "a bit too much." Harris was obviously admonished for his statement -- he was even hearing it from his own teammates -- because on Saturday he wrote the following on his Twitter account: "My apologies to fellow @CFLPA members. Lesson learned when putting the heart of one ahead of business for all. #united."

If that's how one veteran Canadian CFLer feels, how do you think other players with weaker ties to the league and to the country are going to feel after a few pay cheques don't come in?

A football player's career lasts only so long and it's difficult to see the players standing strong as a group for an extended period of time. That's why you can count on there being football at some point this summer, even if it is delayed by a few weeks.

Not only will players get the itch to do what they train six months of the year to do, but owners like David Braley and Bob Young have poured millions into the CFL. Many say if it weren't for Braley there might not be a league today. Since most of the league's owners have the financial wherewithal to outlast the players, a few more million in losses isn't going to cause them to give in to the players. That's what people who have been in the CFL for years are saying behind the scenes, anyway. There's no way the players are going to be able to topple the deep-pocketed owners over the long haul.

As much as the players deserve more money -- they do, and what the league is offering would give them that -- the owners who have helped keep the league afloat should be rewarded for their patience. Some might view that as the rich getting richer, but no one is getting rich in the CFL. It's no secret Toronto and Hamilton lose money year after year.

Teams are building new and better stadiums for their players, which costs the franchises a varying degree of cash due to public funding, and attendance figures aren't exactly skyrocketing.

Montreal doesn't sell out anymore. Toronto still attracts family and friends. Hamilton hasn't been a big draw for years. Winnipeg couldn't sell out its brand new stadium after the 2013 home opener and season-ticket sales are down big time this year. Calgary does well only when the Roughriders are in town. Edmonton's attendance took a big dip last year. And B.C. wasn't exactly packing them in, either. The Roughriders, of course, are the exception to the rule.

That's looking at the situation from a glass-half-empty approach, but it's something to consider. When commissioner Mark Cohon says every November that the league is doing well, he's still speaking relatively.

The owners told the players they would revisit revenue sharing when they gave it up during the 2010 negotiations, but so far during these talks it has been a non-starter. Therefore, the owners should throw the players a bone and increase the cap by more than the $50,000 they're offering after the first year of the deal. The $400,000 hike off the hop is a good one, but it should be bigger after that. The owners should also put it in writing that revenue sharing will be a part of the next CBA in one form or another.

The players, meanwhile, should allow the league to continue to grow for a while. Let's see what the revenues are during the new TSN deal. Enjoy a serious bump in the salary cap and fewer practices with pads, and then if the league continues to flourish you will get your revenue sharing back in four years.

The solution seems painfully obvious. Now that the barbs have been thrown and the terms have made public, all that's left to do is get a deal done.

Get back to the table.

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  #1540  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 10:17 PM
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How are these schools fairing with enrollment? I know population numbers have been shaky out east and most new enrollment in shills has been women whom aren't putting on the football lads anytime soon. Yes you could prop up football programs out way but it's going to take a lot of resources as schools will sniff around to squeeze them out as mean to better use resources and save cash. If you could essentially create football factory's like Laval and have quasi "school" teams being propped up by a CFL and private fund/trust then we could be getting somewhere. This would be a good prelude to hopefully eventual expansion out there.
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