CHICAGO | Politics and Current Events

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Stockerzzz

Preckiwinkle and four others just promised the following free items:

- Youths and seniors can ride the CTA for free

- Free City College tuition for all

- Spending $25m to reopen mental health clinics



Chicago Tribune

absolutely terrible, there is not enough money for our current government, they all want to expand it?

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by Stockerzzz

The best fix for these communities is two parent households raising children.

You aren't wrong on this, at all. However, just saying that it needs to happen is not a solution. If that is the proposed fix, how do you get there? Those are the ideas we need.

People in these communities (and lots of researchers) would tell you that the War on Drugs, de-industrialization and dis-investment are the drivers of that low number. And that brings us back to square one.

It's also important to acknowledge that this wasn't the case in the 60s. Something happened to these communities that changed the family dynamic.

According to the Census Bureau from 1960 and 2013, African –American children who lived in single-parent homes more than doubled from 22% to 55%. The same research showed that white children from single-parent homes tripled from 7% to 22%.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

This is a fair thought. I am sympathetic to the idea we may need to spend more today to make up for spending so much less in the past (i.e. lead pipes in our poorest neighborhoods). I think your point rests on the assumption that they have actually spent the "usual amount" today and in the past.

Lead water tests are not indicative of the number of lead pipes, but the condition. In fact, the entire city is saturated with lead water lines partly because our nasty labor union infestation mandated we continue using lead water lines well into the 80's for more than a decade after lead was banned nationally in paint. Yet another thing you can thank the soviets running this city for.

And no, government disinvestment is not what caused these areas to decline. Private disinvestment is. Ironically that's what the gentrification debate today is about, "Investments? We don't need no stinking investments!"

The final blow to a lot of these areas (Bronzeville, Washington Park, Garfield Park, Lawndale) was the race riots of the civil rights era where basically the police suppressed protests in white areas and then let them run amok in Black areas where they turned to riots and decided to burn their own business districts to the ground. That basically did in what was a blossoming Black merchant class and left these areas as shells of their former selves.

Originally Posted by Stockerzzz

Preckiwinkle and four others just promised the following free items:

- Youths and seniors can ride the CTA for free

- Free City College tuition for all

- Spending $25m to reopen mental health clinics



Chicago Tribune

Yeah, give the "youths" free CTA access so it's more convenient for them to make it down to Chicago and State where they can flash mob and beat up tourists...

Toni is awful, I'd rather have another Daley...

Originally Posted by moorhosj

You aren't wrong on this, at all. However, just saying that it needs to happen is not a solution. If that is the proposed fix, how do you get there? Those are the ideas we need.

People in these communities (and lots of researchers) would tell you that the War on Drugs, de-industrialization and dis-investment are the drivers of that low number. And that brings us back to square one.

It's also important to acknowledge that this wasn't the case in the 60s. Something happened to these communities that changed the family dynamic.

"According to the Census Bureau from 1960 and 2013, African –American children who lived in single-parent homes more than doubled from 22% to 55%. The same research showed that white children from single-parent homes tripled from 7% to 22%."

There is a theory that the massive program of state welfare targeted particularly at single mothers of African American descent during I believe LBJ (The Great Society?) caused this. In other words, after the handouts started to be based on familial status and not need, the incentive to maintain a nuclear family disappeared. In fact, the more kids you have the more you receive. The Democratic Party, regardless of how we arrived at this situation, has more or less re-enslaved the African American population (and poor in general) of this country as an absolutely beholden voter block that literally cannot stop voting Democrat or risk losing their entire support structure.

Just look at Crook County and Illinois, the same voters have elected Democrat after Democrate despite literally no change in their lot in life. No improvement, for decades. In fact, Berrios, Madigan, the Daleys, et. al. have done nothing, but patronize the African American (and poor population at large). Despite messages of equality and "we are for the poor", all we get is more of the same. In fact, Illinois makes sport of fucking over the poor, just look at the tax racket Berrios and Madigan and Burke have set up. They literally pat the poor on the back with one hand and twist the knife in their kidneys with the other. The fact is that the Democrats long ago stopped actually wanting to help their voters when they realized they had a captive audience who essentially has no hope but to vote for them.

