Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[officedweller]

The Burrard part is a connection from Hornby via Drake to Burrard Bridge.

The kicker won't be the bus stop (is it busy?) - it will be the prohibition on vehicle right turns from Burrard to Pacific because of the bike lane - forcing drivers to cross the bridge if they miss a turn further north.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by radacal

I assume that the bus just stops in the middle of traffic and the bus passengers cross the bike lane to get to the bus? just waiting for someone to get smoked....

Actually, looking at the plans only two bus stops are affected (Hornby & Beach, and Burrard & Drake), and both are being relocated by about half a block to avoid conflict with the bike lane.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by radacal

I assume that the bus just stops in the middle of traffic and the bus passengers cross the bike lane to get to the bus? just waiting for someone to get smoked....

The separated bike lane only runs for one block on Burrard, and the bus stop has been relocated to the preceeding block.

See: http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transpor...ific_Davie.pdf

[WBC]

Burrard Bridge bike trips are down from September 2009 by about 5%. They were up by around 7% in July and August.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WBC

Burrard Bridge bike trips are down from September 2009 by about 5%. They were up by around 7% in July and August.

I wonder if it's because of the weather? My back year weather station recorded > 50% more rain this September (160mm) than a year earlier (104mm).

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I wonder if it's because of the weather? My back year weather station recorded > 50% more rain this September (160mm) than a year earlier (104mm).

It's possible. By the end of the year there will be roughly 6 months of overlapping data which should give us overall trend and should in theory eliminate the weather variatiions (unless 2010 turns out to be significantly different weather wise over 2009).

Also we will have Hornby street bike lane opening up. If numbers change significanlty on the Burrard bridge after the Hornby bike lane opens up then that could be a good indication that more real commuters have embraced biking. If the numbers stay flat then the initial increase in Burrard bridge cyclists is most likley due to recreational use (i.e. people from Kits crossing over to ride around downtown seawall and the other way around).

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WBC

Also we will have Hornby street bike lane opening up. If numbers change significanlty on the Burrard bridge after the Hornby bike lane opens up then that could be a good indication that more real commuters have embraced biking.

The Dunsmuir Viaduct numbers went up a LOT after the separated lane opened through to Hornby Street. I'd be pretty surprised if the Hornby bike lane doesn't have a similar effect on the Burrard St. bridge. For commuting purposes, without a separated lane to take traffic further north the bike lane on the Burrard bridge is almost like a freeway that turns into a gravel road.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The Dunsmuir Viaduct numbers went up a LOT after the separated lane opened through to Hornby Street. I'd be pretty surprised if the Hornby bike lane doesn't have a similar effect on the Burrard St. bridge. For commuting purposes, without a separated lane to take traffic further north the bike lane on the Burrard bridge is almost like a freeway that turns into a gravel road.

Yes, but it is very likely that Dunsmuir route has picked up cyclist from other routes leading into downtown from the east (Hastings, Pender and maybe even people using Expo and Quebec). Burrard Bridge is much more clear cut in terms of estimating new cyclists as there is not other route towards Kits.

[racc]

Originally Posted by WBC

Yes, but it is very likely that Dunsmuir route has picked up cyclist from other routes leading into downtown from the east (Hastings, Pender and maybe even people using Expo and Quebec).

While that likely happened, if you look at the traffic counts in Vanmap, there still has been a significant increase over the levels that were on Dunsmuir and Pender combined. As there are still people cycling on Pender, it does look like the separated lanes have attracted a lot of new cyclists. Not surprising as Pender west of Cambie was and is a pretty crappy bike route.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WBC

Yes, but it is very likely that Dunsmuir route has picked up cyclist from other routes leading into downtown from the east (Hastings, Pender and maybe even people using Expo and Quebec).

I'd love to see some numbers on that. I use the Union/Adanac bike route about once a week to reach the Dunsmuir viaduct and bike lane, and I can tell you that on June 16, one day after the separated bike lane went in, there was a very obvious increase in the number of bikes on Adanac at least as far east as Clark Drive. On that day, and on every other day I took that route thereafter, I would guess that the volume had at least doubled from its previous levels. To me that's pretty strong evidence that the new bike lane downtown has really increased the overall number of cyclists.

I'm sure it's redirected a lot of existing cyclists too, but there's little doubt in my mind that there's a lot more to it. More evidence is that the bike rack in front of BCIT on Seymour street used to host about 3-5 bikes, and now the new bike racks beside BCIT on the separated lane always seem to be full (weather permitting) with a couple of dozen bikes.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by WBC

Burrard Bridge bike trips are down from September 2009 by about 5%. They were up by around 7% in July and August.

The September numbers are now available for the Burrard Bridge bike lane. Unless my math is off (always possible), they show a 7.1% decrease from bike use on the bridge in 2009.

To put this in context, here is my assessment of the numbers for cycle use on the Burrard Bridge (again, subject to being corrected on the math):

JUNE 16 – JULY 10
2009 (pre-separated lane): 3775 / day
2010 (post separated lane): 4296 / day
- increase of 521 cyclists / day (13.8% increase)

All other figures are post installation:

JULY 13 – 31
2009 – 5536 / day
2010 – 5617
- increase of 81 cyclists / day (1.4% increase)

AUGUST 1 – 31
2009 – 4207 / day
2010 – 4494 / day
- increase of 287 cyclists / day (6.8% increase)

SEPTEMBER 1 – 30
2009 – 3576 / day
2010 – 3322 / day
- decrease of 254 cyclists / day (7.1% decrease)

Of course it’s not possible to tell how much of this is weather related. Just as the higher increase in August 2009/2010 might be related to better weather in August 2010, the lower figures in September 2009 / 2010 may be related to a worse weather in September 2010.