At the end of the day US criminal policy has also had a lot to do with this. Too bad we have a racist in office who hates Black people and would never correct an issue like criminal sentencing reform... Oh wait....

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

There is a theory that the massive program of state welfare targeted particularly at single mothers of African American descent during I believe LBJ (The Great Society?) caused this. In other words, after the handouts started to be based on familial status and not need, the incentive to maintain a nuclear family disappeared. In fact, the more kids you have the more you receive.

Luckily we have actual data to look at which shows the birthrate among black women plummeted from 1960-1990:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Just look at Crook County and Illinois, the same voters have elected Democrat after Democrate despite literally no change in their lot in life. No improvement, for decades. In fact, Berrios, Madigan, the Daleys, et. al. have done nothing, but patronize the African American (and poor population at large).

This is not evidence that voting for a different party would leave these people better off. Texas is heavily Republican and has high uninsured rates, low educational attainment, and high poverty rates. Trying to couch everything as a political talking point doesn't get anyone closer to a solution.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Stockerzzz

There's one topic that could fix the South Side, but no politician is brave enough to say it.

Two parent families.





www.kidscount.org data



The best fix for these communities is two parent households raising children.

Let's fix our criminal justice system so this can happen.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

You know, I had lived for several years on the South Side when I first came to Chicago, and I've found that South Side residents can be very dismissive and obstructive towards change that could actually help their communities.

This is not unique to the South Side or the black community.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

This is not unique to the South Side or the black community.

No, it is not. Most Chicagoans share these traits, but the South Side is under greater pressure to adapt since they do not have a dependable source of migrants who share their background. The other groups in the city do not have that problem, yet, and benefit greatly from the opposing viewpoints of their new neighbors.

But ultimately, whether it is fair or not, the change must come from within, and rejecting change is a sure road to failure.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

Let's fix our criminal justice system so this can happen.

Did you see the sentencing reform bill that was just passed thanks to Jared Kushner of all people? It's not the end all be all, but it's a huge step in the right direction. Finally addresses some of the most egregiously racist policies in this country like the 400X disparity between crack and cocaine setancing guidelines.

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Luckily we have actual data to look at which shows the birthrate among black women plummeted from 1960-1990:

Shockingly the birthrate among a subset of the American population fell in line with the population as a whole in the wake of the WWII baby boom. What a stat!

I'm not talking about African American women as a whole, I'm talking about African American women in highly segregated American (mainly northern) inner city ghettos. It's also worth noting that the effects of a policy aren't instantaneous or overnight. If you say a policy in 1964 caused elevated birth rates and lower nuclear house holds among African Americans in the inner city, you wouldn't expect it to be a giant spike starting in 1964. You would expect it to gradually kick in, or maybe start to show up 10 years later or rear its head at a later date. Unfortunately these causations are nearly impossible to prove or we would have already solved all the world's problems.

At the end of the day, these aren't race related issues, they are poverty related issues. A far bigger predictor of birthrate is income, not race. In fact, it's pretty clear that the reason African Americans have a higher birth rate is that they have a higher poverty rate. It's certainly not because people of African descent are somehow predisposed to having more children.

[Steely Dan]

the easiest path to the middle class:

1. get an education
2. get a career
3. get married
4. make some children (but not too many)
5. stay married

do those five things in that precise order and you'll have like a 95% chance of avoiding a lifetime of poverty.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Shockingly the birthrate among a subset of the American population fell in line with the population as a whole in the wake of the WWII baby boom. What a stat!

To summarize, you have no data to support the theory, but you will stick by it.

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

At the end of the day, these aren't race related issues, they are poverty related issues. A far bigger predictor of birthrate is income, not race. In fact, it's pretty clear that the reason African Americans have a higher birth rate is that they have a higher poverty rate. It's certainly not because people of African descent are somehow predisposed to having more children.