[WBC]

New Bike lane in Richmond Connecting Canada Line Bridge to the rest of the Richmond

http://tinyurl.com/26f26yl

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WBC

New Bike lane in Richmond Connecting Canada Line Bridge to the rest of the Richmond

It's about time. Now if only the City of Vancouver could get a decent connector between the north side of the bridge and Cambie, everything would be terrific.

[crazyjoeda]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but for the last few months I have noticed that google has been adding cycle routes to its map of Vancouver starting with the sea wall. This information is only viewable if you are also partially viewing Washington state. It seems the google cycle route services will launch very soon because most of metro Vancouver has now been mapped, other Canadian cities such as Toronto also have cycling information viewable only if the US is partially visible.



I'm looking forward to this service going live!

[degnaw]

Funny how it only works with the US partially visible. Anyhow, it seems to still be missing all of Vancouver and Burnaby's signed bike boulevards, which I hope will be remedied prior to release.

[jetgrey]

seems like wrong section

[officedweller]

Remember that streets are shared use space.

- i.e. bikes are not prohibited from using streets (rules of the road apply) and have just as much right to use them as cars. Think about all of the bikes that ride through the West End or Downtown South streets.

Surely that usage of streets by bikes other than bike lanes represents more than the 0.5% (otherwise cyclists would be required to walk their bikes whenever they exited a bike lane).

If you want to move to exclusive rights-of-way for each type of vehicle, I expect that it would become more difficult for all users - pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles. Mind you, that would certainly free the sidewalks of bikes.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Remember that streets are shared use space.

- i.e. bikes are not prohibited from using streets (rules of the road apply) and have just as much right to use them as cars. Think about all of the bikes that ride through the West End or Downtown South streets.

Surely that usage of streets by bikes other than bike lanes represents more than the 0.5% (otherwise cyclists would be required to walk their bikes whenever they exited a bike lane).

If you want to move to exclusive rights-of-way for each type of vehicle, I expect that it would become more difficult for all users - pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles. Mind you, that would certainly free the sidewalks of bikes.

It isn't so much that cyclist aren't allowed onto the road to share it with other vehicles. It is more of a case that the roads are too busy or too congested to be safe to cycle on.

Cycling down streets line 10th or Windsor or Ontario is fairly safe being that they are only side streets without the high traffic volumes. But when you get onto the main roads it becomes far more dangerous to cycle on. Thus why separated bike lanes are needed. Put it this way would you cycle down Knight Street or Oak or Granville as it is today. Now if they happened to build a bike lane down them (not that I'm saying we should). Would that not make it safer.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cabotp

It isn't so much that cyclist aren't allowed onto the road to share it with other vehicles. It is more of a case that the roads are too busy or too congested to be safe to cycle on.

Cycling down streets line 10th or Windsor or Ontario is fairly safe being that they are only side streets without the high traffic volumes. But when you get onto the main roads it becomes far more dangerous to cycle on. Thus why separated bike lanes are needed. Put it this way would you cycle down Knight Street or Oak or Granville as it is today. Now if they happened to build a bike lane down them (not that I'm saying we should). Would that not make it safer.

I was just commenting on his assertion that there's only 0.5% available for cyclists to ride on, not the reasons for the separated lanes. i.e. he's arguing for 3-4% exclusive right-of-way when the combination of shared right-of-way together with the separated path exclusive right-of-way probably exceeds that figure.

Vehicle lanes are also used by mopeds and motorcycles and like all users on a shared roadway, must drive defensively. Same goes for compact cars driving in a truck's or bus' blind spot. You need to be alert, attentive and vigilent when on the road (regardless of vehicle type).

In that respect, I'm not sure if the City's move away from "de facto" separated bike lanes (in the form of bikeways on quieter streets) outside the downtown (to putting bike lanes on major arterial streets) is a good thing. The first was the painting of bike lanes on Cambie Street. The next is proposed for Kingsway. They seem to be setting up conflict. (and with bike traffic signals at major street crossings, bikeways can be fast to cycle on, without the constant overload of car doors and turning vehicles to watch for, due to much, much higher volumes of traffic).
Downtown, you can't really avoid that.

[golog]

Longer term alleys could be better organized where it's only slow commercial vehicles (doing deliveries at service entrance, picking up trash) or those accessing underground parking entrances, have light controlled crossings of roads synchronized with parallel roads, and make for a great network of bike or bus lanes. You lose virtually no throughput on roads, in fact there would be more road lanes available and fewer vehicles entering or exiting those lanes in the middle of moving traffic. You gain a huge network targeted for traffic faster than pedestrian but slower than cars. Bury the hydro lines, add some lighting, signal the road crossing, and ticket anything blocking the alley.

Bikes, skateboards, rollerblades, segways... imagine the possibilities. I call it the inner city seawall