Criminal justice isn't a race related issue either, until you look at the data and see how certain demographics get consistently longer sentences, are tried as adults more frequently, and more frequently detained pretrial.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the easiest path to the middle class:

1. get an education
2. get a career
3. get married
4. make some children (but not too many)
5. stay married

do those five things in that precise order and you'll have like a 95% chance of avoiding a lifetime of poverty.

Obligatory "correlation is not causation" warning.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

It's also important to acknowledge that this wasn't the case in the 60s. Something happened to these communities that changed the family dynamic.

^ Well, what happened were the 60's, when a relatively well-behaved society that respected law, order, and family turned into a bunch of arrogant, self-absorbed assholes (all races) obsessed with pleasure, self-discovery, and blaming their parents for "not being there".

It's America post-1960's. Find a reason to whine, claim victimhood, and feel sorry for yourself, all while trying to maximize pleasure and shirk responsibility--a mindset that one of our two major political parties has latched onto and nursed for the past 50 years.

So yeah, I'm not surprised by all the infidelity

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the easiest path to the middle class:

1. get an education
2. get a career
3. get married
4. make some children (but not too many)
5. stay married

do those five things in that precise order and you'll have like a 95% chance of avoiding a lifetime of poverty.

Basically.

Becoming middle class in America is easy. One of the easiest things to do if you aren't an asshole and you don't have a mental health disorder.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Did you see the sentencing reform bill that was just passed thanks to Jared Kushner of all people? It's not the end all be all, but it's a huge step in the right direction. Finally addresses some of the most egregiously racist policies in this country like the 400X disparity between crack and cocaine setancing guidelines.

The First Step Act is certainly a great first step in a mile long effort.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the easiest path to the middle class:

1. get an education
2. get a career
3. get married
4. make some children (but not too many)
5. stay married

do those five things in that precise order and you'll have like a 95% chance of avoiding a lifetime of poverty.

This isn't being realistic at all.

Yes it'll provide a lesser chance of poverty, but all of those steps are a process within themselves.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

This isn't being realistic at all.

Yes it'll provide a lesser chance of poverty, but all of those steps are a process within themselves.

"Education" doesn't have to mean college.

You can achieve middle class in America with just a high school diploma if you:

1) Stay sober for the most part
2) Are reliable and aren't making excuses all day
3) Get into a stable relationship and don't try to "get your game on" all the time
4) Are willing to work and aren't always feeling sorry for yourself.
5) Don't be a prick who assaults and robs people

Easy as pie.

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

"Education" doesn't have to mean college.

You can achieve middle class in America with just a high school diploma if you:

1) Stay sober for the most part
2) Are reliable and aren't making excuses all day
3) Get into a stable relationship and don't try to "get your game on" all the time
4) Are willing to work and aren't always feeling sorry for yourself.
5) Don't be a prick who assaults and robs people

Easy as pie.

I'm not even gonna argue.

You're fortunate, great, but not many others are. That all Im gonna say.

[Leveled]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the easiest path to the middle class:

1. get an education
2. get a career
3. get married
4. make some children (but not too many)
5. stay married

do those five things in that precise order and you'll have like a 95% chance of avoiding a lifetime of poverty.

Better live in a major metro to guard against layoffs.

And don’t get a major illness.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ChiMIchael

but all of those steps are a process within themselves.

of course they are.

and some will be more or less challenging depending on one's background/upbringing.

but if you follow that basic game-plan, you will radically reduce your chances of getting trapped in the poverty cycle.



few things have improved my lot in life more than getting hitched. overnight, my income went from x to 2x.

granted, that was for two people instead of one, but we we're still just one household (one rent check, one electric bill, one cable bill, etc.).

the multiplier effect of a double income household is ridiculous, but you gotta stay married because divorce undoes all of that, along with being really effing expensive in and of itself.

[the urban politician]

Sodawinkle's lead evaporates in the latest poll:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...-burke-tempest